Book of Mormon

[majick275]

thanks for the warm welcome guys and girls, regarding the minefield I shall tip toe with care, and promise not to bring up all the child abuse of the catholic church and the move them on idea of " sweep it under the carpet it will go away" , the re churching of women , the early placement of popes for political gain, or selling of it to the higest biddder sort of like on e- bay…

especially the killing of millions of people, the slience in the second world war on the killing of the Jews, the raping of countries and the art taking from them to hang in the popes palace… not to mention the nazi party, the paying of money for the right to indulge… limbo O sorry does not exist anymore, babies going to hell shall I go on I promise not to mention them.

why would we shy from any of those things? bring em on. let’s discuss. child abuse by clergy isn’t just a catholic problem it happens in all churches. would you like to discuss some mormon ones? we can start with my former bishopric, a memeber of whom is in prison (finally) after over 20 years of molestations. The LDs authorities kept being “prompted by the spirit” to put him in callings where he could work directly with the youth. He was finaly convicted of molesting the young man that LDS social services placed with him for adoption. How’s that being led by direct revelation working for you? what do you mean by rechurching of women? is it as bad as being assigned as plural wives to despotic “patriarchs”? no politics in the LDS church ever? whatever. in any case Satan tries real hard to work over GOD’s church…it’s still here though. as to money buying status…look at the LDS propensity of associating wealth with divine favor in calling leaders. that started with Joseph Smith. just look at all of those wealthy benefactors whop he called to high positions that later “fell away”. then there were the early LDS customs of patriarchs charging for blessings and bishops and stake presidents taking a cut of tithing. where are the LDS financial reports today? oh right it’s all secret. killing people? like nephi was told to do? like mountain meadows? Utah rebellion against the US? you have your facts wrong on the jews. but what about the LDs position on people of african or native american descent? wasn’t it god’s mark of sinfulness to prevent folks from race mixing? and people were born into thiose bodies because they were “less valiant” in the pre-existence? the nazis were no friends to the catholics but did share racial philosophy with the mormons. you obviously don’t understand indulgences. read up on it then come back. you might want to look at what Jospeh smith said on plundering nations and think about taking everyone to utah and making them financially dependent on the monarch (brigham young) what babies go to hell? where is that in the catechism? once again you have no facts. how about castrating men to ensure that priesthood leaders got their pick of the women as plural wives?

I think amgid/zerinus is back.

 

[Allweather]

I think amgid/zerinus is back.

I think you’re right. He didn’t stay gone for long. They’re similar, yet different. Montague is like an alter-ego from some defective parallel universe, where the similarities stop at the superficial.

I notice montague hasn’t answered any of the problems posed by you and Jerusha, or Truthinator.

Wow! You go, Truthinator!

 

[montague]

now that you know i’m here lets actually get to talking about some things. and we can stop with the childish posts like " he did not stay long or he is like some one else…

it may come as a big surprise to you , but some people have a life so it might take more than a minute to reply to the lies…

Why would Yeshua institute his Church only to watch it crumble? If he is the Foundation Stone of the Church, then how can you say it was overcome?

Well if God is all knowing, why would Adam and Eve be placed into the garden known full well that they would sin?? would it not have been better some other way, then we would have no sin in the world?

If Mormonism does not conform to the Scriptures, it is a corrupted faith-system and should be abhorred and loathed by all those who seek God and his truth … I don’t understand how you seem to claim that it does not have to be in agreement with the Word of God to be true.

You are entitled to that response and I would expect nothing different from you again you try and limit Gods word and I’m not in the business of doing such … If you can point out where God says this is my word and nothing else then we can talk about this. Until then you really just are offering your own biased opinion on it and I’m not really in the business of listening to a poor mans gospel…

Yet if God exists outside of the confines of Time (as it is necessary for him to, since Time itself is a creation), then he can know each and every one of us before we were born, as he is all-knowing, all-seeing, and utterly transcendent. (God could not have first been a man without having someone to create him, and then of course someone to create that creator, and so on and so forth … And if he was but flesh and bones, then he would be subject to the laws of duration, and thus he would cease to be “God.”)

You are intent on putting limits on God what on earth makes you think that if God has a body of flesh and bones that he would be subject to the laws of duration, as you so nicely put it??? I’m really interested on your take here, since Jesus himself had a resurrected body I wonder what you think he did with that body??

Are you creating your own gospel here?

Are you telling God what he can do and what he can’t do?

I think so, the rest of the small statement above I have no

problems with.

The argument that gods are created dictates then that this preexistent matter must be eternal, QUOTE]

does it??

while it is agreed by modern science that matter was created at the Big Bang.

is’nt it nice to fall b ack on science when we have nothing else to say
Is this the same science that proves that God does not exist??
and that he is only in the minds of people that feel they need a spiritual crutch to lean on ??

[The very source of the name “Mormon” is thought by a great many to have been derived from that Greek deity Mormo.

