Book Of Mormon Evidences In Ancient America

[Jash]

People tend to think that the Mark of Cain was a bad thing…I dont think it was.

I, for one, share your opinion. However I am still interested in the Catholic doctrine on exactly what it was. Although I should probably post this as a new thread…

 

[JLFuller]

ROFL! You obviously have been talking to Danny boy himself if you actually think he’s “highly respected”. His ego knows no bounds!

Tell us some of the scholars who think BYU Professor Dr. Daniel C Peterson is not knowledgable. Be honest now - don’t throw in someone we never heard of. I would like to be able to read thier reviews of DCP’s work. I am sure there are other people who read this post who would like to know too. Given you have held yourself up as the “man who knows” clue us in if you will.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

There are certainly scenes from the bible that we could laugh at too and many do laugh at the bible because of the stories inside that book.

There are no stories in bible about futuristic gadgets that only someone in the last 2 centuries would know of.

 

[Dchsknight]

I, for one, share your opinion. However I am still interested in the Catholic doctrine on exactly what it was. Although I should probably post this as a new thread…

I will go make it right now.

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

Here is the problem in a nutshell. True, archaeological sites have been found, but no one and I mean no one can prove that Christ was god or that he performed miracles. The only account that we have is the bible. It takes faith to believe in the bible.

Now in the book of mormon, we do not have much archealogical evidence, but what we do have is a claim that it is a second witness of Christ. The bible being the first. Now just for the sake of argument, suppose evidence is found and it is conclusive that the book of mormon is what it says it is. What do you do? Do you believe that book because of evidence or faith? It would be evidence that would convince you that it is true and that god exists. But the gospel does not work that way. We all live by faith and not evidence because no evidence as conclusively proven that the bible is what it says it is and that god exists.

Ok, then stop telling people to read the BOM so they will get a burning in the bossom. If it’s Faith, you do not need the burning in the bossom. Burning in the bossom = proof Believeing with no strings attached = Faith

 

[JLFuller]

Ok, then stop telling people to read the BOM so they will get a burning in the bossom. If it’s Faith, you do not need the burning in the bossom. Burning in the bossom = proof Believeing with no strings attached = Faith

Burning can mean a sense that something is correct but it goes beyond emotion or an ordinary intuitive feeling. I think most people have had that feeling. some called intuition others said it was a burning sensation. Others said it was more akin to an emotion but it may be just the differences in the way people describe the same event. However one describes it, it is apparantly is enough to convince people of its truth. If it is still unclear follow this link and listen as others tell about how was for them.

 

[Dchsknight]

Burning can mean a sense that something is correct but it goes beyond emotion or an ordinary intuitive feeling. I think most people have had that feeling. some called intuition others said it was a burning sensation. Others said it was more akin to an emotion but it may be just the differences in the way people describe the same event. However one describes it, it is apparantly is enough to convince people of its truth. If it is still unclear follow this link and listen as others tell about how was for them.

About the whole burning in the Bosom thingy… such bunk, because the bible states that the heart is deceitful above all things. Until you are a believer in Jesus Christ every waking moment is evil. Every single thing you do is of the devil. Until Christ Comes in and replaces your evil Nature with the good, by forgiveness and repentance. Also you have to put to Dea.th the evil nature daily. The thought of turn to Christ is in your mind. God is Intelligent and so are we so that is how God pulls us to him, then the emotion comes and our love and hearts are now turned over to Christ and Right and pure emotion can now pour from our once deceitful hearts.

 

[PaulDupre]

Can you support these two statements? Specifically which prophet, exactly what was said, where, and by what record?

“You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race–that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed.”

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African Race? If the White man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so.”

• Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 7:290-291

“It is very clear that the mark which was set upon the descendants of Cain was a skin of blackness…It has been noticed in our day that men who have lost the spirit of the Lord, and from whom His blessings have been withdrawn, have turned dark to such an extent as to excite the comments of all who have known them.”

• The Juvenile Instructor, vol. 26, p. 635

“And after the flood we are told that the curse that had been pronounced upon Cain was continued through Hams’ wife, as he had married a wife of that seed. And why did it pass through the flood? Because it was necessary that the devil should have a representative upon the earth as well as God.”

• John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 22, pg. 304.

