Book of Mormon

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He didn’t. Didn’t you hear? He’s an ex-Mormon.

The BoM is clearly erroneous. My friend, please, please, why do you maintain it as truth? Can’t you see the contradictions? Please; I really want to know.

No i cant see them at all
  1. It makes numerous errors concerning the life of early Native Americans;
I would be glad for you to tell me about these errors concerning early native Americans, which totally discredit’s the Book of Mormon…
  1. states that there are many “gods” (contrary to John 5:44; John 17:3; Romans 16:27; 1 Corinthians 8:4; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Galatians 3:20; Ephesians 4:4-6; 1 Timothy 1:17; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19; and Jude 1:25);
Which is contrary to (Ps. 82:6; John 10:34-38).

Most people are accustomed to using the term “God” to identify only one being, the Father. But the scriptures sometimes use the term to designate others as well. In this sense, while the faithful worship only one God in spirit and in truth, there exist other beings who have attained the necessary intelligence and righteousness to qualify for the title “god.” Jesus Christ is a God and is a separate personage, distinct from God the Father… Now if you have problems with the teachings of the bible on the nature of the term god that is a different story and it’s really your problem to deal with it not mine .
  1. insists Yeshua is but a creation (contrary to John 1:1 and Philippians 2:6);
I’ll put this down to your lack of understanding about Jesus Christ and the LDS beliefs and comment no omore on it till you actually study a bit more on it
  1. argues that the Church instituted by the Holy, Anointed Messiah fell into total apostasy (contrary to Matthew 16:18);
Well you can say it did not happen and that leaves you standing on shaky sandy ground, because that head stuck in the sand mindset leads you be at logger heads with what is actually taught in the bible
  1. insists that there is marriage after death (contrary to Matthew 23:30 and Mark 12:25);
Again you think that Mormonism or what we believe should fit into the bible and it’s teachings , and I can understand that from you view point , but please don’t try and put me in a box and limit Gods word,
  1. states that humans are preexistent (contrary to Psalms 139:13);
Im not going to look up that reference just let you find where we are told about our pre earth life in the bible and point you too my comment above about you limiting Gods word…
  1. says obedient humans can become “gods” (contrary to Isaiah 43:10);
I thought I answered that above ….
  1. teaches that God created from matter preexistent (contrary to modern cosmology);
If you but this in a more clear and understanding way I might be able to answer it
Modern cosmology good point…
  1. and is named for the pagan deity Mormo.
What……???

Please, I urge you, search the Scriptures. Pray without presuppositions. Search, and tell me God doesn’t lead you to a different path than that which you are currently traveling down.
I have searched I and understand that God has lead me where he wants me to be. And the path is indeed narrow __ but has room for one more so I urge you too____ have alook at the way and the truth and the light and step from the darkness that you are wandering in like the lost sheep ____
 
It’s bad 19th century fiction, which no one but the Mormons accepts as scripture. If the BoM is scripture, then clearly superior literature of the 19th century like the works of Mark Twain must also be scripture.
 
montague said:
and peace onto you my friend
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Montague, the Book of Abraham is a fake and this has been proven scientifically and accepted in virtually all academic circles of today. There is not a single unbiased scientist who thinks that Joseph Smith could read egyptian papryi. Scientists clearly have the papyri that he used for his translations and all the egyptian scholars have unanimously attested that Abraham is not mentioned anywhere in these relics and that they are indeed pagan and completely unrelated to the contents of the “Book of Abraham” as Smith imagined it. Furthermore, if you bothered to read this, you can clearly see that there is not a single scrap of archaeological evidence today that an unbiased scientist would accept as proof of the book of Mormon. The dna evidence itself speaks volumes about how the native american indians could never have been descendants of ancient Jews as Joseph Smith claimed. The head archaeologist attempting to defend the book of Mormon, even writes about his utter loss of faith after being unable to uncover a single piece of evidence after 30 years excavating.

How do you reconcile these glaring inerrancies? It’s one thing to pick and choose Bible verses, interpreting them in a complementary light to Joseph Smith’s teachings, but it’s quite another to face the insurmountable weight of scientific evidence today that points to the Book of Mormon as being a false document and Joseph Smith being a false prophet.

I beg you to do some research of your own about some of the topics I’ve mentioned.
 
DNA evidence is clear that contrary to Mormon mythology American aboriginals are Asian in origin (from roughly the region known as Mongolia today). They are clearly not Semitic in origin. The BoM describes animals such as horse and elephants that were NOT present in pre-Columbian America. The BoM describe plant life such as grapes that was not growing in pre-Columbian America. The BoM describes wide ranging civilizations of iron age Jews living in North and South America. The reality is the most advanced pre-Columbian American cultures were bronze age cultures and no shortage of them were late stone age cultures. No single site that can be shown as a BoM site has ever been found. Despite descriptions of massive battles no evidence of them, or iron ages weapons and armor has ever been produced. In short, everything we know about pre-Columbian America contradicts the BoM.
 
