Book of Mormon

[e_c]

Is there ANY reason why a Catholic could not believe that the Book of Mormon was non-fiction? I don’t know if there are any “Mormon” teachings in it. It does not sound out of character to have had someone be called to take writings to the Americas. It does not sound out of character to have Christ visit other “sheep” after his resurrection. Thus, I am ONLY asking if believing that the Book of Mormon is possibly “historical writings” is OK…not against Catholic Church teachings. I am a practicing Roman Catholic and have absolutely no intentions of becoming Mormon. Half my family is Mormon and I am trying to understand them best I can. I don’t believe in a Great Apostasy occurring following the death of the disciples and thus, don’t believe that Joseph Smith was handed the Keys. However, I am not sure I have to believe that to think the Book of Mormon might be non-fiction…Thank you for your time.

If Jesus went to America (in the way the BOM says, not merely in dreams or private revelations), it would mean that Mormonism is true and Catholicism is not. So no, you can’t say that basically any part of it is “non-fiction” and still remain a Catholic.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

To believe in the book of Mormon is to believe in the man who ‘translated’ it by putting his head into a hat and reading what he saw. It requires the person to believe that Joseph Smith was a genuine prophet and if he were genuine then Christianity as it has stood for 2000 years is false.

 

[PJM]

Is there ANY reason why a Catholic could not believe that the Book of Mormon was non-fiction? I don’t know if there are any “Mormon” teachings in it. It does not sound out of character to have had someone be called to take writings to the Americas. It does not sound out of character to have Christ visit other “sheep” after his resurrection. Thus, I am ONLY asking if believing that the Book of Mormon is possibly “historical writings” is OK…not against Catholic Church teachings. I am a practicing Roman Catholic and have absolutely no intentions of becoming Mormon. Half my family is Mormon and I am trying to understand them best I can. I don’t believe in a Great Apostasy occurring following the death of the disciples and thus, don’t believe that Joseph Smith was handed the Keys. However, I am not sure I have to believe that to think the Book of Mormon might be non-fiction…Thank you for your time.

WELL

How about the facts that

1 It’s not based on facts {its subjective; NOT objective}

1. It was authored to compete WITH GODS Bible:shrug:

Even GOD can only Have one set of faith beliefs and one true Church. Amen!

 

[Chris-WA]

Yes, as a practicing Catholic it would be contrary to your faith to accept the BoM as anything but fiction. Many others have given very good reasons for this in previous posts. I would simply add that you cannot separate the BoM from Joseph Smith. If the BoM is true, then he was a true prophet and therefore the Catholic Church (and all other churches) would be an apostate church just as Joseph claimed. Fortunately for you, Joseph Smith was a fraud who wrote a fictional BoM that has no basis in historical fact aside from the parts he lifted right from the King James Bible. There were were no Nephites or Lamanites or any other “ites” that migrated to North America from Jerusalem. Jesus did not come to America and establish a parallel church in the New World. If you want to know the true origins of the BoM, I suggest you start by viewing this talk by LDS historian Grant Palmer:

youtube.com/watch?v=kHsvZooc4Bc

His book, An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins, goes into more depth on this very subject and others which I’m sure you would find fascinating.

One more source I would recommend is this one put together by a man named Jeremy Runnells, who was a believing Mormon who found out the truth through his own studies and was eventually excommunicated for making it public.

cesletter.com/

Bottom line: The more you learn about early Mormon history (and Joseph Smith in particular), the more you realize he was a conman who started a false religion. Read the above sources and you will be more educated on Mormon history than any of your LDS family or friends whom I assure you are mostly unaware of the truth.

 

[Tarquin]

…If the BoM is true, then he was a true prophet …

Mormons claim as much, but it does not follow logically. Many people write books. Even when the book is totally accurate, the person who wrote it has no claim - by virtue of having written it - other than that of being an author. I cannot say, I wrote a true book about France, therefore I am a Frenchman, or I wrote a true book about Mars, therefore I am a Martian, or I merely *“translated” *a book about an ancient chosen people with whom God worked, and therefore I am ancient, or chosen, or a prophet, or an historian, or God.

