J
JRKH
Guest
Without knowing the particulars of the case involving this priest being sanctioned, I would simply say that a person can teach correctly on one subject and incorrectly on other subjects.
Peace
James
- Status
Peace
James
N
nice2000
Guest
What is wrong with teaching the authentic—Message of Fatima?
I have cross referenced and checked everything that the Fatima Center teachs just to see if it is the truth. Everywhere I have turned, what the Fatima Center teachs has confirmed to be the truth.
More people, especially Catholics, need to know the Miracle of the Sun story and why it happened. God perform miracles for very good reasons, so that all may believe. He sent his Mother, Our Lady of Fatima, to warn us that if Her requests were not heeded, Russia would “spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.”
The above has not happened yet including the Consecration of Russia. When God gives us a Prophecy it happens exactly like he says it is going to happen.
I have cross referenced and checked everything that the Fatima Center teachs just to see if it is the truth. Everywhere I have turned, what the Fatima Center teachs has confirmed to be the truth.
More people, especially Catholics, need to know the Miracle of the Sun story and why it happened. God perform miracles for very good reasons, so that all may believe. He sent his Mother, Our Lady of Fatima, to warn us that if Her requests were not heeded, Russia would “spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated.”
The above has not happened yet including the Consecration of Russia. When God gives us a Prophecy it happens exactly like he says it is going to happen.
M
manualman
Guest
I tend to shun books by folks who have the attitude that “the only good theologian is a dead theologian.” Such people (IMO) would have been just as critical of the saints they adore in their own age.
It’s easy to tear down. Not so easy to build.
It’s easy to tear down. Not so easy to build.
H
Holly3278
Guest
I don’t know anything about Christopher A Ferrara. Sorry. I would assume though that since he has been on EWTN his book might be safe. I wouldn’t read it without it having at least an imprimatur though.
Also, why would Christopher right a book that is critical of EWTN when he appears on EWTN several times?
S
storywriter
Guest
Does the book have an imprimatur?
S
surritter
Guest
Christopher Ferrara is a writer for “The Remnant” newspaper, which is not in line with Catholic teaching. If he was on EWTN in the past, I would venture that it was before he strayed to his current extreme views.
Regarding Fr. Gruner, I would say that even if he is teaching good things about the message of Fatima, that doesn’t automatically make him a reliable teacher of the Faith! It may even be more dangerous, because he could sound attractive to people who have gotten tired of certain liberal practices. But then he can use that in-road to lead them astray in other matters (e.g., Jansenism).
Regarding Fr. Gruner, I would say that even if he is teaching good things about the message of Fatima, that doesn’t automatically make him a reliable teacher of the Faith! It may even be more dangerous, because he could sound attractive to people who have gotten tired of certain liberal practices. But then he can use that in-road to lead them astray in other matters (e.g., Jansenism).
N
nice2000
Guest
In 1966 Pope Paul VI abolished the canon 1399 of the canonical code in the AAS 1186 (Basically the abolition of the Imprimatur), saying dogmaically and infallibly that publications about new appearanes, revelations, miracles, etc are allowed to be believed, distributed and read by the faithful without express permission of the Church, provided they contain nothing that contradicts the morals,teachings and traditions of the Catholic Church
Accordng to the ‘Decree of the Congregation for the Teaching of the Faith’ 7th March 1875entitled “Decree concerning the supervision of the Bishops of the Church over the Matter” an ecclesiastical imprimatur is only required for editions of the Bible and Literature concerning the liturgy and religous instruction.
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nice2000
Guest
Father Nicholas Grunar is not leading others astray. He is teaching others (especially Catholics) to become closer and endear the Catholic Faith. He teaches the true message of Fatima. There are many who do not even know the full story and why God sent his Mother to warn us. God does not send his Mother and Son to us for no reasons. The Miracle of the Sun is a very important part of history that should be known to the world so that all may be saved.
N
nice2000
Guest
I just now researched what you stated above. This is the first time I heard of the “The Remnant” newspaper. This is what I found. >> “The Remnant” is a Catholic National newspaper that was established in the year 1967. Show me or prove to me where it is not in line with the Catholic teaching? I will also do some more digging and research to see for myself. So far, from the looks of reading the online newspaper it does too fall in line with the Catholic teaching.