Interesting discussion. Actually, there is an explanation of the Book of Mormon that is between a supernatural translation and a fantastic lie by Joseph Smith. And it is one that validates the Catholic Church. Many people of American Indian heritage, especially of the Eastern tribes, believe that there is some truth in it, grossly mangled by Joe&Co.

solomonspalding.com/SRP/saga2/sagawt0J.htm

Neither the Catholic Church, nor LDS, have taken a position on this paper, although I expect it to be totally ignored by the LDS hierarchy-- only because they can’t refute it. 😃
 
I would be glad for you to tell me about these errors concerning early native Americans, which totally discredit’s the Book of Mormon.
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Of course! Sorry. I was very tired last night …

The metals iron, steel, and brass are mentioned as existing in the early Americas in 2 Nephi, Jarom, Mosiah, and Ether; crops like wheat, barley, oats, and millet, in Mosiah and Alma; silk, in Alma; and animals like pigs, cattle, horses, donkeys, and chickens, in 1 Nephi, 3 Nephi, and Ether. None of these items, however, were found in the early Americas prior to 1492 A.D, when they were introduced by the Europeans.

The BoM also claims that the Native American populations were derived from the ancient Israelites, when in reality modern science has confirmed that the Native American people are actually derived from Asian populations. Likewise, it is extremely unlikely that some 2600 years ago a voyage was made across the Atlantic Ocean to the Americas, as it would have been in all probability doomed to failure from point A.
Which is contrary to (Ps. 82:6; John 10:34-38).
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The passages which I quoted are firm in their conclusions. I recommend you really look at the latter part of Isa. 43:10:

You have been chosen to know me, believe in me,
and understand that I ***alone ***am God.
There is no other God–
there never has been, and there never will be.

Psalm 82:6 is referring to the judges (see verse 2), who served as representatives of God (check out the Torah, for more on this). The understanding that they are but representatives of the Almighty (keelohim, literally “like God,” as the text alternately could be rendered) is the way in which the Jewish community has understood this passage throughout the centuries past, and still they maintain it as such, as do Christians. Given that the Scriptures do not conflict, taking into account Isa. 43:10 and the fact that nowhere else in Scripture is elohim used to refer to humans, this explanation should prove satisfactory.
I’ll put this down to your lack of understanding about Jesus Christ and the LDS beliefs and comment no omore on it till you actually study a bit more on it
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Alright. I may very well be ignorant of your view on the nature of the Messiah. If you could give me an abridged version, I would be very grateful. But I do grasp at least in part your understanding of the Trinity–that the Father, Son, and Spirit are all really God, but are not one Being, but rather are united “in spirit and in purpose.” For instance, you said that “Jesus Christ is a God… distinct from God the Father.” Calling Christ “a” god would be to any orthodox Christian a heretical statement, because in light of the eternity of Yeshua presented in John, Philippians, and Colossians, there is an apparent contradiction between the LDS doctrine and the Scriptures. Similarly, in John, does not Christ declare, “I and my Father are One,” “If you had really known me, you would have known who my Father is,” and “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father!”? Also, in his prayer in chapter 17, he asks the Father to glorify him, while in Isaiah 42:8 Yahweh says he will not share his glory with anyone, implying that Yeshua is, in fact, the Lord Yahweh himself, or else would be in terrible err in asking for this. Also notable is the frequent use of “I Am” statements, using the Covenant Name of God to refer to himself, choosing twelve disciples paralleled to the choosing the Twelve Tribes of Israel from the Old Testament, and the oddity of speaking in his own Name (for instance, “Truly, truly, I say to you…”), in place of “The Lord says…” These associations are much stronger than simply stating he is in agreement with the Father “in spirit and in purpose,” as almost any devout Jew of his day could have said. Likewise, if he was but “a god,” then to worship him would be wrong, since God strictly forbade the worship of another, condemning such heretics to be cut from the community of Israel for their idolatry.
 