Besides, Smith claimed to have translated the book, not written it. At best that would make him merely a “translator.” Unless he did not do the actual translation work by himself. For example, if someone did it for him or helped him by providing a sort of dictionary and a line for line translation, then he would not even qualify as a proper translator, merely a copyist!

In responding to various criticisms, many Mormons stress that the Book of Mormon is “history.” Does that make Joseph Smith an historian? No, because the book was not produced by research or any method used by historians, and Joseph had no control (allegedly) over what was being written. It is also called “a second witness of Christ.” That does not make Joseph Smith a witness of Christ. (Something else could, but not that.)

From another angle, the qualifications for prophethood is not the writing of a book. Jesus wrote no book. We know few if any books written by the Christian prophets about whom the Apostles had written. The calling of a prophet of God requires character traits, and produces activities other than dictating something to be written. Smith neither wrote nor translated the book, but dictated it to others who did the writing. So the Book of Mormon does not prove the Smith was a translator, historian, or prophet, only that he was a dictator.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

But we know Christ never came to the Americas. No one was called at the time of Christ to bring writings to the America. The truth is the BoM is not a historical text, it is a work of fiction. There are several verses in the bible about this very thing, false prophets and all. I’m in a bit of hurry this morning so I can’t look them up right now. I may be able to this afternoon.

Apologies for hijacking this thread but Horton, I would be interested to see those verses? Also how do we know Christ didn’t go to America?

 

[Horton]

Apologies for hijacking this thread but Horton, I would be interested to see those verses? Also how do we know Christ didn’t go to America?

I’ll post some verses below but will answer your last question first. We know Jesus Christ did not come to America after the resurrection and before the ascension because there are the four Gospels that talk about Jesus Christ’s time on earth. There is also logistics. There is no way anyone could have traveled from the middle east, from Jerusalem, to America and be back in the short period of time between the resurrection and ascension. Using logic and reasoning it just doesn’t fly. Reading the New Testament should be helpful but I would suggest using a non-LDS bible, and if it makes you feel better don’t use a Catholic one either.

The verses are below. I also provided a link to the USCCB site where I copied the verses. Let me know what you think.

*2 Peter 2:1-3
False Teachers.
1 There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.
3 In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destruction does not sleep.
*

*Matthew 7:15-20
False Prophets.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16 l By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So by their fruits you will know them.
*

*Colossians 2:4-8

A General Admonition.
4 I say this so that no one may deceive you by specious arguments.
5 For even if I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing as I observe your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
6 So, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
7 rooted in him and built upon him and established in the faith as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8 See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world* and not according to Christ.
*

*1 John 4:1-6
Testing the Spirits.
1Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4 You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.
*Matthew 24: 3-14

The Beginning of Calamities.
3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus said to them in reply, “See that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.
6 You will hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not alarmed, for these things must happen, but it will not yet be the end.
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be famines and earthquakes from place to place.
8 All these are the beginning of the labor pains.
9 Then they will hand you over to persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name.
10 And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another.
11 Many false prophets will arise and deceive many;
12 and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come
*
All from this link usccb.org/search.cfm?site=newusccb&proxystylesheet=newusccb_frontend&q=false+prophets&lang=eng

 

[superwimp]

Apologies for hijacking this thread but Horton, I would be interested to see those verses? Also how do we know Christ didn’t go to America?

Regardless of the subject it's impossible to disprove an event didn't happen. We can only use logic. I could claim I went to China and you would be unable to prove I didn't. Suppose he did come to America and visited all of the various tribes. Then why wouldn't he also go to China, Rome, Persia, Australia, Hawaii, and Japan. The BOM claims certain events happened in America prior to and during his stay. The Incas made to mention of these events and no other civilizations recorded any similar events.

