BOOKS: A New Earth

[Ani_Ibi]

joeacatholic:

… he thinks he is right and others are wrong?

Yes. He does think he is right and others are wrong even though he says others all had the right idea.

His book is self-contradictory and unconscious.

Moreover, his ideas are a far shot from ‘new.’ Try Heidegger, Gadamer, and Neitzche. Yet these writers appear nowhere in his endnotes.

It would be interesting to find an audit of the Tollist movement to see how much feeding of the poor, clothing of the naked, housing of the homeless, visiting of the sick and imprisoned is actually going on as a result of this book.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Hi FanofAquinas!

Welcome to Catholic Answers. I hope you like it here. There is something to suit just about every kind of interest as regards Catholicism and other faiths.

I read on the Oprah message board that quite a few Christians had succumbed to illness during the time they were reading ANE. I eventually did as well.

The message boards over there were so full of anger and prejudice that I just said to myself: “Self, we are soooo outta here.”

Oprah started this. It’s not my stuff. It’s her stuff. It will all come home to rooste and she will have to deal with it. God bless her.

God bless you all. Happy Easter!

 

[fnz2thrght]

Last year it was The Secret. This year it’s A New Earth. When are people going to wake up and realize that Oprah is a wolf in sheep’s clothing?

 

[joeacatholic]

I’m glad I found this forum, and I just want to say that I am grateful to all the replies on this thread. Sometimes I feel like its just me and the good Lord. People look at me like I have three heads because I have morals. Its nice to know I’m not alone. :tiphat:

 

[Carthusianish]

I’m glad I found this forum, and I just want to say that I am grateful to all the replies on this thread. Sometimes I feel like its just me and the good Lord. People look at me like I have three heads because I have morals. Its nice to know I’m not alone. :tiphat:

Heh you must also be from California (as am I – I get the same responses sometimes)

 

[joeacatholic]

Heh you must also be from California (as am I – I get the same responses sometimes)

Nope. Chicago. I guess it must be like this all over the country. Well, I keep thinking of what St. Francis did when the Church was having troubles in his day. I don’t think I’m too far from leaving home, wandering, helping people and leading a penitent lifestyle. I think we all need a little self penance, after all, we do it for reperation of our sins and those of others. I suppose the best way I can fight any sin or book filled with sins is to lead by example and be loving and kind, whether or not the love is returned.

 

[debbidoobie]

Our new site with the original Catholic Encyclopedia by Catholic Answers at oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Inquisition states the following:

Section II, (d) paragraph 9 states “*The Church, thenceforth, expelled from her bosom the impenitent heretic, whereupon the state took over the duty of his temporal punishment. *”. So it wasn’t necessarily the Catholic Church that performed the executions but, rather, the excommunications.

Paragraph 9 states:

“*The Number of Victims.—How many victims were handed over to the civil power cannot be stated with even approximate accuracy. We have nevertheless some valuable information about a few of the Inquisition tribunals, and their statistics are not without interest. At Pamiers, from 1318 to 1324, out of twenty-four persons convicted but five were delivered to the civil power, and at Toulouse from 1308 to 1323, only forty-two out of nine hundred and thirty bear the ominous note “relictus curiae saeculari”. Thus, at Pamiers one in thirteen, and at Toulouse one in forty-two, seem to have been burnt for heresy, although these places were hotbeds of heresy, and therefore principal centers of the Inquisition. We may add, also, that this was the most active period of the institution. These data and others of the same nature bear out the assertion that the Inquisition marks a substantial advance in the contemporary administration of justice, and therefore in the general civilization of mankind. A more terrible fate awaited the heretic when judged by a secular court. In 1249 Count Raymund VII of Toulouse caused eighty confessed heretics to be burned in his presence without permitting them to recant. It is impossible to imagine any such trials before the Inquisition courts. The large numbers of burnings detailed in various histories are completely unauthenticated, and are either the deliberate invention of pamphleteers, or are based on materials that pertain to the Spanish Inquisition of later times or the German witchcraft trials (Vacandard, op. cit., 237 sqq.). *”

History is being rewritten by anti-Catholic radicals and we seem helpless to stop it.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

…History is being rewritten by anti-Catholic radicals and we seem helpless to stop it.

We are NOT without help. We have God. His Grace is sufficient.

Let the others spout off. Their ways will make themselves known. Those who are seeking truth will find themselves swimming the Tiber. Look up what happened to Francis Beckwith who was the previous president of the Evangelical Theological Society. He swam last Spring.

