BOOKS: A New Earth

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Ok. Lets not forget this, however you see it, is the past. Jews stoned ppl to death a long time ago. No one makes a big deal about that. Romans crucified ppl and had ppl mauled by lions. I don’t bash ppl that live in Rome. Communists murdered their own kind, I don’t hate Cubans. Southerners lynched black ppl. I don’t give people from Mississippi a hard time. To say that the Church today reflects any of this history, regardless of whether or not they had a part in these killings in the past, is ridiculous.
 
Besides, there was also a history of fighting heretics in a different context, try reading Augustine. I’m pretty sure he didn’t hurt anyone, even though he did indeed battle against heresy. And just to clarify for those who don’t know, he lived in, I believe, the fourth century. Oh yeah and St. Francis, probably the most gentle man to ever walk this earth, lived during the Crusades, and he had many peaceful, poverty vowed, obedient followers. Guess what, they were all, each and every one, nonviolent and Catholic at the same time.
 
It is easy to point out anything in bias to support a point, and I don’t deny some Catholics in the past and even some in the present do horrible things, but then again so do some protestants, muslims, athiests, agnostics, jews and everyone else on the face of the earth. Oh yeah, and I don’t feel picked on, but that is probably because my faith teaches me to be tolerant of others sarcasm and to accept persacution as a gift.
 
That is exactly the point. Take a look at human history and as if from another place and you see this species that not only murders and tortures its own, but actually enjoys watching it as entertainment. There are countless examples so nobody is singling out the Catholic church.

I’m not sure how the church views evolution but surely as a species we have evolved in many ways but we don’t seem to be getting a whole lot improved when it comes to living in peace and harmony. Our existence and sense of self is derived entirely from thought at this point in time and we need to become more conscious and aware of our thoughts. We think we are in control of them but in fact we are not. It’s like being in control of your own heartbeat or digestion, you aren’t. Whenever you feel that flash of anger in the pit of your stomach when someone disagrees with your beliefs take a moment and think about where that came from. What propose does it serve, do you really want it there? Can you control it or better yet release that energy in a way that won’t perpetuate that same feeling from person to person? If you understand how difficult that is than you understand that thoughts are not always voluntary so we all need to very aware of them.

Fast forward many thousands of years and what can you imagine? Providing the earth is still inhabitable, do you think we will have learned how to get along? If so, it’s not likely to have happened through the sort of unconscious thinking and reacting and ego feeding we engage in today. Well, many of us are now agreeing that we don’t have that much time. We need to speed things up and evolve more quickly or we will die off as a species as a result of not learning soon enough how to control this negative unconscious energy we are allowing to control us.

This is why I posted in the first place. I can observe the reaction some posters have to people like Tolle and Oprah as an unconscious and negative response to something contrary to their own beliefs and the only point I want to make is to please take care and think about what you think from a deeper place of consciousness. This is so totally not about the Catholic religion or anyone’s faith.

Personally I would hate to see anyone lose their faith. Real faith is rare indeed and takes a very strong character to maintain. I would be extremely uncomfortable making any effort to persuade someone away from their faith. We just all need to very aware that negative thoughts toward others and ego feeding can be a natural human response to any threat to ‘me’ ‘mine’. ‘us’ ‘our’ thinking can be even more powerful as the collective energy of a whole group of egos. Boy when that goes south, look out.
 
