Book Of Mormon Evidences In Ancient America

[LDSGuy]

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Satanic is right! Their Nauvoo Temple has pentagrams all over it!!! Not only are there pentagrams, they are upside down pentagrams!!! They don’t see this demonic sublime message because they really believe what their “prophets” tell them, and of course they always mention the fact that their Church has Jesus Christ’s name in the title! Well, I am here to tell you that the wolf will come in sheeps clothing, and boy did he!

Did you know that traditional Christianity has used the pentagram as a Christian symbol? Did you know that the swastika was taken from Hinduism? Does that make Hindus nazi’s? And what of the Christianization of some Pagan/Celtic deities? Symbolism is not interpreted at face value.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Did you know that traditional Christianity has used the pentagram as a Christian symbol? Did you know that the swastika was taken from Hinduism? Does that make Hindus nazi’s? And what of the Christianization of some Pagan/Celtic deities? Symbolism is not interpreted at face value.

Did you know that JS dabbled in the occult? Scrying with stones sound familiar? How about the Jupiter talisman he carried in his pocket?

There is no other deity in Christianity but the One Triune God. So, please show us these pagan deities that have been Christianized.

 

[LDSGuy]

Did you know that JS dabbled in the occult? Scrying with stones sound familiar? How about the Jupiter talisman he carried in his pocket?

There is no other deity in Christianity but the One Triune God. So, please show us these pagan deities that have been Christianized.

Agreed. However Saint Brigid is a prime example of this. Also, it is well known that at various times pagan traditions were adopted into Christianity to make the “transition” from Pagan to Christian easier, and to find new meaning in those traditions.

 

[BartBurk]

To all of those who are wondering why we left the Mormon Church and became Catholic: it’s very simple. We left because we learned the Mormon Church was not what it claimed to be. In my case I left because I discovered the Book of Mormon was not an ancient text. It was easy to see this once I opened my eyes to the truth. I resigned a couple of years ago under pressure from the LDS Bishop because I had joined the Catholic Church. I probably would have just let it ride if I hadn’t have been pressured to leave, but it’s nicer to be out. I’m just glad I discovered the Catholic Church was true instead of become atheistic like so many ex-Mormons do.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Agreed. However Saint Brigid is a prime example of this. Also, it is well known that at various times pagan traditions were adopted into Christianity to make the “transition” from Pagan to Christian easier, and to find new meaning in those traditions.

The Church does not force people to give up their cultures. People, including their cultures are brought to Christ. What pagan traditions do you believe we practice?

St. Brigid is not a Christian deity.

 

[RebeccaJ]

To all of those who are wondering why we left the Mormon Church and became Catholic: it’s very simple. We left because we learned the Mormon Church was not what it claimed to be. In my case I left because I discovered the Book of Mormon was not an ancient text. It was easy to see this once I opened my eyes to the truth. I resigned a couple of years ago under pressure from the LDS Bishop because I had joined the Catholic Church. I probably would have just let it ride if I hadn’t have been pressured to leave, but it’s nicer to be out. I’m just glad I discovered the Catholic Church was true instead of become atheistic like so many ex-Mormons do.

Our LDS visitors can’t seem to grasp that we saw through the deception.

 

[LDSGuy]

The Church does not force people to give up their cultures. People, including their cultures are brought to Christ. What pagan traditions do you believe we practice?

St. Brigid is not a Christian deity.

As implied by my “agreed” in my previous post, I agree that she isn’t a Christian deity, as I never claimed that she was a Christian deity.

Easter eggs and Christmas trees are big ones.

 

[LDSGuy]

Our LDS visitors can’t seem to grasp that we saw through the deception.

This actually goes both ways For every ex-Mormon/how to leave the LDS Church website someone posts, someone can also post the same for the Catholic Church. We both see those websites as being based on fundamental misunderstandings.

 

[RebeccaJ]

As implied by my “agreed” in my previous post, I agree that she isn’t a Christian deity, as I never claimed that she was a Christian deity.