My decision was to leave the conversation on the New Earth completely. If anyone asks me for an opinion, I reply simply that the book displays an ignorance of history which I consider harmful to many groups of people and that I have neither the time nor the energy to put into tilting at windmills. There are far more worthwhile things still waiting to be done on this planet.

 

[joeacatholic]

We are NOT without help. We have God. His Grace is sufficient.

Let the others spout off. Their ways will make themselves known. Those who are seeking truth will find themselves swimming the Tiber. Look up what happened to Francis Beckwith who was the previous president of the Evangelical Theological Society. He swam last Spring.

My decision was to leave the conversation on the New Earth completely. If anyone asks me for an opinion, I reply simply that the book displays an ignorance of history which I consider harmful to many groups of people and that I have neither the time nor the energy to put into tilting at windmills. There are far more worthwhile things still waiting to be done on this planet.

Yes, this seems right. I for a long while searched high and low for some notion of truth. Today, I have it, I may not understand it, but I have it. It is our Lord. But I was thinking, when I was ignorant to this Truth, no one, none at all could convince me of anything. God had to do it. I truly believe that no philisophical or theological argument won me over, it was more than likely my Love, my Lord hearing the prayers of my faithful mother. So I have decided the best way to fight this book is not through boisterous argument, but by honest heartfelt weeping, and by penance, to pull back any souls this work may corrupt with false teaching. God bless you all.

 

[patio]

Hi this is my first time posting so sorry if something goes haywire. I have read the first chapter in this book finding a few things I would consider heretical. First the author, Tolle, compares Jesus as equal with Buddha. He also mentions that spirituality, even in the form of religion, must move away from belief systems and dogma, and into a new conciousness. Well, I for one will still follow the one true Church and its teachings. I proceeded to read a few other sections of the book that I thought might also contain heresy. This book is cunning and dangerous, and unless read with the intention of fighting this new movement, should be left alone. Tolle likes to use Bible quotes and agree with the church once in a while, so as to keep the Christian interested in reading on and not discredit the book. Lets face it, the man is obviously intelligent, so do we really think he did not do this intentionally? At the end of the book he describes people having to evolve or die. Evolve into what? Wouldn’t this theory completely discredit the Gospel? Is not man going to witness the return of Christ? Do we not possess souls just as we are? Well if we evolve we are no longer man are we? So he discredits the true Word of God, while at the same time quoting it. You can’t take what you like and leave the rest. It is either the Truth or not. He does not mention Jesus as God, or the Son of God, only as a man. I’m not sure what we can do about this but this kind of evil (yes leading people into sin such as not believing Christ is one in being with God the Father is evil) has to be stopped. If anyone agrees and has any suggestions I would like to know what we can do as members of the Church to fight this.

This is my first post as I stumbled upon this site while googling to get some actual historical details about what Mr. Tolle refers to in his comment about 3 - 5 million women being tortured or killed as a result of the Holy Inquisition which was ‘an institution founded by the Roman Catholic church to suppress heresy’. That was news to me too and I thought I’d check it out.

I followed this thread and thought I should comment as I have read both of Mr. Tolle’s books and am watching the Oprah web casts, although have not taken a look at the discussion forums. I haven’t yet got any actual numbers on the deaths of women due to ‘the Inquisition’ but find those actual numbers to be less relevant after seeing the types of comments made on this forum.

I am pretty well informed about the Bible and also about Buddhism having been interested and respectful of the different religions for many years.

Mr. Tolle’s point was that different sectors of society, be it race, religious affiliation, gender etc. suffer a kind of collective pain due to selective persecution a different times in Mankind’s history. This fact is indisputable and since there seems to be a lot of disagreement among scholars about the different ‘Inquisitions’, who was responsible and how many people were actually killed as heretics in the name of God, let’s just leave that point to rest.

There seems to be some misconception about Mr. Tolle’s philosophy/ teachings being an attack on any religion in particular. He just believes that the messages given to us by Jesus, Siddartha (Buddha) and other ‘enlightened beings’ were misinterpreted. Certainly re-interpretation of the translations of the Bible is nothing new. What is a bit frightening to me though is the amount of sarcasm and harsh words like ‘evil’ and ‘fight’ and words to the effect that this man must be stopped.

If ever there was support for Mr. Tolle’s beliefs it can be found right here in this forum by the apparent fear and anger displayed toward something that apparently none of you has even read. You’re faith is wonderful and I for one would never try to talk someone out of such a gift but for those of us that are not as convinced as you seem to be, why not let us seek as we find fit and follow our own paths. Live and let live. At least we are seeking God, how bad can that be?