“For instance, the descendants of Cain cannot cast off their skin of blackness, at once, and immediately, although every soul of them should repent,…Cain and his posterity must wear the mark which God put upon them; and his white friends may wash the race of Cain with fuller’s soap every day, they cannot wash away God’s mark.”

• Millennial Star, Vol. 14, pg. 418.

“Not only was Cain called upon to suffer [for killing Abel], but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. . . . Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with a black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fulness of the blessing of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain.”

• The Way to Perfection, by Joseph Fielding Smith, p. 101, Genealogical Society of Utah, 1935

That is just a tiny sample of the racist thinking that has pervaded all of Mormonism since the beginning.

I already posted the LDS “scriptures” above.

Also what do Catholics believe about the mark of Cain? What sort of mark did the Lord set Cain to separate him from other men “lest any finding him should kill him.”

The scriptures are silent on the matter, so we do not know, nor do we care. We are not concerned with matters of race. There are no divisions in Christ.

 

[JLFuller]

About the whole burning in the Bosom thingy… such bunk, because the bible states that the heart is deceitful above all things. Until you are a believer in Jesus Christ every waking moment is evil. Every single thing you do is of the devil. Until Christ Comes in and replaces your evil Nature with the good, by forgiveness and repentance. Also you have to put to Dea.th the evil nature daily. The thought of turn to Christ is in your mind. God is Intelligent and so are we so that is how God pulls us to him, then the emotion comes and our love and hearts are now turned over to Christ and Right and pure emotion can now pour from our once deceitful hearts.

Here is a guy who had that expereince. It is a bit different than mine. Click on the man.

“And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost?” This is the promise to those who read the Book of Mormon. Moroni 10:4 That is how you know. You pray and ask.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca you know very well that that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

You know very well that it does.

That subject has been hashed in many other places.

I don’t think so. Doctrine, yes. How mormons determine a prophet is really a prophet, no.

All I see is that someone told you so, and you believe it.

 

[Eternaly_Secure]

Ricko
Let me ask you a question. Have you ever read the Book of Mormon? I mean really read it? By read I mean every word from the cover to cover and then asked God to tell you if it was true, having faith in God that He would tell you? That is the difference Rick. We don’t ask people to believe just us. We say to put it to the test.

For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

Why do you believe anything extra Biblical, even more so when it goes against the teachings of the Bible, surely that is God’s answer to you.
Please wake up, you are being deceived.

 

[Jerusha]

I have read the Book of Mormon many times. The last time, I read it while translating it into plain and simple English. I have received a personal witness that the BOM ranges from the sublime to the ridiculous to the Satanic. :frighten:
I’m sorry, but that is what I got out of it. :imsorry:

 

[Jash]

That is just a tiny sample of the racist thinking that has pervaded all of Mormonism since the beginning.

I already posted the LDS “scriptures” above.

The scriptures are silent on the matter, so we do not know, nor do we care. We are not concerned with matters of race. There are no divisions in Christ.

In other words you don’t know. I can understand that. There is a lot we don’t know either. Tell me about this “Journal of Discourses” Where did it come from? Who put it together? Do you know?

(btw: Journal of Discourses is nowhere listed as LDS scripture.)

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

The fifth century church is not the same as the first century church. There were a few early Church fathers who realized what was happening as it was taking place and commented on it. Read Dr. Ehrman’s book Misquoting Jesus.

if you believe, or go by what this guy says, than I don’t even know why you defend Mormonism. This guy is very anti-christian and anti-faith

**

Is There Historical Evidence for the Resurrection of Jesus?

A Debate between William Lane Craig and Bart D. Ehrman

College of the Holy Cross, Worcester, Massachusetts
**

March 28, 2006
Copyright 2006 William Lane Craig and Bart D. Ehrman. All Rights Reserved

Dr. Ehrman’s First Rebuttal

Thank you, Bill, for that impressive refutation! I do have to tell you that if you think I’m going to

change my mind because you have mathematical proof for the existence of God, I’m sorry, but it
ain’t gonna happen! So I’m sorry I have only twelve minutes for refutation; I need about three
hours, as I imagine Bill does, too.
Let me say again that I respect Bill’s personal belief that Jesus was raised from the dead, but I
find that his claim that this can be historically proven to be dead wrong. I’m going to break my
response down into four dubious aspects of Bill’s presentation, giving examples instead of trying
to be exhaustive to cover the waterfront.