Exactly who are this great many??? Reference please

[/quote]

 

[Allweather]

Well if God is all knowing, why would Adam and Eve be placed into the garden known full well that they would sin?? would it not have been better some other way, then we would have no sin in the world?

I’ve felt like the argument “why would God establish His Church only to let it fall into Apostasy” to be a weak one. I’d rather see some evidence of the Mormon and other cult accusation against Christains that they are apostate. After all, this is a serious accusation. An accusation of such serious nature should be accompanied by hard evidence. Zerinus was never able to provide any, so it seems unlikely that this new middle-of-the-alphabet manifestation of him will, either.

The Mormon position seems to rely on certain Biblical statements that they say show that the Great Apostasy was already in progress during the lifetimes of the Apostles. This seems weak. First, because this is based on Mormon interpretations of Scripture, and second, because Mormons don’t really believe in the Bible anyway, so why would a Mormon use the Bible as a reference for something so serious as an accusation against Christians that they are apostate?

 

[Allweather]

Hey, there, montague… in #28 of this tread, The Truthinator pointed out the following, and I quote:

"“The metals iron, steel, and brass are mentioned as existing in the early Americas in 2 Nephi, Jarom, Mosiah, and Ether; crops like wheat, barley, oats, and millet, in Mosiah and Alma; silk, in Alma; and animals like pigs, cattle, horses, donkeys, and chickens, in 1 Nephi, 3 Nephi, and Ether. None of these items, however, were found in the early Americas prior to 1492 A.D, when they were introduced by the Europeans.”"

How do True Believing Mormons, like yourself, deal with problems like this?

 

[montague]

[Zerinus was never able to provide any, so it seems unlikely that this new middle-of-the-alphabet manifestation of him will, either.

/QUOTE]

lets get things straight … who is Zerinus?? and why is his name popping up in this thread and if there is an accuastion to be made stop beating around the bush and say it out clear…

 

[montague]

I’d rather see some evidence of the Mormon and other cult accusation against Christains that they are apostate. After all, this is a serious accusation

indeed it is a serious claim, but one that we wont reach the end of , if accuastions are to continue to be made regarding myself and an -other person. lets put this to bed , please and then continue after all the MOD only has to check ip address which will give location if thats the claim being hinted at that we are one and the same… when that is put to bed we can get to some adult dabate on the subjects at hand

 

[Jerusha]

Your claims about ip tracing are no longer valid with wi-fi.

This forum has a constant stream of LDS “missionaries”, all of whom demonstrate similar techniques in their debating style. Personally, given robo-think among TBM LDS, it is not a subject worth debating.

Now, answer me this: why do you refuse to participate in debate with me?

 

[montague]

Your claims about ip tracing are no longer valid with wi-fi.

This forum has a constant stream of LDS “missionaries”, all of whom demonstrate similar techniques in their debating style. Personally, given robo-think among TBM LDS, it is not a subject worth debating.

Now, answer me this: why do you refuse to participate in debate with me?

I wasnt aware that i had…

 

[Verisimilitude]

One thing I would say to those who waffle about prove of a scientific nature… you have an nerve, Catholics cant even explain the God they worship… …

Can you explain the god you worship?

 

[Allweather]

indeed it (apostasy) is a serious claim, but one that we wont reach the end of , if accuastions are to continue to be made regarding myself and an -other person. lets put this to bed , please and then continue

Alrighty, then. In #12 of this thread, you, montague, barged in with the following:

""it could be that the catholic church is an apostate religion and has lost sight of the truth as to one of the reasons that it does not except the Book of Mormon, ""

Are you making the accusation of apostasy? The so-called Great Apostasy is one of the main features of Mormonism, as you know. If you, montague, are, like your religious heroes, making this accusation against Christianity in general, and Catholicism in particular, then you should have some concrete evidence. Apostasy is a serious sin. Apostasy means that we Christians have RENOUNCED our faith.

And, please don’t forget the question, repeated in #45, about things spoken of in the BoM which we know didn’t exist in the Americas prior to 1492.

 

[PaulDupre]

one thing I would say to those who waffle about prove of a scientific nature… you have an nerve, Catholics cant even explain the God they worship… …

Any god that can be fully “explained” or understood by a man is not God.

 

[BrownR]

I feel like I’m watching Alberto Gonzales in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee all over again…

 

[Jerusha]

I feel like I’m watching Alberto Gonzales in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee all over again…

:yawn: We just don’t seem to be able to pin them down, do we? Evading the point seems to be their only strategy left.

:coffeeread: Just reading a translation of the Viking saga of Greenland. It appears that there was an Irish colony in the area before the Vikings landed.

Oh, by the way, Montaigue, I wonder how you can be a Mormon, dishonoring your Irish relatives who came here earlier than other Europeans, and assimilated with the Indian population, bringing primitive Irish Christianity with them. Unless you really aren’t Irish. Maybe you are an American LDS missionary in Ireland spending time on the internet because no true Irish person will listen to your BS, just like no true American Indian who knows his culture will listen to LDS, either.