What Mr. Tolle is trying to do is to raise awareness to the fact that there may be many paths to God and if we don’t become more tolerant (which would require us to evolve somewhat) we will in fact all kill each other hence ‘evolve or die’. I think if you actually read his words with an open mind you would not find any evil, only what he calls ‘sign posts’ pointing those willing to look inward to separate the body, mind and soul. Our thinking minds are not our souls so if we could in-fact come in closer contact with our souls it would seem a more direct path to God. If you prefer your way then fine, no one is calling you evil or trying to fight you. Look inside and find the love, that’s your true self, the rest is ego. Picking a fight with those of us who disagree and trying to ‘stop’ people from seeking truth certainly can not be the way to God.

As far as Oprah goes, she is just doing everything she can to make this world a better place and use the power she has through the media responsibly. She has denounced no one’s religion or ideas which is more than I can say for some writers on this forum. Be grateful for your faith and make your own peace with God. Let that peace touch all those you come in contact with God’s love and you will have greater success in attracting followers. Peace.

 

[fnz2thrght]

What Mr. Tolle is trying to do is to raise awareness to the fact that there may be many paths to God

See, this is where people have trouble. There is ONLY one path to God.

 

[joeacatholic]

This is my first post as I stumbled upon this site while googling to get some actual historical details about what Mr. Tolle refers to in his comment about 3 - 5 million women being tortured or killed as a result of the Holy Inquisition which was ‘an institution founded by the Roman Catholic church to suppress heresy’. That was news to me too and I thought I’d check it out.

I followed this thread and thought I should comment as I have read both of Mr. Tolle’s books and am watching the Oprah web casts, although have not taken a look at the discussion forums. I haven’t yet got any actual numbers on the deaths of women due to ‘the Inquisition’ but find those actual numbers to be less relevant after seeing the types of comments made on this forum.

I am pretty well informed about the Bible and also about Buddhism having been interested and respectful of the different religions for many years.

Mr. Tolle’s point was that different sectors of society, be it race, religious affiliation, gender etc. suffer a kind of collective pain due to selective persecution a different times in Mankind’s history. This fact is indisputable and since there seems to be a lot of disagreement among scholars about the different ‘Inquisitions’, who was responsible and how many people were actually killed as heretics in the name of God, let’s just leave that point to rest.

There seems to be some misconception about Mr. Tolle’s philosophy/ teachings being an attack on any religion in particular. He just believes that the messages given to us by Jesus, Siddartha (Buddha) and other ‘enlightened beings’ were misinterpreted. Certainly re-interpretation of the translations of the Bible is nothing new. What is a bit frightening to me though is the amount of sarcasm and harsh words like ‘evil’ and ‘fight’ and words to the effect that this man must be stopped.

If ever there was support for Mr. Tolle’s beliefs it can be found right here in this forum by the apparent fear and anger displayed toward something that apparently none of you has even read. You’re faith is wonderful and I for one would never try to talk someone out of such a gift but for those of us that are not as convinced as you seem to be, why not let us seek as we find fit and follow our own paths. Live and let live. At least we are seeking God, how bad can that be?

What Mr. Tolle is trying to do is to raise awareness to the fact that there may be many paths to God and if we don’t become more tolerant (which would require us to evolve somewhat) we will in fact all kill each other hence ‘evolve or die’. I think if you actually read his words with an open mind you would not find any evil, only what he calls ‘sign posts’ pointing those willing to look inward to separate the body, mind and soul. Our thinking minds are not our souls so if we could in-fact come in closer contact with our souls it would seem a more direct path to God. If you prefer your way then fine, no one is calling you evil or trying to fight you. Look inside and find the love, that’s your true self, the rest is ego. Picking a fight with those of us who disagree and trying to ‘stop’ people from seeking truth certainly can not be the way to God.

As far as Oprah goes, she is just doing everything she can to make this world a better place and use the power she has through the media responsibly. She has denounced no one’s religion or ideas which is more than I can say for some writers on this forum. Be grateful for your faith and make your own peace with God. Let that peace touch all those you come in contact with God’s love and you will have greater success in attracting followers. Peace.