 

[Jash]

You know very well that it does.

I don’t think so. Doctrine, yes. How mormons determine a prophet is really a prophet, no.

All I see is that someone told you so, and you believe it.

I know very well that how LDS determine whether or not a prophet is a prophet has everything to do with Archeological evidences of the Book of Mormon in the Americas?



As for the question itself though. I know in the same way most people know who are truly sincere about their religion. Through personal study and prayer to God. I imagine that is why you believe in Catholicism? Or is it because history, logic, or your friend told you it was true?

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

Burning can mean a sense that something is correct but it goes beyond emotion or an ordinary intuitive feeling. I think most people have had that feeling. some called intuition others said it was a burning sensation. Others said it was more akin to an emotion but it may be just the differences in the way people describe the same event. However one describes it, it is apparantly is enough to convince people of its truth. If it is still unclear follow this link and listen as others tell about how was for them.

Ok, so your telling me that a burning in the bossom (im guessing it is that tingly feeling you get in your chest) is for the good? Well, I don’t believe that. When I kissed my ex-boyfriend for the first time, I had a big time “burning in the bossom”!! And i promise you, it was not meant to be for us! God led me to my husband who I love more than any other person I have had in my life! But, I never got that feeling with him until about 5 years into our relationship. It was a gradual love. Could I have been wrong about the first time I had that feeling? Yes, I do believe my heart misguided me. The second time my heart guided me in the right direction ( I hope…LOL). What I am trying to say is the heart can be deceitful!

 

[Jash]

Ok, so your telling me that a burning in the bossom (im guessing it is that tingly feeling you get in your chest) is for the good? Well, I don’t believe that. When I kissed my ex-boyfriend for the first time, I had a big time “burning in the bossom”!!

LOL. Yes there is that burning of the bossom too but the one LDS experience is unique and not always the same from individual to individual. It’s a hard feeling to describe so within the LDS culture is has come to be known as a “burning in the bosom.” Frankly describing what its like is like trying to describe the taste of salt. There’s no truly adequate way to describe it until you have actually tasted it.

But let me ask you something. Think about how you felt the first time you looked into a newborns eyes or perhaps were held in the arms of someone who truly loved you. Have you ever felt something like that outside of those experiences? When? What was happening?

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

I have read the Book of Mormon many times. The last time, I read it while translating it into plain and simple English. I have received a personal witness that the BOM ranges from the sublime to the ridiculous to the Satanic. :frighten:
I’m sorry, but that is what I got out of it. :imsorry:

.
Satanic is right! Their Nauvoo Temple has pentagrams all over it!!! Not only are there pentagrams, they are upside down pentagrams!!! They don’t see this demonic sublime message because they really believe what their “prophets” tell them, and of course they always mention the fact that their Church has Jesus Christ’s name in the title! Well, I am here to tell you that the wolf will come in sheeps clothing, and boy did he!

 

[Eternaly_Secure]

LOL. Yes there is that burning of the bossom too but the one LDS experience is unique and not always the same from individual to individual. It’s a hard feeling to describe so within the LDS culture is has come to be known as a “burning in the bosom.” Frankly describing what its like is like trying to describe the taste of salt. There’s no truly adequate way to describe it until you have actually tasted it.

But let me ask you something. Think about how you felt the first time you looked into a newborns eyes or perhaps were held in the arms of someone who truly loved you. Have you ever felt something like that outside of those experiences? When? What was happening?

That feeling you are describing could be either heartburn, or an evil spirit giving you a nice, fuzzy, oh so charasmatic false feeling to trick you into believing that it’s God’s love.
The Bible does not agree with the book of mormon and that should be enough for you.
God is not the author of confusion.

 

[Jash]

That feeling you are describing could be either heartburn, or an evil spirit giving you a nice, fuzzy, oh so charasmatic false feeling to trick you into believing that it’s God’s love.

You feel all that when looking into a newborn’s eyes? Wow! That’s scary!

The Bible does not agree with the book of mormon and that should be enough for you.

I agree to disagree. I have read and compared teachings of the two books. Their teachings coincide quite nicely for me.

God is not the author of confusion.

Agreed. He is not. The Nicene Council on the other hand…