I am going on to more interesting debates on other boards.

 

[Kristine1957]

I would like to ask all Mormons on this forum to view this video and then talk about the DNA issues and thier BoM.
www.lhvm.org/dna.htm

 

[montague]

:yawn: We just don’t seem to be able to pin them down, do we? Evading the point seems to be their only strategy left.

:coffeeread: Just reading a translation of the Viking saga of Greenland. It appears that there was an Irish colony in the area before the Vikings landed.

Oh, by the way, Montaigue, I wonder how you can be a Mormon, dishonoring your Irish relatives who came here earlier than other Europeans, and assimilated with the Indian population, bringing primitive Irish Christianity with them. Unless you really aren’t Irish. Maybe you are an American LDS missionary in Ireland spending time on the internet because no true Irish person will listen to your BS, just like no true American Indian who knows his culture will listen to LDS, either.

I am going on to more interesting debates on other boards.

well then I guess there is always one that lowers the tone and turns to insults, im not sure what you mean by primitive christainty, it its what i think you mean need i remind you you we have buildings older than your country… I have to laugh at no true Irish person would listen, you got me im an irish fake. living in Ireland, what a shame that your detective work found me out so quickly, my cover blown i shall have to run and be a fake Irish person elsewhere, i wonder is there anyone over sixteen on this forum… I was in the process of answering your question , but since you are leaving I cant see why I should waste my time ,I’ll move on to another one from another person …

but before you go would you like to back up this statement

What drives Mormonism on in today’s United States is the fact that it is a racist religion. And racism still exists in the US

with facts please some people that feel that the church has been racist towards them will do…

 

[Allweather]

well then I guess there is always one that lowers the tone and turns to insults, im not sure what you mean by primitive christainty, it its what i think you mean need i remind you you we have buildings older than your country… I have to laugh at no true Irish person would listen, you got me im an irish fake. living in Ireland, what a shame that your detective work found me out so quickly, my cover blown i shall have to run and be a fake Irish person elsewhere, i wonder is there anyone over sixteen on this forum… I was in the process of answering your question , but since you are leaving I cant see why I should waste my time ,I’ll move on to another one from another person …

but before you go would you like to back up this statement

with facts please some people that feel that the church has been racist towards them will do…

Here’s the deal, monti. You barged in here calling us apostates, so I guess the bolded part of your post above more applies to you than to us. Many questions were posed to you, in detail. So far you have squirmed and wiggled, but have not offered any information. If this is all you’re going to do, then maybe your time would be better spent out there on your bicycle, knocking on doors.

 

[Jerusha]

im not sure what you mean by primitive christainty, it its what i think you mean need i remind you you we have buildings older than your country…

“Primitive Irish Christianity” is no insult-- it is the tradition of St. Patrick, St. Bridget and St. Brendan. It is to be honored. Perhaps you need to read this book: amazon.com/Irish-Saved-Civilization-Hinges-History/dp/0385418493 to develop more pride in what you claim to be your heritage.

with facts please some people that feel that the church has been racist towards them will do…

I have already included that information in my posts and article, if you care to read them.

 

[montague]

Here’s the deal, monti. You barged in here calling us apostates, so I guess the bolded part of your post above more applies to you than to us. Many questions were posed to you, in detail. So far you have squirmed and wiggled, but have not offered any information. If this is all you’re going to do, then maybe your time would be better spent out there on your bicycle, knocking on doors.

well heres the deal allweather, sorry that im not quick enough to answer your question and those posed by others, it jst so happens that my work does not have me stting here at a computer screen all day with nothing better to do, maybe indeed my time would be far better served by riding my bicycle and knocking on doors, and if you give me the name of your street I might just drop by, but then i might miss the nice warm welcome that has been extended by some and that would be a shame. So instead of stamping your feet and trowing your teddy form your cot and saying i’ll scream and scream until i get an answer try and relax and stop drinking so much caffine it will stop you from being hyper. Love montague…

 

[montague]

“Primitive Irish Christianity” is no insult-- it is the tradition of St. Patrick, St. Bridget and St. Brendan. It is to be honored. Perhaps you need to read this book: amazon.com/Irish-Saved-Civilization-Hinges-History/dp/0385418493 to develop more pride in what you claim to be your heritage.

I have already included that information in my posts and article, if you care to read them.

prehaps you would like to inform me about Patrick… who chased all the snakes from Ireland, we real Irish have your opinions on him, but it would be nice to hear yours.

dont remember reading any references or anything else regarding racism in the Church of Jesus Christ other than your bigoted comment.

the funny thing about this really is i have never heard any person that is in full membership of the church claim it was racist, but if you can tell me of some I would love to chat to them or you can have them email