Book on Papal Authority that Will Change My Mind

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johnnyc176 said:
I’m not quite sure I understand. Your saying that as Catholics we should look to other interpretations? According to what I think you mean then the Catechism of the Catholic Church is presumptuous. Either the Catholic Church is the Church that Jesus founded or it isn’t, no?
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No. I am saying that as catholics we should understand that not everyone is where we are. they may or may not understand what the Church teaches. So, saying things like “what don’t you understand” is off-putting for those posing a question about the Church.
 
The recommendation would depend where you’re coming from, how much you’ve read, what your leanings are, etc.

One book that was helpful for me, short, well-written, and to the point:The Russian Church and the Papacy by Vladimir Soloviev. Its case is presented vis a vis Eastern Orthodoxy, but it contains some brilliant arguments relevant for anyone.

I’d also recommend Upon This Rock by Steve Ray, more geared toward those with Protestant leanings, but again, could be helpful for anyone.

If you’re more on the scholarly side, you might want to read Studies on the Early Papacy by Dom John Chapman. This was written in response to Anglican polemics, and honestly I haven’t read it, but the recommendation comes from persons I trust.
 
This might seem an odd recommendation but I’d suggest checking out “A New History of Early Christianity” by the agnostic historian Charles Freeman. Freeman has no particular bias for or against Christianity or Catholicism or Protestantism-- he treats it strictly as a phenomenon, from the perspective of a scholar of Antiquity. He gets a few facts wrong and tends to paint unflattering pictures of such key figures of as Paul and Jerome, but I’d suggest you read it not for his ambivalent interpretations but for its honest, fascinating narrative of the development of the Church, especially the intense theological struggles that constantly seemed to undermine its authority and unity. Reading this book was the key event in my acceptance of Papal authority.

Why? Because Jesus is not a symbol or a metaphor, but a real living person who walked this earth, so if we want to know him, it matter a great deal who you go to to learn about him. What you see in Freeman’s book is a Christendom rife with competing interpretations of Jesus, in which what we know today as Orthodoxy had to fight, sometimes bitterly, for its birthright as Truth. It was not always accepted by the majority of bishops. If ultimate authority had not been invested by Christ in a single supreme apostle, there would be no way of determining the true doctrine-- whatever was favored by the majority would simply rule the day. Now, if Jesus is the Truth, he’s not going to let a vote decide who he is. Would you let a vote decide who you are? Truth of any kind is discovered or revealed, not decided upon by a majority vote. When Christ walked the earth, he didn’t let the Apostles vote on what to do next. He said “follow me.” Why would he allow his Church to be governed any differently?

Therefore, to my mind, the office of Pope was necessitated by the nature of the dispute, in order for the direction of Christian doctrine to be anything but arbitrary. Freeman accuses it of being arbitrary, politically motivated, precisely because he does not accept the claim of the Pope. But read between the lines: if Jesus did not choose an individual to be the ultimate authority in the Church on earth, the ultimate bearer and protector of the Christian revelation, the fullness of that revelation would have been lost, especially as the faith spread and continued to be subject to cultural mutations, like all ideas. If the Pope’s claim is nonsense, there is no true Christianity, as Freeman says. So if you are a believer that Christ is alive in the world today, there’s really only one place to go: the Catholic Church.
 
jinc1019 said:
Thanks for adding absolutely nothing! I appreciate your concern (seriously, I do) but this thread is not for this kind of “encouragement.”
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I’m sorry, it did seem a bit ad hominem to me after I posted it, and based more on an emotional reaction than logical argument. Not necessarily an emotional reaction to the Pope argument, but to the effect that Jesus did not give binding authority to his apostles.

If there is no binding authority, how do we know that anything that they(early church and apostles) said is true, since ultimately we are depending on men, and men make mistakes and have prejudices? (like I do).

And if the men following Jesus didn’t have any assurance what they were learning was what Jesus taught, how could we? We could make up things or get them wrong just as well as them.

I could see the point of a council of bishops having the authority to infallibly bind. But then a majority would probably be a majority for this. If this were true then, the church should be Arian.

So you hit me in the gut, so to speak, with the argument that the church has a certain lack of authority. This authority of the Church is what led me back to the CC. Otherwise all arguments are relatively nonsensical, and I would really have no idea of where to go or of what is really correct.

I usually read these posts because I believe they are based on teachings of the CC. Thus I know I have a sure foundation. If Jesus did not give them authority, there is only a quagmire, and in fact, I couldn’t even be sure of what Jesus taught to begin with. I wouldn’t have to try to make the different gospels and epistles jibe. I could just assume that each apostle had his own view and so could I. After all, what authority did they have to bind MY conscience?

