Books on Carmelite Spirituality

[fide]

These have nothing to do with Carmelite Spirituality.

Just so people are aware, there is much more to Carmelite Spirituality than just Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross.

The above link to ICS publishing is a good one to go too.

Also check out the Carmelite Institute at this link.

carmeliteinstitute.org/

Hello Br. David,

This is probably a topic for another thread, but your strong comment led me to think… Is it possible for an authentic Christian spirituality to “have nothing to do with” another authentic Christian spirituality?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hello Br. David,

This is probably a topic for another thread, but your strong comment led me to think… Is it possible for an authentic Christian spirituality to “have nothing to do with” another authentic Christian spirituality?

In a way, as I see it, yes. As the focus of the Charisms are different, the focus of their Spirituality will be different.

 

[fide]

In a way, as I see it, yes. As the focus of the Charisms are different, the focus of their Spirituality will be different.

But the “focus of the charisms” is the same: Christ. The point of any spirituality is to facilitate the vocation of the human soul. All souls bear the imprint of the same God, all are called to the same vocation, beatitude in Him; all are enabled in that common vocation by the same grace given by the same Spirit.

A friend of mine was once told by her religious superiors, when she questioned the indulgent life-style of her convent, “Well, we’re not Franciscans!” As if the “charism” of Gospel poverty is different for different Christians. As if only Franciscans are to take the vow of poverty seriously. (Having visited some monasteries, of course, I have discovered some new and revised definitions for the vow even among Franciscans.)

However, I’m talking about something a bit different from this kind of “charism” here. Is not the stage of the Beginner or the Proficient the same for every soul, whether he thinks of himself as a Franciscan or a Benedictine or a Carmelite? If he finds himself in the dark night of the senses or of the spirit, is his suffering and his salvation not the same regardless of his spirituality?

I’d be grateful for your thoughts…

 

[Lifeisawesome]

If he finds himself in the dark night of the senses or of the spirit, is his suffering and his salvation not the same regardless of his spirituality?

I’d be grateful for your thoughts…

Yes - but we are typically called to a particular charism - the all tributaries lead to the same river argument is fine but we are not all called to follow the same tributaries in our spiritual lives. It is immaterial that they are part of the same source or destination. It is sort of like saying that all Catholics are Christians- of course they are - so what does that now leave me - does that help me on my journey? Not likely.

Without a solid foundation of any particular charism one can fall into confusion and diversion along important paths of resolution. If you feel called to Carmelite spirituality, stick with it until you learn these paths with clarity. Then you can dip into other wells of blessing with out causing confusion. If you are called to Benedictine… the same. The only order of the day is ensuring that the wells you draw from are as pure as is possible (i.e. faithful to the magisterium etc).

 

[Sister_Helena]

But the “focus of the charisms” is the same: Christ. The point of any spirituality is to facilitate the vocation of the human soul. All souls bear the imprint of the same God, all are called to the same vocation, beatitude in Him; all are enabled in that common vocation by the same grace given by the same Spirit.

A friend of mine was once told by her religious superiors, when she questioned the indulgent life-style of her convent, “Well, we’re not Franciscans!” As if the “charism” of Gospel poverty is different for different Christians. As if only Franciscans are to take the vow of poverty seriously. (Having visited some monasteries, of course, I have discovered some new and revised definitions for the vow even among Franciscans.)

However, I’m talking about something a bit different from this kind of “charism” here. Is not the stage of the Beginner or the Proficient the same for every soul, whether he thinks of himself as a Franciscan or a Benedictine or a Carmelite? If he finds himself in the dark night of the senses or of the spirit, is his suffering and his salvation not the same regardless of his spirituality?

I’d be grateful for your thoughts…

Hello, I’m a Carmelite Sister and I would just like to put in my two cents for what it’s worth.

I think you may be talking about 2 sides of the same coin here. The call to holiness and following of Christ is universal. Whether one be a Carmelite, Benedictine, Franciscan, Jesuits, etc., all are called to follow Christ and be transformed in Christ. we all understand and know that. The Church in her wisdom permitted that the totality of Christ be made manifest through the different charisms in the Church. Hence you have Orders committed to contemplation (praying Christ), to education (Christ the Teacher), healing ministry (Christ the Healer), Social Justice (Christ friend of the poor and weak), etc. because these are both human and divine institutions they have to be governed by canonical laws which make them distinct from each other with respect the practice of the vows. Hence, a Franciscan poverty is different from a Carmelite poverty. A Carmelite poverty is different from the Jesuits. It is important to recognize here that we are still speaking about the vows - not virtues. The Vows of Poverty, Obedience and Chastity are canonically regulated but the virtues implicit in these vows are uiversal. All of the baptized are called to a life of virtues.