I agree that there is and has been a lot of wrong in this world. However, I don’t agree that just because I view Oprah or Tolle as “wrong” means that I necesarrily contribute to it. I also agree with the point that many people miss most of what their faith consists of. I don’t think I would exclude myself from that list. However, we all have hang ups. Even Tolle. Even the saintliest of saints. Even the Dhali Lama. That is what makes us sinners. This is unavoidable. We are imperfect, and stained with sin. Following Tolle’s beliefs aren’t to me any better than following anyone’s ideas ever. Communism for example, started out with the best intentions. I think the whole system is wrong and atheistic and it places no value in humanity, which just isn’t true, but it started out as looking out for the “working class”. However, look at Stalin. Look at the Soviet genocide. The secret police. Horrible. Their is nothing promising that Tolle’s beliefs would not be taken in that direction as well. Tolle wants us to be perfect and non judgemental, but even he cant do it. It shows in his writing. That is where God comes in. The command in the Gospel that has always had the most effect on me was when Christ told us to “deny ourselves, pick up our cross and follow Him.” Now, this is one of the main precepts of my faith. My point is that this, for me and many other catholics is done through a very organized and dogmatic religion. So Tolle’s argument against organized thought that I’m right and you are wrong busts. My Lord, and my faith following my Lord’s instructions also say not to be judgemental. “Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?” says the Gospel. Well, in following my Church I do just what Tolle says is right. To deflate the ego. Giving in to my Church and God and following their rules, instead of my own philosophy, is me doing his will, instead of my own. I do believe their is only one path to salvation, through our Lord Jesus Christ. I do believe that the one true Church is my Church. This doesn’t mean, that I’m right and your wrong. It means the Church, established by God, and through it God is present to us, is right, and we are all wrong. I’m as far from perfect as you get, and believe me, with my limited humanistic understanding, I would never claim to be right about anything. I am nothing but a common ordinary fool. But, when something right comes forth from me, it is God using me as a tool to do his work. And without my very strict interpretation of what it means to be Catholic, I, today, very well might be one of the people in this world commiting those evils that Tolle himself describes as what is wrong with humanity.
 
I just heard about this book recently from my sister who just last week told me she practices Buddhism… this week she told me she is into “A New Earth”. From the few things I have read about the book today I have come to this conclusion (may be premature to say this) it sounds a lot like what Satan said to Adam and Eve in the Garden… go ahead, eat the fruit, you’ll be just like God… not an exact quote!
 
francinew said:
I just heard about this book recently from my sister who just last week told me she practices Buddhism… this week she told me she is into “A New Earth”. From the few things I have read about the book today I have come to this conclusion (may be premature to say this) it sounds a lot like what Satan said to Adam and Eve in the Garden… go ahead, eat the fruit, you’ll be just like God… not an exact quote!
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Well, it is a good thing that your sister is trying to answer the call that God gives us to better understand Him. A lot of people do a lot of searching before they come to the Truth. Don’t be too critical of her, you may spoil a later opportunity to evangelize. The best advice I was ever given about this situation, concerning my sisters not being Christian but both believing in God, was to set a good example, and when opportunities rise, to show through both actions and words, but mostly actions, the Goodness and Truth which is our Lord. When people are exposed to the Truth (which means also not judging others), they know it to be, absolutely and undeniably, the real thing. Then they have to embrace it, or consciously turn away from it. God bless you and your sister, I will pray for both of you! :gopray2:
 
Any fans of the TV show Mythbusters out there? One of the hosts once described something as being not just wrong, but “wrongety wrongety wrong!” It became a bit of a catchphrase around our house. Anyway, I read something this morning that really resonated with me. It was Fr. Ron Rohlheiser’s syndicated column titled “A Spirituality of Martyrdom” in my diocesan paper. Although he wasn’t specifically talking about “A New Earth,” I thought his words were a perfect illustration of why Eckhart’s core ideas are just wrongety wrongety wrong. Fr. Rohlheiser begins by saying:

*"Only if we adore something beyond ourselves will we stop adoring ourselves.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin said as much when we wrote that we reach moral maturity on the day that we realize that we really only have one choice in life: Genuflect before something higher or begin to self-destruct.

Simone Weil agreed: Despite being a fierce defendant of independence and private conscience, she makes it clear that the deepest need within the human soul is the need to be obedient to something beyond ourselves. Without this, she states, we inflate and grow silly, even to ourselves.