Easter eggs and Christmas trees are big ones.

We see no problem in giving all we have to God. Including old traditions.

 

[LDSGuy]

We see no problem in giving all we have to God. Including old traditions.

ok My original point was in reference to claims that because of pentagrams on the Nauvoo temple, the temple is therefore Satanic. Just because a symbol is/was used by a group does not make it exclusively the property of that group, or that there is only one acceptable theology for a symbol. I agree with you.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This actually goes both ways For every ex-Mormon/how to leave the LDS Church website someone posts, someone can also post the same for the Catholic Church. We both see those websites as being based on fundamental misunderstandings.

That was just a website that help people leave, who want to leave. ParkerD says he doesn’t want Paul back. So why would you care that these sites exist at all?

Catholics view those who have wandered away from home differently than Mormons view us. We view them as Catholic, still, and pray for their return. Some find their way back home. We are all very glad that He led us out of the fog and into the light.

Yes, there is much misunderstanding about Catholicism. Mormons have turned those misunderstandings into doctrine.

 

[BartBurk]

This actually goes both ways For every ex-Mormon/how to leave the LDS Church website someone posts, someone can also post the same for the Catholic Church. We both see those websites as being based on fundamental misunderstandings.

I’ll grant you that. My wife is an ex-Catholic. My son’s father-in-law and mother-in-law are both ex-Catholics. They all left because they rejected the Catholic teaching on the Trinity even as Catholic teenagers. The difference is they left because they rejected a doctrine. I did not leave Mormonism because of its doctrines. I left because it was easy to show that Joseph Smith was a bald-faced liar with regards to the foundation of the LDS Church whether talking about the First Vision or the Book of Mormon.

 

[PaulDupre]

Were you excommunicated?

I had my name removed from the records. It wasn’t as easy to do that in 1986 as it is now. Simple name-removal, as opposed to getting yourself ex’d, was a fairly new thing at that time. I was active and temple-worthy right up to the day my wife and I wrote a letter to my bishop outlining what we had discovered and asking that our names be taken off the records of the church. Needless to say he was very surprised, since neither of us had given any previous indication that we had difficulties with LDS history or doctrine.

The stake president wanted to hold a church court on us for apostacy. I told him and the bishop that we no longer recognized his authority to subject us to any form of discipline since we were no longer members of the church by our own declaration, and demanded that he process our name removal immediately and not say anything about excommunication or we would bring a lawsuit against him and the church.

The stake president agreed to this and about 6 weeks later we each got a very official letter (hand delivered by someone from the stake presidency) informing us that our names had been removed from the records, all our temple blessings canceled etc.

A few years later, one of my wife’s relatives who worked at the COB pulled up my- and my wife’s records (apparently they still keep a file on you even after they remove you from the membership rolls). It says we were excommunicated for apostasy. So apparently the stake pres and the bishop lied to me, tried us in absentia and excommunicated us.

I hope it makes them feel better.

 

[JLFuller]

I had my name removed from the records. It wasn’t as easy to do that in 1986 as it is now. Simple name-removal, as opposed to getting yourself ex’d, was a fairly new thing at that time. I was active and temple-worthy right up to the day my wife and I wrote a letter to my bishop outlining what we had discovered and asking that our names be taken off the records of the church. Needless to say he was very surprised, since neither of us had given any previous indication that we had difficulties with LDS history or doctrine.

The stake president wanted to hold a church court on us for apostacy. I told him and the bishop that we no longer recognized his authority to subject us to any form of discipline since we were no longer members of the church by our own declaration, and demanded that he process our name removal immediately and not say anything about excommunication or we would bring a lawsuit against him and the church.

The stake president agreed to this and about 6 weeks later we each got a very official letter (hand delivered by someone from the stake presidency) informing us that our names had been removed from the records, all our temple blessings canceled etc.