S
surritter
Guest
Fr. Gruner is indeed leading people astray because he is teaching that the Vatican is wrong about something that it has clarified time and again. He may not be teaching heresy, but he is bordering on schism. Look up the difference between those two words.
Fr. Gruner has been disciplined by Rome, but refuses to abide by that discipline. The Church is our Mother, and he is no different than a whiny pre-teen who insists that he is right.
The Remnant is well known as a publication that also holds schismatic views, a la Archbishop Lefebvre. Read the following web page, especially near the bottom:
geocities.com/catholic_traditionalist/
Fr. Gruner has been disciplined by Rome, but refuses to abide by that discipline. The Church is our Mother, and he is no different than a whiny pre-teen who insists that he is right.
The Remnant is well known as a publication that also holds schismatic views, a la Archbishop Lefebvre. Read the following web page, especially near the bottom:
geocities.com/catholic_traditionalist/
N
nice2000
Guest
You are correct, Father Grunar is not teaching heresy and he definately is not causing schism. He is teaching the truth. The Pope(s) along with the Vatican have approved the Fatima apparitions. This is what the Fatima Center teaches. The Fatima Center teaches the whole entire full message of The Miracle of the Sun. I and many others have not left the Roman Catholic Church because of the Fatima Center teachings. If anything, I/we have embraced the Roman Catholic Church even more so. No, there is no schism here. The world needs to know the true message of Fatima. It has been kept from many waaaay too long. This miracle was witnessed in front of 70,000 persons. For six months, Our Lady came with a message to warn the world of the annilhation of many nations if the correct Consecration of Russia is not completed and the entirety of the 3rd secret be revealed to the world.
N
nice2000
Guest
The Truth about the Suspension of Father Nicholas Grunar
Dispelling the Misleading
Announcement of Sept. 12, 2001
Regarding Father Nicholas Gruner
The Holy See has received several news reports concerning the so-called Conference for Peace in the World, which is being planned for Rome for October 7 to 13 and which has been organized by Fr. Nicholas Gruner of Canada. The Congregation for the Clergy, upon the mandate from a higher authority, wishes to state that Rev. Nicholas Gruner is under an ‘a divinis’ suspension, which has been confirmed by a definitive sentence of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signature. The activities of Fr. Gruner, therefore, including the above-mentioned conference, do not have the approval of legitimate ecclesiastical authorities.
fatima.org/news/newsviews/1pager.asp
Dispelling the Misleading
Announcement of Sept. 12, 2001
Regarding Father Nicholas Gruner
Code:
On September 12, 2001, the day after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, certain Vatican officials thought it more urgent to publish the following unprecedented “announcement” in L’Osservatore Romano concerning Father Nicholas Gruner, which read as follows:
Code:
This short reply is offered for the convenient reference of those who seek the truth.
(1) There are No Grounds for the Alleged “Suspension”: The “announcement” states no grounds for the alleged “a divinis” suspension, because there are none. Father Gruner was threatened with suspension by the Bishop of Avellino for “failing to be incardinated,” but only after the Vatican Secretary of State (who sent what the Bishop called “worried signals” about Father Gruner’s legitimate criticism of the Secretary of State’s anti-Fatima agenda) pressured him to recall Father Gruner unless he found another bishop.
(2) Incardination was Blocked: The Secretary of State and the Congregation for the Clergy then blocked offers of incardination from several friendly bishops, thus attempting to convict Father Gruner of “failing to obey” an order the Secretary of State was preventing him from obeying. But, the Archbishop of Hyderabad rejected this gambit, incardinated Father Gruner anyway, and courageously declared that “bureaucratic forces cannot stifle God’s work.”
(3) “Higher Authority” Remains Anonymous: The “announcement” states that the Congregation for the Clergy states that a “higher authority” (i.e. the Vatican Secretary of State) wishes the Congregation to state that the Apostolic Signatura states that Father Gruner’s “sentence” of “suspension” has been “confirmed.”
