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billcu1
Guest
Are the books of Peter infallible? If so how and in what way? Did Peter declare them to be?
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e_c
Guest
They’re infallible because they’re Scripture, not because Peter was Prince of Apostles.
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TruthSeeker319
Guest
Peter’s books are infallible because they were inspired by the Holy Spirit, and they are a part of the scriptural canon that the Church has declared divine.
Here’s a good source:
catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=8427
Here’s a good source:
catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=8427
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thistle
Guest
Do you mean only the ones in the New Testament because there are other books/gospels attributed to Peter not included in the NT.
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billcu1
Guest
If your talking about other books not involving the Church that would be a different matter I guess. I’m only speaking of the Canon of the Roman Catholic Church. Another church or such as “The Book of Enoch {H’nauk)” they would have to speak for themselves. Nothing protestant.
What I am meaning is that NT. Or any NT scriptures by Paul (or attributed to him). Others are saying they are infallible because of being scripture. Not a “Papal” declaration by Peter. What “other books” are you speaking of ? “The Gospel of Peace”? Qumran, Nag Hamadi ? Roman Catholic Tradition? I’m only asking about Peter’s book in the Roman Catholic Church.
Bill
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billcu1
Guest
OK I see. So the Bible then is considered infallible? What exactly does infallibility mean here. So it’s not a declaration of Peter as Prince of the Apostles.
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PJM
Guest
“Infallibility” is a pre-existent condition of TRUTH, but did not exist in the manner of current understanding.
Because ALL that the Bible TEACHES is Inspired by God [2nd Tim 3:16-17]; EVERY teaching is to be given assent of our minds and wills.
Did Peter declare them to be? NO
GOD DID:thumbsup:
John 15:26
But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me.
John 14:26
But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you
God Bless and thanks for asking,
Patrick
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billcu1
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OK I see. What I am trying to understand is WHAT is infallible. I could get into historical errors and all that stuff. But I am not sure it matters. As you say a teaching. Infallible also refers to faith and morals AFAIK that is the only infallibility the church can declare. Am I right. And this declaration must’ve been around the 4th century right?
The Bible is not infallible. It is inerrant.
Peter was infallible when he wrote his letters. And more so, he was inspired. Inspiration would logically include infallibility.
Popes, when they fulfill the conditions, are infallible, but not inspired. If the Pope did not do his homework, infallibility would pretty much render him silent if he were about to define error. Papal infallibility does not inspire a pope to say something; it only ensures he does not define the wrong thing.
Peter was infallible when he wrote his letters. And more so, he was inspired. Inspiration would logically include infallibility.
Popes, when they fulfill the conditions, are infallible, but not inspired. If the Pope did not do his homework, infallibility would pretty much render him silent if he were about to define error. Papal infallibility does not inspire a pope to say something; it only ensures he does not define the wrong thing.
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billcu1
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Hum OK Inspired, infallible are two different things. Ok at that time did these letters have terms like bulls or encyclicals? Peter 1 and 2 and Acts I would say, if memory serves me correct was by Peter. How do we know he was inspired. My point is I am still trying to learn different levels of Papal speech to the church. The thing is most of the NT was by Paul. Now was he inspired?
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rcwitness
Guest
Inspired is not the same as Infallible or Inerrant.
In essence, yes. And I’m guessing that Peter’s letters were regarding as Scripture immediately by those who received them.
Acts was written by Luke.
The Church, using Tradition and her gift of Infallibility, discerned and declared which books were Scripture, and so Inspired or Breathed by God. One of Peters letters confirms Paul’s letters as Scripture:
2 Peter 3:15-17
“And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this[a] as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.”
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PJM
Guest
OK
Infallibility while IN the Bible, is nevertheless, not pointed out in the Bible as being Infallible.
That said: the term itself is more recent theological therm to express it’s particular application.
**The RCC teaches that TEACHING in the bible is TRUE, and that fact makes ALL of them defacto: infallible. **
Everything contained within the bible and taught by the RCC is therefore to be give at least assent of our minds, hearts and wills:thumbsup:
My friend, does that answer your question?
God Bless you,
Patrick
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PJM
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HOW can that be?
IF you mean UNAPPROVED bboks. there is a Holy Spirit guided reason why they are not included
God Bless you,
Patrick
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PJM
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yes is does INCLUDE that declaration.
Mt 16:18-19
[18] “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven”.
"[18] And I say to YOU: That YOU art Peter; and upon {YPU PETER} this rock I will build my church, [singular} and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to {YOU PETER} the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever {YOU PETER} shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever {YOU PETER} shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
God Bless you,
Patrick
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alwayswill
Guest
An interesting discussion:yes is does INCLUDE that declaration.
Mt 16:18-19
[18] “And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven”.
"[18] And I say to YOU: That YOU art Peter; and upon {YPU PETER} this rock I will build my church, [singular} and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. [19] And I will give to {YOU PETER} the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever {YOU PETER} shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever {YOU PETER} shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
God Bless you,
Patrick
in another thread I have been corrected several times when saying Scripture is infallible (incapable of being in error):
I have been told that a writing can only be inerrant (contains no error) it cannot be infallible (incapable of being in errorr)
I have been told that there is no such thing as an infallible writing.
a CA link here
catholic.com/magazine/articles/the-bible-is-not-infallible
Karl Keating states
"But a rock is never infallible. Nor is it fallible. It is neither because it makes no decision about anything. Ditto for a plant. No sunflower ever made the right decision—or the wrong decision. In fact, no sunflower ever made any decision, properly speaking.