We know the truth of this through experience. We feel within ourselves a constant, congenital press towards a healthy self-abnegation and the adoration of something higher than ourselves. We only feel good about ourselves when we don�t put ourselves at the centre of the world and we only feel right about what we are doing when we are giving our lives away, when, as Richard Rohr says, our lives are not about ourselves."*

Exactly! Our lives are not about ourselves. Which is kind of what Tolle says with his dog and pony show about the ego, but without the oh so crucial “genuflect before something higher” part. The complete column and others are available at www.ronrohlheiser.com. Fr. Rohlheiser’s work is always uplifting and thought provoking.
 
Just an observation here, but (again) it seems the general consensus here about the book comes from quotes from others as no one here (with one possible exception plus myself) has ever actually read the book. Just the fact that you continue to state negative opinions of Tolle’s message continues to support him. Your ego is stuck and you have become identified with your chosen religion and this is who (you think) you are. Your soul has no say in the matter if you use only your thoughts. When you are ready to explore who the ‘you’ really is, pick up a copy (at the library), and then feel free to express an original thought of your own on the topic.

If any of us actually had some direct quotes in language similar to what we currently use to communicate and which actually came from God, we would not be having this discussion.

My big gripe about the different religions is that they are all recreated from different human understandings of what (in the case of Christianity) Christ actually said or what he actually meant when he said it. Anything any human said or says is pure conjecture at this point so it’s no wonder there are so many different beliefs, even different versions of the Bible and Christianity. People continue to put their own personal stamp on what Jesus really meant us to know and practice.

The only truth is the one that comes directly from God to each and every one of us. It is innately ours and we are only just beginning to be awakened to it. Tolle only provides guidance in opening the door but is not asking to be held up as leader of anything and ,in fact, specifically asks not to be. Instead he provides support for our oneness and the ‘is-ness’ from those like Christ that understood that God is everywhere and within everyone. He speaks to everyone and illustrates our oneness by showing how Christ and Buddha (for example) meant the same thing. There is nothing to disagree with as he only guides you to find it within. You can do so from within your chosen faith.

When you stop thinking within the limits of form (the brain) you will begin to understand, but not until. Our lives are now centered on form when in fact, most everything is made of the formless or space around the form. Even the chair you are sitting on is made of molecules consisting of more space than particles. Energy surrounds us and sustains us and we are just beginning to understand that even our bodies respond to energy manipulation that doctors cannot explain. Bio feedback, accupressure etc. Concentrate only on your breath a few minutes a day and stop thinking, the rest will follow and you won’t need any book. Look at objects and consider the formlessness that holds them together. Listen to the sounds, so many at one place in one time yet separated and distinct. Consider a tree. If you can do this without guidance, you don’t need Tolle or any religion.

Since any belief in God specifies a single God, however that God may manifest itself in your mind, any belief that teaches separatism as opposed to the whole when discussing our experience here on earth (or elsewhere for that matter) must be false.

Your language continues to separate us. Tolle’s ideas allow for us to be all together. Stop reacting to one idea without understanding the whole premise. It is exceedingly deep yet amazingly simple and it can not be approached with a closed mind. You have a right to disagree but better to know what you’re disagreeing with first.

If not, it is like being the sheep. The poster who suggested you hold on to those you love regardless of your opposing religions seems closest to his soul and to God. Maybe ‘the meek’ meant ‘the egoless’. Do you really know? And what’s that got to do with being a certain religion anyway?
 
Whoops, my bad, Patio, forgot you were here! 🙂 What I should have said was that, after reading the book (and I did) and meaning no disrespect to anyone who does find it helpful, I have formed the personal opinion that it is a.) not in line with Catholic teaching and b.) not going to be helpful to me in my growth as a Catholic Christian. I think it’s okay for me, especially on a forum at Catholic.com, to say I think it’s wrong. If that means my “ego is stuck,” I’m okay with that. In my personal life, I think I’m a pretty peaceful person who tries to treat everyone with respect. I do “hold on to those I love regardless of our opposing religions,” and I like to give others the benefit of the doubt that they do, too. While you’re very welcome to participate in this forum, you should understand that I came here looking to discuss the book with my like-minded “peeps,” so to speak. If I wanted to fight, I would have gone to the Oprah forum. 😉 Peace and all good.
 