A few years later, one of my wife’s relatives who worked at the COB pulled up my- and my wife’s records (apparently they still keep a file on you even after they remove you from the membership rolls). It says we were excommunicated for apostasy. So apparently the stake pres and the bishop lied to me, tried us in absentia and excommunicated us.

I hope it makes them feel better.

I can see now why you are so bitter. If I can, may I suggest that the bitterness just makes it harder on you and yours and that it really works if you forgive the SP. There is no way you can ever get even. Trying just adds stress to you and your family.

The practice is now changed so those who just want to leave the church can without being ex’d. The excommunication for apostasy still is accurate though but it doesn’t erase the social stigma attached. Usually child abusers, those who abandon thier families, adulterers and sex offenders get ex’d. There are some who get it for other reasons but those I think are the big ones. Being lumped in with them would make me angry too. Not only do you have to defend your actions but you have to work hard at not being colored as a danger to the community.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I can see now why you are so bitter. If I can, may I suggest that the bitterness just makes it harder on you and yours and that it really works if you forgive the SP. There is no way you can ever get even. Trying just adds stress to you and your family.

I don’t see much if any bitterness from Paul. But I have noticed over on MAAD that bitterness is seen in all who leave the LDS church.

The practice is now changed so those who just want to leave the church can without being ex’d. The excommunication for apostasy still is accurate though but it doesn’t erase the social stigma attached. Usually child abusers, those who abandon thier families, adulterers and sex offenders get ex’d. There are some who get it for other reasons but those I think are the big ones. Being lumped in with them would make me angry too. Not only do you have to defend your actions but you have to work hard at not being colored as a danger to the community.

But not those who obtain an abortion.

 

[Jerusha]

work hard at not being colored as a danger to the community

Nice pious words for someone who has not been a victim of persecution by Mormons. It is impossible, once branded as a danger to the LDS community, to live an adequately virtuous life. Particularly when one has no idea why. The wagging tongues will make up whatever lies they can, to justify what they are doing.

Please take care not to set me off any more. Like they say, this is the core of the matter.

And all the responsibility is not on the victim. The responsibility weighs heavily on that LDS community and the LDS church as a whole.

 

[JLFuller]

I don’t see much if any bitterness from Paul. But I have noticed over on MAAD that bitterness is seen in all who leave the LDS church.

But not those who obtain an abortion.

Could be. I have never heard of it though. My information comes from carrying a caselaod for 25 years. People being ex’d for abortion would not necessarilly be handed over to me. Child molseters, abusers, thieves were. I don’t know what the Church;'s numbers are but extrapolating from the numbers I know of, the four things listed were the most common reasons among the people I supervised. It is hard to know exactly but my *guess *is that they represent more than half of the causes. Maybe quite a bit more. It would be an interesting study.

 

[JLFuller]

Nice pious words for someone who has not been a victim of persecution by Mormons. It is impossible, once branded as a danger to the LDS community, to live an adequately virtuous life. Particularly when one has no idea why. The wagging tongues will make up whatever lies they can, to justify what they are doing.

Please take care not to set me off any more. Like they say, this is the core of the matter.

And all the responsibility is not on the victim. The responsibility weighs heavily on that LDS community and the LDS church as a whole.

You are correct. Mormons are no different than anyone else when it comes to being lax with other people’s reputations. I notice that almost all of the anti-Mormon comments are attacks on someone’s charachter.

 

[JLFuller]

I don’t see much if any bitterness from Paul. But I have noticed over on MAAD that bitterness is seen in all who leave the LDS church.
But not those who obtain an abortion.

Zaff
You are correct. We don’t treat former members with the same respect we treat current members but we should. It is something I work hard at but fall short of.

 

[Jerusha]

:banghead: I said be careful.

I can only excuse you by saying that you have no idea what kind of experience I am talking about or who I am.

Ignorance is a real good defense. I know-- I lived in denial for many years. If only I had not been terrorized into such a state.