 

[Truth_Faith13]

I’ll post some verses below but will answer your last question first. We know Jesus Christ did not come to America after the resurrection and before the ascension because there are the four Gospels that talk about Jesus Christ’s time on earth. There is also logistics. There is no way anyone could have traveled from the middle east, from Jerusalem, to America and be back in the short period of time between the resurrection and ascension. Using logic and reasoning it just doesn’t fly. Reading the New Testament should be helpful but I would suggest using a non-LDS bible, and if it makes you feel better don’t use a Catholic one either.

The verses are below. I also provided a link to the USCCB site where I copied the verses. Let me know what you think.

*2 Peter 2:1-3
False Teachers.
1 There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.
3 In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destruction does not sleep.
*

*Matthew 7:15-20
False Prophets.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16 l By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So by their fruits you will know them.
*

*Colossians 2:4-8

A General Admonition.
4 I say this so that no one may deceive you by specious arguments.
5 For even if I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing as I observe your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ.
6 So, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
7 rooted in him and built upon him and established in the faith as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving.
8 See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world* and not according to Christ.
*

*1 John 4:1-6
Testing the Spirits.
1Beloved, do not trust every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh belongs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4 You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.
*Matthew 24: 3-14

The Beginning of Calamities.
3 As he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and said, “Tell us, when will this happen, and what sign will there be of your coming, and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus said to them in reply, “See that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.
6 You will hear of wars and reports of wars; see that you are not alarmed, for these things must happen, but it will not yet be the end.
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be famines and earthquakes from place to place.
8 All these are the beginning of the labor pains.
9 Then they will hand you over to persecution, and they will kill you. You will be hated by all nations because of my name.
10 And then many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another.
11 Many false prophets will arise and deceive many;
12 and because of the increase of evildoing, the love of many will grow cold.
13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the world as a witness to all nations, and then the end will come
*
All from this link usccb.org/search.cfm?site=newusccb&proxystylesheet=newusccb_frontend&q=false+prophets&lang=eng

Thank-you Horton, just to put my critical hat on for a moment. You mention about it being impossible to travel to America and back to the middle east? However most would say its impossible to die and 3 days later rise again. My point is surely for the Son of God anything is possible? I really must re-read the gospels as it has been a while, but after the resurrection, did Christ appear to them as spirit or as a man? fully in the flesh?

To this verse: Matthew 7:15-20
False Prophets.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16 l By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So by their fruits you will know them.

Surely if most LDS I have met are wholesome, good people, surely this verse would mean that the tree they stem from is good?

 

[Horton]

Thank-you Horton, just to put my critical hat on for a moment. You mention about it being impossible to travel to America and back to the middle east? However most would say its impossible to die and 3 days later rise again. My point is surely for the Son of God anything is possible? I really must re-read the gospels as it has been a while, but after the resurrection, did Christ appear to them as spirit or as a man? fully in the flesh?

To this verse: Matthew 7:15-20
False Prophets.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16 l By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So by their fruits you will know them.

Surely if most LDS I have met are wholesome, good people, surely this verse would mean that the tree they stem from is good?

I know this is a verse used often by the LDS to make the claim that since they are “good fruits” they can’t be of a false prophet. I am in no way saying that all LDS people are bad fruit. I know many LDS people, went to college in Utah, and lived and worked in LDS communities. I don’t believe the people of the LDS church are the bad fruits, but the theology behind the church is. In chapters 5, 6, & 7 Matthew is relaying the Sermon on the Mount. So to put the verses about in perspective you have to read all three chapters. Jesus is teaching the people how to live a Christian life.

Most would say it’s impossible for a man to die and then rise again three days later. But there are writings, the four gospels, saying it did happen. There is nothing that indicates He went to America, no documentation, no mention in any of the New Testament, nothing. Sure he is Jesus Christ and could have miraculously appeared in America, but there is nothing in any of the four gospels that He did.