 

[joeacatholic]

joeacatholic:
Thank you for your comments, they are appreciated. Well I disagree. I don’t believe Oprah only tries to help ppl. I saw an episode on a man having a baby. I think its about ratings. And I am not intolerant of other religions. I also have studied buddhism. However I would like to point out that this is a ***Catholic ***Answers Forum, and yes, his book does make some good points about tolerance and not believing only I have the answers. However, seeing again as this as a Catholic Forum, why would it be so wrong for someone to point out that Tolle’s teachings are in direct conflict with the Catholic Faith? Oh, yes, and I never commented on the Inquisition. But this man’s ideas are dangerous to me, because they can take a good Catholic and put wrong ideas, yes wrong, in their head. Should I call him wrong? Am I not entitled to my freedom of speech and ideas just as Tolle? Oh yeah, and I don’t burn heretics, I only point out what has the possibility to harm others, because I too only want to help. I myself admit I am mistaken quite often. That’s why I have God to direct me through his Church. However, I’m not selling books and plugging books and telling people if they don’t agree with me they just don’t get it. So I’m sorry if I was misunderstood, but I am quite a tolerant person, and I think my Jewish buddy, agnostic father, or athiest brother would agree.

 

[joeacatholic]

Oh and one more thing, I don’t constantly argue with others who don’t hold my views and tell them they’re wrong. Unless their beliefs are seriously injuring to others, I usually just pray for their conversion. Oh yeah, and didn’t our beloved Pope John Paul II constantly preach, as well as our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI, about religious tolerance?

 

[patio]

Sorry, I did not mean to sound as if I were attacking your comments personally. I responded to your post just as an example of what seems to be a collective sentiment expressed on this forum that ‘you’ (as in some posters) feel angered and somehow fearful of the discussion taking place on Oprah’s web cast with Eckhart Tolle and want it stopped. Does this mean you would all like all discussion contrary to the beliefs of the catholic church stopped? You see where I’m going with this right?

You are right, this is a forum for catholics and I am not a catholic so my ideas may not be helpful within the context of this forum so I will stay out of it. I understand the deep faith you have and as I said before, I have a great deal of respect for it. I have people in my life that I love very much that are catholic, protestant, jewish, buddhist, muslim and even agnostic (as I’m sure many of you do too). The only God I can believe in loves them all equally yet each one of their respective religions teaches that there is only one true religion.

My only fear is that any harm should come to anyone because of their individual faith. We all have a right to believe as we chose and express those beliefs and when people committed to any faith express an interest in stopping or fighting the rights of others to do the same I feel that they are entering dangerous territory. This is fertile ground for fanaticism. We will all know the real truth when die but until that day we must find a way to live peacefully and share this planet. I hope that mankind will somehow manage to evolve beyond the point of committing atrocities against those that disagree.

I am sad for your (collective) bad feelings directed against people like Oprah and Eckhart as I feel it a waste of energy that would be better spent in a more positive endeavor to serve God. Let God be the judge and let us seek the answers to reconcile our own existence in accordance with any one chosen doctrine. We should all be very careful about the language we use to express disagreement with the ideas of others. If the ideas don’t ring true for you, say so. There is no need to devalue another human being for seeking answers outside your safety zone and please don’t feel the need to stop them.

We all struggle with the big questions, it’s all part of being human and as long as we live in these bodies, the struggle will continue. Try not to identify that struggle in others as something spurned from evil. I am quite sure that some of those with other faiths feel equally afraid of and angered by catholics. Should they? I don’t think so.

 

[joeacatholic]

I don’t think you should necessarily stay out of this forum just because you are not catholic. I will always try to embrace your ideas and comments with an open mind. And I appreciate the response. Like I said, I think I understand some of the philosophy behind Tolle’s book, as far as tolerance goes, but I don’t believe people who subscribe to a faith with dogmatic beliefs are always claiming only they are right and everyone else is wrong. For example, I happen to know the Catholic faith doesn’t condemn people to hell for not believing in Christ. We say the path to God is through Christ yes, but we also claim that God and God alone has the power to judge ppl, not us humans, who are ignorant of such divine knowledge. And if you really think about it, Tolle’s beliefs contain dogma as well. “Humans have to evolve or die” seems to set a condition (rule that should be followed) and a consequence for not following it. I don’t agree that he is so tolerant either. He doesn’t seem agree with our faith, seing as how he disagrees with dogma. Isn’t that the same as saying he is right and we are wrong? Isn’t that what he was pointing out is wrong with our faith, exactly what he is doing?

 

[joeacatholic]

Anyways, I would encourage you to stay active in this forum, because believe it or not, I do appreciate non Catholic feedback, and didn’t mean to offend you if I have. You did make a good point that many of us are quite intolerant, even me sometimes, but I assure you, when we are being intolerant that does directly conflict with the teachings of our Church. We are, as far as I know, to be tolerant and love everyone as our Creator tolerates and loves us. God bless.

 

[patio]

Thanks so very much for your response. If everyone that was committed to a faith but still took the time and patience to make some kind of spiritual connection with ‘outsiders’ the world would be a better place.