I would be left in murkiness, and I need clarity.

peace
steve
 
I would recommend “Upon This Rock” by Steve Ray. That’s the only one I have read in full an it is good.
 
’One, Holy, Catholic, And Apostolic’ by Kenneth D. Whitehead (Ignatius Press).
 
jinc1019 said:
I grew up in the Catholic Church but have recently fallen away from the Church, largely because of papal authority/infallibility. I don’t believe in either. I believe it is possible for a group of bishops to give their authority to one bishop (even the one in Rome), but I do not believe this authority was Divinely ordained and I don’t believe the pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth or protected infallibly by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals.

However, I would like to read even more than I already have on the subject. What do you think is the best book/apologetic on the authority of Rome, papal infallibility, the pope in general, etc.? If you had to convince a person to change his/her mind on this issue, but had only one book to do it, which would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for all of your time!
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My friend, I was you not so long ago.

The reading recommendations given are good. However, IMHO, I’m not sure reading will help you solve this conundrum.

Only prayer and fellowship will.

While the Pope and Infallibility can be defended with reading material, there is something else that is at work: Faith and obedience.

There are many aspects of theology and doctrines and dogmas that can drive me crazy…

In the end, for me, what worked for me was to completely humble myself and submit to the Church. I have not looked back thereafter. God is working wonders in my Faith life, while my personal life is almost a disaster, lol. But I was really blessed to find an amazing Church and an amazing group of brothers in Christ that help me along the way.

Humility is the way, not blind faith. But humbling oneself to the authority and understanding of others, to remain teachable, after all - The Catholic Church is the pillar and bullwark of truth.

I still ask a lot, and probably will for the rest of my existence, lol :o.

May God Bless you on your journey.

PS - Feel free to PM with questions.
 
jinc1019 said:
I grew up in the Catholic Church but have recently fallen away from the Church, largely because of papal authority/infallibility. I don’t believe in either. I believe it is possible for a group of bishops to give their authority to one bishop (even the one in Rome), but I do not believe this authority was Divinely ordained and I don’t believe the pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth or protected infallibly by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals.

However, I would like to read even more than I already have on the subject. What do you think is the best book/apologetic on the authority of Rome, papal infallibility, the pope in general, etc.? If you had to convince a person to change his/her mind on this issue, but had only one book to do it, which would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for all of your time!
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I am assuming you have not read any books on the subject except posts from this site?
 
jinc1019 said:
I grew up in the Catholic Church but have recently fallen away from the Church, largely because of papal authority/infallibility. I don’t believe in either. I believe it is possible for a group of bishops to give their authority to one bishop (even the one in Rome), but I do not believe this authority was Divinely ordained and I don’t believe the pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth or protected infallibly by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals.

However, I would like to read even more than I already have on the subject. What do you think is the best book/apologetic on the authority of Rome, papal infallibility, the pope in general, etc.? If you had to convince a person to change his/her mind on this issue, but had only one book to do it, which would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for all of your time!
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Hi jinc,

well i don’t know where your mind exactly is. 🙂

But I would second ad Orientem’s first suggestion:

Russia and the Universal Church, by V. Solovyev.

Which is online. strobertbellarmine.net/books/Solovyev–Russia_Universal_Church.pdf

Please never forget it is a XIX century text.

Looking forward to your feedback after those two hundred pages.

In Christ

P7
 
jinc1019 said:
I grew up in the Catholic Church but have recently fallen away from the Church, largely because of papal authority/infallibility. I don’t believe in either. I believe it is possible for a group of bishops to give their authority to one bishop (even the one in Rome), but I do not believe this authority was Divinely ordained and I don’t believe the pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth or protected infallibly by the Holy Spirit in matters of faith and morals.

However, I would like to read even more than I already have on the subject. What do you think is the best book/apologetic on the authority of Rome, papal infallibility, the pope in general, etc.? If you had to convince a person to change his/her mind on this issue, but had only one book to do it, which would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for all of your time!
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“The Eastern Churches and the Papacy”, by S. Herbert Scott

catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/BasilChrysostomShort.pdf
 
Try John Salza’s “The Biblical Basis for the Papacy.”

GREAT book that uses ONLY the Bible as a source until the last chapter, when the Church Fathers weigh in on the matter. A very solid book.
 
Great suggestions from everyone…I am looking into all of them and will read as many as I can!
 
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