Yes Jesus did rise from the dead and was more than spirit. After all Thomas had to touch the wounds of Jesus to believe it really was him.

 

[gazelam]

I know this is a verse used often by the LDS to make the claim that since they are “good fruits” they can’t be of a false prophet. I am in no way saying that all LDS people are bad fruit. I know many LDS people, went to college in Utah, and lived and worked in LDS communities. I don’t believe the people of the LDS church are the bad fruits, but the theology behind the church is. In chapters 5, 6, & 7 Matthew is relaying the Sermon on the Mount. So to put the verses about in perspective you have to read all three chapters. Jesus is teaching the people how to live a Christian life.

Most would say it’s impossible for a man to die and then rise again three days later. But there are writings, the four gospels, saying it did happen. There is nothing that indicates He went to America, no documentation, no mention in any of the New Testament, nothing. Sure he is Jesus Christ and could have miraculously appeared in America, but there is nothing in any of the four gospels that He did.

Yes Jesus did rise from the dead and was more than spirit. After all Thomas had to touch the wounds of Jesus to believe it really was him.

LDS believe that John 10:16 points to the Saviors visit to the Americas.

I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.

3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon confirms that the “other sheep” were those of the house of Israel in the Americas

3 Nephi 15:21, 22 *And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their [the 12 Apostles] preaching.*

LDS believe that Psalms 85:11 refers to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants

Truth shall spring out of the earth [Book of Mormon]; and righteousness shall look down from heaven [Doctrine and Covenants]. (KJV)

Isaiah 29:11, 12 tells of a very specific incident about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon

*11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.* (KJV)

Regarding Isaiah 29:11, 12, Joseph Smith related this story about Martin Harris found in Joseph Smith - History verses 63-65:

63 Sometime in this month of February, the aforementioned Mr. Martin Harris came to our place, got the characters which I had drawn off the plates, and started with them to the city of New York. For what took place relative to him and the characters, I refer to his own account of the circumstances, as he related them to me after his return, which was as follows:

64 “I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated, and he said that they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters. He gave me a certificate, certifying to the people of Palmyra that they were true characters, and that the translation of such of them as had been translated was also correct. I took the certificate and put it into my pocket, and was just leaving the house, when Mr. Anthon called me back, and asked me how the young man found out that there were gold plates in the place where he found them. I answered that an angel of God had revealed it unto him.

65 “He then said to me, ‘Let me see that certificate.’ I accordingly took it out of my pocket and gave it to him, when he took it and tore it to pieces, saying that there was no such thing now as ministering of angels, and that if I would bring the plates to him he would translate them. I informed him that part of the plates were sealed, and that I was forbidden to bring them. He replied, ‘I cannot read a sealed book.’ I left him and went to Dr. Mitchell, who sanctioned what Professor Anthon had said respecting both the characters and the translation.”

I hope this helps…

 

[superwimp]

To this verse: Matthew 7:15-20
False Prophets.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16 l By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 So by their fruits you will know them.

Surely if most LDS I have met are wholesome, good people, surely this verse would mean that the tree they stem from is good?

Hello truth faith,

    What fruit do you want to produce?  For me it's critical thinking.  Neither the Catholic or LDS church (or any non reincarnation group) are conducive to improving my critical thinking skills, therefore, neither of them are for me.  Determine what fruit you want to produce and go for it.

 

[Jerusha]

Determine what fruit you want to produce and go for it.

Galatians 5:22-23New International Version (NIV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

No denomination has a monopoly on the above, but some have more. Obviously, because of our fallen human nature, we cannot produce such fruits without faith in God. No person can do it through mere perspiration.

 

[Horton]

LDS believe that John 10:16 points to the Saviors visit to the Americas.

I have other sheep that do not belong to this fold. These also I must lead, and they will hear my voice, and there will be one flock, one shepherd.