Well you can say it did not happen and that leaves you standing on shaky sandy ground, because that head stuck in the sand mindset leads you be at logger heads with what is actually taught in the bible
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Why would Yeshua institute his Church only to watch it crumble? If he is the Foundation Stone of the Church, then how can you say it was overcome?
Again you think that Mormonism or what we believe should fit into the bible and it’s teachings , and I can understand that from you view point , but please don’t try and put me in a box and limit Gods word,
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If Mormonism does not conform to the Scriptures, it is a corrupted faith-system and should be abhorred and loathed by all those who seek God and his truth … I don’t understand how you seem to claim that it does not have to be in agreement with the Word of God to be true.
Im not going to look up that reference just let you find where we are told about our pre earth life in the bible and point you too my comment above about you limiting Gods word.
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I’m assuming you are referring to Jeremiah, where God says,

“I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb.
Before you were born I set you apart
and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.”

Yet if God exists outside of the confines of Time (as it is necessary for him to, since Time itself is a creation), then he can know each and every one of us before we were born, as he is all-knowing, all-seeing, and utterly transcendent. (God could not have first been a man without having someone to create him, and then of course someone to create that creator, and so on and so forth … And if he was but flesh and bones, then he would be subject to the laws of duration, and thus he would cease to be “God.”)
If you but this in a more clear and understanding way I might be able to answer it
Modern cosmology good point…
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The argument that gods are created dictates then that this preexistent matter must be eternal, while it is agreed by modern science that matter was created at the Big Bang.
What……???
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The very source of the name “Mormon” is thought by a great many to have been derived from that Greek deity Mormo.
I have searched I and understand that God has lead me where he wants me to be. And the path is indeed narrow __ but has room for one more so I urge you too____ have alook at the way and the truth and the light and step from the darkness that you are wandering in like the lost sheep ____
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I have an eager expectation in my heart that I am to share in the inheritance of Christ, for my God–my Rescuer–loved me enough to die and rise again, that he might live in and through me. Nothing else could ever compare to the joy, the happiness, the utter completeness I’ve had in Yeshua my Messiah and Savior since I first surrendered my life to him:

“You received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children. And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory.” --Romans 8:15-17
 
False religion, false prophet,fake “revelations”, deluded people. Well-meaning, but deluded. No serious study of mormonism will lead you to any other conclusion. Unless you happen to be mormon.
 
exiled said:
Montague sounds very much like zerinus, with a change of font.
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amgid is proven wrong with his own quoted sources… he leaves and zerinus appears (moving from a to z) same sarcasm and arrogant posturing without proof for any of the outlandish assertions. zerinus occasionally seems to be tag teaming with a brit (paul g maybe?) sharing the moniker. zerinus is easily refuted every time he attempts to show that mormonism is true. his sources are challenged and found to NOT show what he wants. he makes no traction with the catechized catholics and now with watchful eyes always there he can’t proselytize the uninformed without the other side being presented in a factual manner. He announces a “break”… montague appears with the same vitriol and unfounded assertions thinking (like many LDS) that if he just arrogantly “bears testimony” everyone will either be converted or damned for not converting.
 
montague said:
it could be that the catholic church is an apostate religion and has lost sight of the truth as to one of the reasons that it does not except the Book of Mormon,

also i see we have some some Joseph Smith haters on here which is ok , but people in glass houses should not trow stones unless they want to break glass…
any not the way i wanted to enter the forum, but hi to every one
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We do want to break glass though.

We want to shatter all the myths that the LDS claim is the “truth”.
 
kellie said:
We do want to break glass though.

We want to shatter all the myths that the LDS claim is the “truth”.
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Zerius’ replacement has a lot of brass waltzing onto a Catholic forum braying about “the apostate Catholic Church”. You have stepped into the minefield, Montague.
 
**[CCM08
Regular Member Join Date: February 7, 2007
Posts: 44

Re: Book of Mormon
It’s bad 19th century fiction, which no one but the Mormons accepts as scripture. If the BoM is scripture, then clearly superior literature of the 19th century like the works of Mark Twain must also be scripture./B]

if Mark Twains books contained the everlasting Gospel and the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ then i would have to agree with you about his writings being scripture , but alas they dont so on that score i would say stop being silly…
Of course no one but LDS accept The Book of Mormon as scripture, my question to you is why would one accept it and not be a latter day saint?? hence the reason why all those who accept it are latter day saints just like those that accept the bible and teachings of Jesus are Christian, prehaps this simplicity is wasted on you…

The world has been fooled by the great deceiver into believing that the Book of Mormon is on trial, well that could not be further from the truth, it’s not the Book that is on trial , it’s YOU to see if you accept God’s word or will you be like the Pharisees of old in rejecting him again. That whats on offer nothing else .

One thing I would say to those who waffle about prove of a scientific nature… you have an nerve, Catholics cant even explain the God they worship… …**
 
montague said:
The world has been fooled by the great deceiver into believing that the Book of Mormon is on trial, well that could not be further from the truth, it’s not the Book that is on trial , it’s YOU to see if you accept God’s word or will you be like the Pharisees of old in rejecting him again. That whats on offer nothing else .
…
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Why is it that everything mormons say about catholics describe exactly how I feel about mormons? Do mormons not look in the mirror? They should listen to their own accusations and look inward, ask themselves these questions.