Thank you to those of you who replied to my question about “The New Earth”.1. am planning on reading the book as I don’t think you can agree or refute something of which you have no knowledge . 2. I appreciate the support, ie; that I shouldn’t alienate my sister… I had no intention of doing that… it came to me after I got off the phone with her that I do know what love is. I realized it didn’t matter if she wanted to build a wall between us… if she did, it would only be her wall as I wasn’t participating. I love her.

It then occurred to me that this is exactly what Our Heavenly Father does, albeit, in a MUCH superior way. When we choose to sin or walk away from Him He still loves us and wants us to be happy. He is willing to wait for us to get our heads screwed on and come back to Him. Not that I think my sister needs to come back to me in the same way but just that I will be there for her if and when she wants me or needs me.

Another thought that occurred to me regarding this book and much of the new age spirituality was this: It seems that most of these philosophies have a basic idea in reverse.That is, they suggest I figure out who I am and how God relates to me and then who God is and how I relate to Him. When it should be the other way around! How simple and pure this method is. After all, God did create the universe and everything in it and saw that it was good… I guess that would include me! So who am I to question His wisdom. I am made in His image and likeness and I ask always to do His will… if I miss the mark I can go to confession and try again… He loves me and my sister and all of us, including “patio” even when we don’t know it. Isn’t that awesome?
 
Well put francinew. A lot of people miss the true meaning of Christianity. Yes, we believe in one God, three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But, as it was put by both our Holy Father and other inspired members of the Church including Fr. Corapi, Catholics are not called to be tolerant and loving in spite of the mistakes that others make, but the very essence of Christianity IS being tolerant and not judging the mistakes of others. Lord knows I make enough mistakes myself, and one I try not to make is being prideful: thinking I am better than anyone else.

I am called to compare myself to no one but Christ, and guess what, I fall short every time. Yes, we are right. There is nothing wrong with claiming the One True Church. I do not sin by denying the Church or our God, but I know I commit a seriously GRAVE sin when I think I know the Truth. There is only One who knows the Truth, and the minute I think I know any better than anyone else I am trying to play his role. I would rather make mistakes in how I percieve God than to be so arrogant as to think I can do his job better than Him. I am probably the most unworthy person in this forum, therefore how could I judge any of you?

So my disagreement with Tolle is not passing a judgement on his character, or seeing the mistakes he may make, it is about the philosophy and theology in his book, as they so blatently disagree with the Doctrine of the Faith. I don’t find Tolle himself a devilish man who is trying to take people from the faith, but am more concerned about the writing itself which may hurt people (in my opinion.) I don’t disagree that he may very well have good intentions trying to help people, but I too, back in my years as a know it all, athiestic philosophy major, tried to help others by showing them the ignorance of religion; that it was just the world’s way of trying to keep the oppressed content with their poor meaningless lives. They should give up God, and start demanding better for themselves. Wow, I think now, who was the ignorant one?

Well thank the Lord Jesus Christ, that He brought about a seriously painful and frightening conversion in me. I think He knew that was the only way to bring a stubborn man that was so full of himself around. So how could I judge Tolle, when my beliefs at one point were even more damaging than his?

I’m sorry for any Catholic, or any person for that matter, that hates anyone. We are all judgemental to some extent, we can’t help being imperfect, but I’m glad today that I have a merciful God that knows I am sincerely trying my best to follow his Word and his example.

May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with all of you, and may we all one day live as saints in his Kingdom, which has no end. :blessyou:
 
As Chatholic I see this boo do a good job to point out ,
what most pries fail to do ; as most of them can do is quting scritures , and fail to explane what Christ meant.

Christ Said : Kingdom of God is within you ?

If any of you dear brothers in Christ can tell us , where is God’s kingdom within you or me or us , please define .

Tolle ( may be not knowing) puts it solidlidly simply : Conect with Awarenes , Peace or I am Life within you ; without judging but loving present God’s given Moment , people and get ispiration of all His creation.
That is the kingdom Christ was talking about.