3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon confirms that the “other sheep” were those of the house of Israel in the Americas

3 Nephi 15:21, 22 *And verily I say unto you, that ye are they of whom I said: Other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

And they understood me not, for they supposed it had been the Gentiles; for they understood not that the Gentiles should be converted through their [the 12 Apostles] preaching.*

LDS believe that Psalms 85:11 refers to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants

Truth shall spring out of the earth [Book of Mormon]; and righteousness shall look down from heaven [Doctrine and Covenants]. (KJV)

Isaiah 29:11, 12 tells of a very specific incident about the coming forth of the Book of Mormon

*11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.* (KJV)

Regarding Isaiah 29:11, 12, Joseph Smith related this story about Martin Harris found in Joseph Smith - History verses 63-65:

63 Sometime in this month of February, the aforementioned Mr. Martin Harris came to our place, got the characters which I had drawn off the plates, and started with them to the city of New York. For what took place relative to him and the characters, I refer to his own account of the circumstances, as he related them to me after his return, which was as follows:

64 “I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated, and he said that they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters. He gave me a certificate, certifying to the people of Palmyra that they were true characters, and that the translation of such of them as had been translated was also correct. I took the certificate and put it into my pocket, and was just leaving the house, when Mr. Anthon called me back, and asked me how the young man found out that there were gold plates in the place where he found them. I answered that an angel of God had revealed it unto him.

65 “He then said to me, ‘Let me see that certificate.’ I accordingly took it out of my pocket and gave it to him, when he took it and tore it to pieces, saying that there was no such thing now as ministering of angels, and that if I would bring the plates to him he would translate them. I informed him that part of the plates were sealed, and that I was forbidden to bring them. He replied, ‘I cannot read a sealed book.’ I left him and went to Dr. Mitchell, who sanctioned what Professor Anthon had said respecting both the characters and the translation.”

I hope this helps…

It doesn’t really

 

[zaffiroborant]

It doesn’t really

I agree the whole thing is a mess and makes no sense. Best I can tell Harris took drawing of the supposed plates to some expert who said they were Egyptian, Arabic and assorted others, but when this expert was told it was translated through “revelation” he recanted.

Sounds like backfilling a made up story to me.

 

[Horton]

I agree the whole thing is a mess and makes no sense. Best I can tell Harris took drawing of the supposed plates to some expert who said they were Egyptian, Arabic and assorted others, but when this expert was told it was translated through “revelation” he recanted.

Sounds like backfilling a made up story to me.

When someone uses LDS writings to prove LDS theology…:shrug When you put
Isaiah 29:9-16 into context it means something completely different.

*Blindness and Perversity

9 Stupefy yourselves and stay stupid;
blind yourselves and stay blind!
You who are drunk, but not from wine,
who stagger, but not from strong drink!

10 For the LORD has poured out on you
a spirit of deep sleep.
He has shut your eyes (the prophets)
and covered your heads (the seers).

11 For you the vision of all this has become like the words of a sealed scroll. When it is handed to one who can read, with the request, “Read this,” the reply is, “I cannot, because it is sealed.”

12 When the scroll is handed to one who cannot read, with the request, “Read this,” the reply is, “I cannot read.”

13 The Lord said:
Since this people draws near with words only
and honors me with their lips alone,
though their hearts are far from me,
And fear of me has become
mere precept of human teaching,

14 Therefore I will again deal with this people
in surprising and wondrous fashion:
The wisdom of the wise shall perish,
the prudence of the prudent shall vanish.

15 Ah! You who would hide a plan
too deep for the LORD!
Who work in the dark, saying,
“Who sees us, who knows us?”

16 Your perversity is as though the potter
were taken to be the clay:
As though what is made should say of its maker,
“He did not make me!”
Or the vessel should say of the potter,
“He does not understand.”*

 

[Tarquin]

Luke 16:16 -
“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it.”

Matthew 11:13 -
“For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.”

I don’t think the law or the prophets were talking about the Book of Mormon, or actually even about anything past the ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus, except where either or both of them had to fulfill through their own personal ministries something that the prophets had pointed towards.