The same can be said of a book. No book, not even the Bible, is capable of making a decision. This means it would be wrong to say that the Bible is either infallible or fallible—such terms should not be used about it or about any other book."
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mattp0625
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The Church syonds that ultimately decided the canon took place in the 4th century, well after Peter’s lifetime.
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guanophore
Guest
Scripture is considered inspired and inerrant. Actions of persons are considered fallible or infallible. Peter was acting infallibly when he wrote the books.
it is a good source, but not itself inerrant.
Where did you find Scripture described as infallible in this article?
They are correct that the Scriptures were created through an infallible act of the Holy Spirit the moment they were written. They were affirmed to be so by an infallible decaration of Peter, and his successors.
The bible is considered an infallible collection of inspired and inerrant books.
No, the letters infallibly penned by Peter are not a declaration about his being considered prince of the Apostles. All the books of Scripture are considered inspired and inerrant, including those not written by apostles.
Peter referred to the writings of Paul as Scripture, thereby attesting them to be inspired and inerrant. But I think those qualities are being misaligned with infallibility, which is a quality of persons, not books, however Holy.
John 15:26
But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me.
John 14:26
But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you
God Bless and thanks for asking,
Patrick
The Paraclete is infallible, because He is a person, and makes acts of the will. Scriptures do not have this quality.
The Church uses this term a little differently than the modern culture. The gift of infallibility was given by Jesus to the Church to prevent her from falling into error. Human beings can participate in infallible acts when moved to do so by the Holy Spirit. The writing of Scripture is such an infallible act.
The teachings of Jesus are preserved infallibly by the Holy Spirit in the Church.
Of course they were not called “bulls or encyclicals”! They were written in Greek, not Latin. They were dispersed like modern encyclicals are,
Acts was written by Luke.
The Holy Spirit infallibly revealed to the Church that all the books of the NT are inspired.
Yes, it seems that your question has to do with the levels of teaching in the Church. It is not just “papal” but magesterial. The gift of infallibilty is also exercised by Councils.
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guanophore
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billcu1
Guest
The Paraclete is infallible, because He is a person, and makes acts of the will. Scriptures do not have this quality.Scripture is considered inspired and inerrant. Actions of persons are considered fallible or infallible. Peter was acting infallibly when he wrote the books.
it is a good source, but not itself inerrant.
Where did you find Scripture described as infallible in this article?
They are correct that the Scriptures were created through an infallible act of the Holy Spirit the moment they were written. They were affirmed to be so by an infallible decaration of Peter, and his successors.
The bible is considered an infallible collection of inspired and inerrant books.
No, the letters infallibly penned by Peter are not a declaration about his being considered prince of the Apostles. All the books of Scripture are considered inspired and inerrant, including those not written by apostles.
Peter referred to the writings of Paul as Scripture, thereby attesting them to be inspired and inerrant. But I think those qualities are being misaligned with infallibility, which is a quality of persons, not books, however Holy.
John 15:26
But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me.
John 14:26
But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you
God Bless and thanks for asking,
Patrick
The Church uses this term a little differently than the modern culture. The gift of infallibility was given by Jesus to the Church to prevent her from falling into error. Human beings can participate in infallible acts when moved to do so by the Holy Spirit. The writing of Scripture is such an infallible act.
The teachings of Jesus are preserved infallibly by the Holy Spirit in the Church.
Of course they were not called “bulls or encyclicals”! They were written in Greek, not Latin. They were dispersed like modern encyclicals are,
Acts was written by Luke.
The Holy Spirit infallibly revealed to the Church that all the books of the NT are inspired.
Yes, it seems that your question has to do with the levels of teaching in the Church. It is not just “papal” but magesterial. The gift of infallibilty is also exercised by Councils.
OK I’ve seen Bishops have this thing called Nihil Obstat somehow free from error. Then the scriptures are when written infallible. But in what way? Morally? They’ve certainly changed meanings, literal meaning in the centuries but is this a faith. Faith saves.
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guanophore
Guest
Actually the Nihil Obstat is given by someone who is usually not a bishop, but is appointed by one. This is a stamp of approval given to items written by Catholics (usually laypeople).OK I’ve seen Bishops have this thing called Nihil Obstat somehow free from error. Then the scriptures are when written infallible. But in what way? Morally? They’ve certainly changed meanings, literal meaning in the centuries but is this a faith. Faith saves.
When a Catholic writes a book on faith, morals, theology, liturgy, books on prayer, editions of Sacred Scripture, etc., the writer can submit his manuscript to his diocese’s Censor. If the Censor finds no problem with it, he will give it his stamp, which reads “Nihil Obstat,” or “nothing stands in the way.” He then sends it to the Bishop for his review. If the Bishop finds nothing objectionable, he gives the book his “Imprimatur” which means, “let it be printed.”
This is not required, but seeking this approval lets the faithful know that the contents of the book have been reviewed and should not cause the reader to stumble in their faith.
The Church teaches that the authors of scripture were prevented from error when pennng them, and they are inspired (God breathed) and inerrant.
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