I wish my our priests woul preach this way , not boring mubling and beside that like salesman who does not beleive in his product.
They - or better we learn what is good from from Tolli’s Book .
He is not new age quick fix USA $ looking evangelist .

No offence meant and respect to all Priests but not $ like loking evangelist.

KIngdom of god is win us you ?
Regardes with love toall.
teranian.
Pardon my spelling…
 

Being new here ; big hello Hello to every one !​

Teranian

As Chatholic I see this book does a good job to point out ,
what most priests fail to do ; as most of them can only is quoting scpritures , and fail to explane what Christ meant.

Christ Said : Kingdom of God is within you ?

If any of you dear brothers in Christ ; can tell us , where is God’s kingdom within you or me or us , please define .

Tolle ( may be not knowing) puts it solidlidly simply : Conect with Awarenes , Peace or I am Life within you ; without judging but loving present God’s given Moment , people and get inspiration of all His creation
.
That is the kingdom Christ was talking about.​

I wish my our priests woul preach this way , not boring mubling and beside that like salesman who does not beleive in his product.
They - or better we learn what is good from from Tolli’s Book .
He is not new age quick fix USA $ looking evangelist .

No offence meant and respect to all Priests .

KIngdom of god be within you ?​

Regardes with love to all.
teranian.
Pardon my spelling…
 
francinew said:
I just heard about this book recently from my sister who just last week told me she practices Buddhism… this week she told me she is into “A New Earth”. From the few things I have read about the book today I have come to this conclusion (may be premature to say this) it sounds a lot like what Satan said to Adam and Eve in the Garden… go ahead, eat the fruit, you’ll be just like God… not an exact quote!
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So I suppose actually trying to READ the book would be out of the question…because obviously you somehow know, without even reading 50 pages of it, that this book is pure evil…😉
 
Welcome!

I believe that Christ also forbid us to judge others. If the priests don’t preach to your standards maybe it is not their fault communicating, but our fault for not listening. I know that sometimes I don’t understand or even particulary care for a certain priests sermon, but I believe their is someone out there that it is helping, given that it is in fidelity to Catholic teaching.

If our priests are deliberately or even accidentally teaching something not in accordance with the faith, then it is our job to confront them, but not to criticise, only in concern that they may be filling the minds of others with false ideas.

And, I for one, like to hear priests quoting scripture, because often times by doing that they indeed do point out what Christ meant. After all, don’t our beliefs, laws, and guides to life, as Catholics, stem from the Gospel? I see nothing wrong with the Word of God.

Not all priests can preach like Fr. Corapi, but if they are bringing the Gospel into ppls lives they’re doing fine. (Note: I said bringing the Gospel, not A New Earth into peoples lives.) Tolle does make some good points that do indeed coincide with the teaching of the faithful, but he makes some claims that directly oppose Catholic doctrine too. (And this is directed to Catholics, not people that have a problem with Catholic teaching. That is another can of worms.)

It is an important job for priests to preach yes, but also keep in mind that their primary purpose as priests are to celebrate the liturgy of the Eucharist. To me that is the more important part of Mass.

Anyways,

God bless all of you (especially the one’s who don’t believe) and know you all are in my prayers.

Joseph Anthony Arsenius Therese
teranian said:

Being new here ; big hello Hello to every one !​

Teranian

As Chatholic I see this book does a good job to point out ,
what most priests fail to do ; as most of them can only is quoting scpritures , and fail to explane what Christ meant.

Christ Said : Kingdom of God is within you ?

If any of you dear brothers in Christ ; can tell us , where is God’s kingdom within you or me or us , please define .

Tolle ( may be not knowing) puts it solidlidly simply : Conect with Awarenes , Peace or I am Life within you ; without judging but loving present God’s given Moment , people and get inspiration of all His creation
.
That is the kingdom Christ was talking about.​

I wish my our priests woul preach this way , not boring mubling and beside that like salesman who does not beleive in his product.
They - or better we learn what is good from from Tolli’s Book .
He is not new age quick fix USA $ looking evangelist .