(4) Lack of Responsibility, Lack of Facts: As the “announcement” shows, no one takes responsibility for this “sentence,” provides its grounds, identifies the party who allegedly imposed the sentence or the date it was imposed. That is because there was no sentence to confirm, for no offense was committed. No offense was committed because Father Gruner did not “fail to be incardinated.” The Archbishop of Hyderabad incardinated him, and neither the Bishop of Avellino nor the Apostolic Signatura has ever responded to documentation, served on them more than 7 years ago, establishing Father Gruner’s incardination and rendering moot the Bishop’s never-realized threat of suspension—a threat that, in any event, constituted illicit coercion.
(5) Ploy to Silence Fatima: The alleged “suspension ‘a divinis’” rests, therefore, on thin air. It is a canonical ruse engineered by Vatican bureaucrats led by the Secretary of State, whose role in attempting to bury the authentic Message of Fatima, which Father Gruner has promoted for 29 years, is known to well-informed Catholics the world over.
(6) Approval Not Required: Neither the Fatima conference referred to in the “announcement,” nor any of the other activities of the Fatima Center’s apostolate, require “the approval of legitimate ecclesiastical authorities” which the “announcement” falsely implied were necessary. Here too the “announcement” is a canonical sham, because, as the Code of Canon Law provides, members of the faithful, including priests, do not need approval of ecclesiastical authority to hold conferences or to form private associations for the purpose of communicating with each other, and with the sacred pastors, on matters of concern in the Church (Canons 212 §§ 2, 3: 215, 216, 299, 300).
S
surritter
Guest
Well, I’m not quite sure what to make of your last two posts… I simply said that Fr. Gruner was bordering on schism because of his defiance about Russia being consecrated. There is no formal schism, but it’s still not wise to hold him up as a leader for the cause of Fatima. Do a search on these Forums for the words “Fatima” and “Gruner” together, and you’ll see the numerous debates. But it seems clear that whatever his status, we as the faithful are not to put our eggs in his basket.
It’s strange that you accept the Vatican’s approval of the Fatima apparitions (as do I) but then you do not accept the Vatican’s insistence that the consecration was already done. Isn’t that inconsistent? Or are you saying that the Vatican has fallen from being the true authority? Either way, there’s something about our faith in Christ’s Church that is being compromised.
Sr. Lucia said that the consecration of Russia has been accomplished. So why chase conspiracy theories? I’m glad you haven’t left the Catholic Church to join SSPX or some other group, but let’s listen to those who hold legitimate authority (while we pray hard for them!) when it comes to the third secret and the consecration of Russia.
It’s strange that you accept the Vatican’s approval of the Fatima apparitions (as do I) but then you do not accept the Vatican’s insistence that the consecration was already done. Isn’t that inconsistent? Or are you saying that the Vatican has fallen from being the true authority? Either way, there’s something about our faith in Christ’s Church that is being compromised.
Sr. Lucia said that the consecration of Russia has been accomplished. So why chase conspiracy theories? I’m glad you haven’t left the Catholic Church to join SSPX or some other group, but let’s listen to those who hold legitimate authority (while we pray hard for them!) when it comes to the third secret and the consecration of Russia.
N
nice2000
Guest
I am saying that the Vatican is not giving us the entire truth of the 3rd secret. My eggs (faith) are put in the 1917 Fatima Apparitions. Are you sure that Sister Lucia stated that the consecration of Russia has been accomplished? Are you referring to the “Letter of November 8, 1989”? According to Antonio Socci’s book “The Fourth Secret of Fatima”, there is NO letter. “Who is it addressed to? Published from where? There is not even a footnote. Why? And why was a photocopy NOT produced? No respectable publication, book or essay, not even a student thesis”
Please note that Antonio Socci is not a part of Father Grunar nor the Fatima Center. Mr. Socci actually believed at one time what you believe now. Mr. Socci is a scholar in the Fatima apparitions. He did his own research and found that the Vatican is definately keeping the truth from the world.
H
Hartmeister
Guest
So in other words you believe more in a private revelation in 1917, than in current public statements from the Chair of St. Peter
Of course there is no way I am sure of what Sister Lucia truly said, just like I truly don’t know that Washington was the first president of our Republic, nor the books of the Bible weren’t just made up in some sort of council just to give believers something to read. I depend upon authorities.