I do a lot of searching and reading but have never actually posted on any forum, so for someone like me to be spending time to exchange ideas with Catholics may a little miracle in itself and I’m sure I would not have continued were it not for your encouragement. Looks like it might might be just you and me here anyway.

I am always a little skeptical of swallowing other people’s beliefs hook line and sinker, Tolle included. Yes you’re right he does seem pretty sure of himself as in ‘this is so and that is so’ rather than ‘i believe this is so etc.’ Is that what you mean by dogma? Since you’ve read him you know he is all about finding the true self that resides somewhere in the stillness between a thought and one’s awareness of the thought. That’s where he gets all his answers and he writes and talks about what he knows, rather than what he believes, no question for him.

And yes, he does interpret direct quotes from the Bible quite differently than what we’ve probably heard before so that directly challenges the teachings of Catholicism( and others). For many of the Christians exploring his philosophy this is a problem. I think his propose is to give people from different faiths some common ground. By reinterpreting the different holy scriptures so that the messages remain consistent and we all find out we believe the same thing, there’d be nothing to kill each other over. This is not to say that he doesn’t authentically believe his interpretations are correct. Since there can be only one true God, God’s messages must all be the same if interpreted correctly and he seems to try and give each one credence rather than dismissing them as contrary to the ‘real truth’. I don’t think that’s been done before.

What attracts me though is his separation of the mind and spirit. We all get that the body gets left behind when we die but I think it’s a stretch for most people to conceive of leaving the mind behind as well. What, not think anymore? Then what would we be without thought in the hereafter? which begs the question, 'Who are we really?

His complete exploration of this ‘true self’ or what we might call soul or spirit seems pretty crucial to our connection with God. I think this is what has people listening. Separate the self from the mind and ego and we might get some answers as he claims he has.
I don’t think he means ‘evolve or die’ as anything other than a warning that we’ll all die because we’ll wind up killing each other over religion if we don’t recognize and acknowledge the role our egos play when it comes to war. Ego and God don’t mix, ego and hate/war does. No news there.

 

[joeacatholic]

Yes, and as a part of my faith I know I am called to deny myself. That was a direct instruction from Christ himself. For me, to deny myself (ego), I need my Church’s direction, otherwise I’m making it up as I go along, and still doing my will, which being what I want to do, is still tied in with my ego. As you can see, I do agree with some points Tolle makes, however, having given myself completely to God and his Church, I don’t easily sway from my beliefs. Not that I wouldn’t listen to someone’s argument or other side of the story, but seeing as I believe God instructs us through his Church, I wouldn’t change my beliefs. Believe me, it took me quite a while to get to this point, considering I used to be, myself, one of the biggest skeptics.

 

[Swan]

Our new site with the original Catholic Encyclopedia by Catholic Answers at oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Inquisition states the following:

Section II, (d) paragraph 9 states “*The Church, thenceforth, expelled from her bosom the impenitent heretic, whereupon the state took over the duty of his temporal punishment. *”. So it wasn’t necessarily the Catholic Church that performed the executions but, rather, the excommunications.

Paragraph 9 states:

“*The Number of Victims.—How many victims were handed over to the civil power cannot be stated with even approximate accuracy. We have nevertheless some valuable information about a few of the Inquisition tribunals, and their statistics are not without interest. At Pamiers, from 1318 to 1324, out of twenty-four persons convicted but five were delivered to the civil power, and at Toulouse from 1308 to 1323, only forty-two out of nine hundred and thirty bear the ominous note “relictus curiae saeculari”. Thus, at Pamiers one in thirteen, and at Toulouse one in forty-two, seem to have been burnt for heresy, although these places were hotbeds of heresy, and therefore principal centers of the Inquisition. We may add, also, that this was the most active period of the institution. These data and others of the same nature bear out the assertion that the Inquisition marks a substantial advance in the contemporary administration of justice, and therefore in the general civilization of mankind. A more terrible fate awaited the heretic when judged by a secular court. In 1249 Count Raymund VII of Toulouse caused eighty confessed heretics to be burned in his presence without permitting them to recant. It is impossible to imagine any such trials before the Inquisition courts. The large numbers of burnings detailed in various histories are completely unauthenticated, and are either the deliberate invention of pamphleteers, or are based on materials that pertain to the Spanish Inquisition of later times or the German witchcraft trials (Vacandard, op. cit., 237 sqq.). *”

History is being rewritten by anti-Catholic radicals and we seem helpless to stop it.

The Catholic Church was a political power in those days. To imply that they did not influence the secular court in the punishment of the “heretics” is disingenuous. I dislike overstatements and generalizations regardless of what “side” they come from, so don’t feel picked on.