No offence meant and respect to all Priests .

KIngdom of god be within you ?​

Regardes with love to all.
teranian.
Pardon my spelling…
Click to expand...
 
patio said:
This is my first post as I stumbled upon this site while googling to get some actual historical details about what Mr. Tolle refers to in his comment about 3 - 5 million women being tortured or killed as a result of the Holy Inquisition which was ‘an institution founded by the Roman Catholic church to suppress heresy’. That was news to me too and I thought I’d check it out.

I followed this thread and thought I should comment as I have read both of Mr. Tolle’s books and am watching the Oprah web casts, although have not taken a look at the discussion forums. I haven’t yet got any actual numbers on the deaths of women due to ‘the Inquisition’ but find those actual numbers to be less relevant after seeing the types of comments made on this forum.

I am pretty well informed about the Bible and also about Buddhism having been interested and respectful of the different religions for many years.

Mr. Tolle’s point was that different sectors of society, be it race, religious affiliation, gender etc. suffer a kind of collective pain due to selective persecution a different times in Mankind’s history. This fact is indisputable and since there seems to be a lot of disagreement among scholars about the different ‘Inquisitions’, who was responsible and how many people were actually killed as heretics in the name of God, let’s just leave that point to rest.

There seems to be some misconception about Mr. Tolle’s philosophy/ teachings being an attack on any religion in particular. He just believes that the messages given to us by Jesus, Siddartha (Buddha) and other ‘enlightened beings’ were misinterpreted. Certainly re-interpretation of the translations of the Bible is nothing new. What is a bit frightening to me though is the amount of sarcasm and harsh words like ‘evil’ and ‘fight’ and words to the effect that this man must be stopped.

If ever there was support for Mr. Tolle’s beliefs it can be found right here in this forum by the apparent fear and anger displayed toward something that apparently none of you has even read. You’re faith is wonderful and I for one would never try to talk someone out of such a gift but for those of us that are not as convinced as you seem to be, why not let us seek as we find fit and follow our own paths. Live and let live. At least we are seeking God, how bad can that be?

What Mr. Tolle is trying to do is to raise awareness to the fact that there may be many paths to God and if we don’t become more tolerant (which would require us to evolve somewhat) we will in fact all kill each other hence ‘evolve or die’. I think if you actually read his words with an open mind you would not find any evil, only what he calls ‘sign posts’ pointing those willing to look inward to separate the body, mind and soul. Our thinking minds are not our souls so if we could in-fact come in closer contact with our souls it would seem a more direct path to God. If you prefer your way then fine, no one is calling you evil or trying to fight you. Look inside and find the love, that’s your true self, the rest is ego. Picking a fight with those of us who disagree and trying to ‘stop’ people from seeking truth certainly can not be the way to God.

As far as Oprah goes, she is just doing everything she can to make this world a better place and use the power she has through the media responsibly. She has denounced no one’s religion or ideas which is more than I can say for some writers on this forum. Be grateful for your faith and make your own peace with God. Let that peace touch all those you come in contact with God’s love and you will have greater success in attracting followers. Peace.
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Amen, Peace. This post is filled with fear mongering and hate. It makes me wonder why everyone feels so threatened by such non demonational philosophy. Sad.
 
fnz2thrght said:
See, this is where people have trouble. There is ONLY one path to God.
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Please cite your evidence. I cant believe people actually say things like this.
Why are you any different that muslims or jews or any other religion based on historical tomes?

And yes, I’m Catholic, but the extremism is disturbing.
 
Jesus is not an “enlightened Being” , He is God, the 2nd person of the Trinity. He died on the cross for our sins and 3 days later rose from the dead to open the gates of heaven for us. Buddah may be “enlightened”, I don’t know but I don’t believe he died for us. It is my understanding that his desire for peace, although good, has no end in God. He has no place for your soul to go after death… except maybe to return as something different as in reincarnation. I’m no expert on Buddah but I think I did read this somewhere, sometime.
 
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