So in other words, lay journalist Antionio Socci ranks higher than Cardinal Bertone in your trust department?
From this logic I would have to accept every atheist who was once a Catholic is an authority since he was once a Catholic like myself?
I don’t know anything Mr Socci’s allegations in his book. However, I do know that Mr. Socci, is not a scholar of Fatima apparitions: he is a journalist. Please check out the wikipedia page on him. I believe his wikipedia article states that has a from Sienna in Romance Philology on the Divine Comedy. After his degree he became a professional journalist. Now he might be an amateur scholar of the events but saying someone is a scholar of a certain specialty implies something a lot more than a journalist who does digging into a subject and suspects a cover up. It implies some sort of graduate degree work on a subject.
N
nice2000
Guest
The “Miracle of the Sun” was performed in front of 70,000 witnesses so that all may believe. Yes I believe the “Private Revelation” in 1917. The “Private Revelation” has been approved by the Pope. All 70,000 persons saw this miracle and at that moment in time they all knew that it was the Mother of God. God sent his Mother to warn his children of what would happen if the Consecretion of Russia is not performed (correctly) and if the 3rd secret is not revealed to the entire world.
God has warned us that if the many errors do not stop that many souls will be lost. Do your research and see for yourself. Check out the link below. Russia has the highest abortion rate, Divorce rate, and Alcoholism rate then any other country throughout the world. There are many other errors that this country spread.
The facts are in the studies of the Library of Congress database.
Here’s the link. loc.gov/index.html
click on the link “Researchers” on the left.
Then click on the link “Federal Research Division,” It is listed under the title “Government Services” on the right midway down the page.
Click on the “go” button on the top right.
Then click on the “try it out” link on the left
Make sure the “Library of Congress website” box is checked.
Type in the Search Again box: DK510.23 .R883 1998 (this is the call number)
Type the words “Russia” and “abortions” in the boxes
Choose a Country Study: Russia
Search Russia: abortions
Select Search
Then select “Fertility”
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nice2000
Guest
Known Fact: The Bolsheviks (Russian) were the first to ever legalize the practice of abortions in the year of 1920. Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin banned it 16 years later only because the population decreased and that he was hoping to increase the birth rate to gather more soldiers and workers. Abortion was again fully legalized in 1955. As of today, Russia has the highest abortion rate then any other country 3 to 4 million abortions per year.
You can find the numbers in the Library of Congress. See my link in my previous post.
Again this is just one of the errors that this poor country spreads throughout the world. There are many others.
You can find the numbers in the Library of Congress. See my link in my previous post.
Again this is just one of the errors that this poor country spreads throughout the world. There are many others.
S
surritter
Guest
None of these facts supplants the fact that you doubt the authority of the Vatican to make judgement on matters that pertain to private revelation.
While there is room for dialogue on some of the implications of Fatima and the 3rd Secret, I respectfully point out that you seem to be pulling an old Protestant trick of saying “I know the truth better than the pope…”
While there is room for dialogue on some of the implications of Fatima and the 3rd Secret, I respectfully point out that you seem to be pulling an old Protestant trick of saying “I know the truth better than the pope…”
N
nice2000
Guest
I believe my Mother (the Mother of our Lord). She is above the Vatican.
Our Lady warned that: “If My requests are not heeded, Russia will spread her errors throughout the world, raising up wars and persecutions against the Church, the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer and various nations will be annihilated …”
Russia has not converted. Our Lady came to Fatima to ask the Consecration of Russia, not the World. Yes, there were Graces that were given to us (mankind) for consecrating the world in the last 6 attempts by the previous Popes, but Our Lady requested specifically that the Pope consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart. The Holy Mother promised that there would be true Peace throughout the entire world once her requests are heeded.
S
surritter
Guest
Be careful – the Church is our Mother, and also the Bride of Christ.
Mary is our Mother too, but in a different sense. And when She speaks through private revelation, it is the Church as Mother that guides us in its interpretation.
Mary is our Mother too, but in a different sense. And when She speaks through private revelation, it is the Church as Mother that guides us in its interpretation.
- Status