God’s Word is in the bible, not the book of mormon. God’s Word is true, unchanging. Not a pack of lies that is constantly being changed and shifted and re-explained and ignored and half-believed.

IMO the deceiver in question goes by the name of Joseph Smith.
 
hosemonkey said:
Zerius’ replacement has a lot of brass waltzing onto a Catholic forum braying about “the apostate Catholic Church”. You have stepped into the minefield, Montague.
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thanks for the warm welcome guys and girls, regarding the minefield I shall tip toe with care, and promise not to bring up all the child abuse of the catholic church and the move them on idea of " sweep it under the carpet it will go away" , the re churching of women , the early placement of popes for political gain, or selling of it to the higest biddder sort of like on e- bay…

especially the killing of millions of people, the slience in the second world war on the killing of the Jews, the raping of countries and the art taking from them to hang in the popes palace… not to mention the nazi party, the paying of money for the right to indulge… limbo O sorry does not exist anymore, babies going to hell shall I go on I promise not to mention them.
 
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

IMO Zenius was a better message board missionary than you. The LDS church was better off with him assigned to this board.

PS If you’re going to make accusations you should at least do your research.
 
montague said:
also i see we have some some Joseph Smith haters on here which is ok , but people in glass houses should not trow stones unless they want to break glass…
any not the way i wanted to enter the forum, but hi to every one
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I live up here near JS’ hometown, my friend, & I can tell you right now, that you haven’t heard anything yet…There is a :yawn:“Great New Truth” to be revealed in a couple of years or so…We all know, because there were people working on the temple in Palmyra who weren’t Mormons, & the Mormons were seen burying something on Hill Cumorah.
Said workmen were fired, shortly thereafter, on the flimsiest of excuses, when word got out that the whole town was talking about the latest antics…(We are:yawn: used to this sort of thing, you see; we’ve:shrug: seen it before, we’ll no doubt:shrug: see it again… :sleep: :sleep: )

Oh, & just a wee friendly hint: You will last longer around this board if you cease from repeating lies & slanders out of the firm of Boettner, Hislop, Chick, Chick, & Chick…
 
One of the reasons for why the Mormons push so hard with their Gospel including the Book of Mormon is this quote from The Book of Mormon:
Jacob Chapter 1
18 For I, Jacob, and my brother Joseph had been consecrated priests and teachers of this people, by the hand of Nephi.
19 And we did magnify our office unto the Lord, taking upon us the responsibility, answering the sins of the people upon our own heads if we did not teach them the word of God with all diligence; wherefore, by laboring with our might their blood might not come upon our garments; otherwise their blood would come upon our garments, and we would not be found spotless at the last day.
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Basically they are afraid if they don’t preach the gospel, then they will suffer for not doing it, so basically there is a tremendous drive for them to do every thing they can to spread the LDS Gospel to all people.

This was a passage in the Book of Mormon I came upon by accident when reading one day.
 
It has been disproven that American Indians are of Jewish origin.

Joseph Smith’s account of the “miracles”, and the witnesses’ testimony are so inconsistent, and far out of line with natural reality, and how certified miracles occur, that we know them to be absolute fiction. The other “translations” are patently bogus.

There is plenty of archaeological and literary (and DNA) evidence to substantiate the theory that the original story of the BoM, mangled by Joe Smith & Co., is of the Viking invasion of North America, which places much of the content of the BoM in the same category as Mein Kampf.

“Mormon” is actually derived from “More man (fewer Indians-- implied)” It is in the book, you will have to look in the re-interpretation paper to find it. Given the historical record of genocidal activities by Mormons, this makes a lot of sense. As an example, many of the victims of the infamous Mountain Meadows Massacre were Cherokee, a point that many people have missed.

What drives Mormonism on in today’s United States is the fact that it is a racist religion. And racism still exists in the US.

Mark Twain said that the Book of Mormon is “chloroform in print”, mostly composed of extremely repititious filler.

Mormons are incapable of looking into a mirror. If they would, the glass would break. All they are capable of doing, especially at this point in history, is projecting thier own flaws and sins on others.

Those who believe that the BoM is what the LDS says it is are truly fools, deceived by the devil.

Critics of Mormonism are generally exmormons, still influenced by the racism of their culture. Many American Indians are now speaking up, after 170 years (and more) of terrorism, harrassment, and genocide. The dam has broken, and the flood (Wvoka) cannot be stopped.
 
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