So a Carmelite spirituality is a particular way of life, with particular purpose in the Universal Church, governed by particular Rule and Constitutions BUT part and parcel of the one Christian vocation . This is what St. Paul says of the different members of the one Body.

That is why the Church INSISTS that every Religious Order must remain faithful to the charism received from the Founder/Foundress if it is to benefit the Church. Fidelity to our differences of charisms is important if we have to serve the varying needs of the Church.

 

[Sister_Helena]

However, I’m talking about something a bit different from this kind of “charism” here. Is not the stage of the Beginner or the Proficient the same for every soul, whether he thinks of himself as a Franciscan or a Benedictine or a Carmelite? If he finds himself in the dark night of the senses or of the spirit, is his suffering and his salvation not the same regardless of his spirituality?

I agree with you here. We are not talking “charisms” here but spiritual experience. Although “there are more differences in souls than faces (St. John of the Cross”, there is a universal experience souls go through such as purgative nights. There is no distinguishing mark here whether one is Carmelite, Franciscan or Benedictine.

 

[Sister_Helena]

However, I’m talking about something a bit different from this kind of “charism” here. Is not the stage of the Beginner or the Proficient the same for every soul, whether he thinks of himself as a Franciscan or a Benedictine or a Carmelite? If he finds himself in the dark night of the senses or of the spirit, is his suffering and his salvation not the same regardless of his spirituality?

.

I agree with you here. We are not talking “charisms” here but spiritual experience. Although “there are more differences in souls than faces (St. John of the Cross”, there is a universal experience souls go through such as purgative nights. There is no distinguishing mark here whether one is Carmelite, Franciscan or Benedictine.

 

[Lifeisawesome]

Hello, I’m a Carmelite Sister and I would just like to put in my two cents for what it’s worth.

I think you may be talking about 2 sides of the same coin here. The call to holiness and following of Christ is universal. Whether one be a Carmelite, Benedictine, Franciscan, Jesuits, etc., all are called to follow Christ and be transformed in Christ. we all understand and know that. The Church in her wisdom permitted that the totality of Christ be made manifest through the different charisms in the Church. Hence you have Orders committed to contemplation (praying Christ), to education (Christ the Teacher), healing ministry (Christ the Healer), Social Justice (Christ friend of the poor and weak), etc. because these are both human and divine institutions they have to be governed by canonical laws which make them distinct from each other with respect the practice of the vows. Hence, a Franciscan poverty is different from a Carmelite poverty. A Carmelite poverty is different from the Jesuits. It is important to recognize here that we are still speaking about the vows - not virtues. The Vows of Poverty, Obedience and Chastity are canonically regulated but the virtues implicit in these vows are uiversal. All of the baptized are called to a life of virtues.

So a Carmelite spirituality is a particular way of life, with particular purpose in the Universal Church, governed by particular Rule and Constitutions BUT part and parcel of the one Christian vocation . This is what St. Paul says of the different members of the one Body.

That is why the Church INSISTS that every Religious Order must remain faithful to the charism received from the Founder/Foundress if it is to benefit the Church. Fidelity to our differences of charisms is important if we have to serve the varying needs of the Church.

Sister - you said what I would have said if I were as eloquent and well formed as you. Very well done. So - since you have an obvious depth of wisdom to draw upon, what is your perspective on his question about how to deal with the dark night? Should he not stick with one of the charisms (I think the Carmelite tradition provides the best help in this case) to avoid confusion with language, approach, coherence of thought, direction etc.?

 

[Sister_Helena]

: If he finds himself in the dark night of the senses or of the spirit, is his suffering and his salvation not the same regardless of his spirituality?

I’d be grateful for your thoughts…

With regards the question I just quoted, my answer will be yes, it is the same spiritual experience of the dark night. But how one responds to this dark night will depend on his spirituality and spiritual orientation. St. John of the Cross was declared a Doctor of the Church and as such his teachings have been proposed to us by the Church as universally applicable to the general faithful: it is not just 100% true for Carmelites, 80% for Franciscans, 50% for other Orders, etc. He is after all describing human and spiritual experiences which are universal.

But the circumstances wherein the dark night is wrought differ. For a cloistered contemplative Carmelite , the night will be experienced in the life of solitude and silence, penance and daily mortifications. An active Carmelite religious will experience it in the daily demands of ministry, the multiple distractions in prayers, the lack of silence and solitude, etc. SO when I begin to deal with experience of darkness, I’ll deal with it according to what my spiritual charism is which is Carmelite. And what does our Carmelite charism say about this? St. John says that they actually have to be welcomed and embraced because it is actually in darkness where God is most surely present. My Carmelite spirituality teaches me that attachment to creatures is actually a distraction that will sidetrack me on my way to Mount Carmel. Another spirituality will say, no, being with people will allow you to be more with God and experience him there as surely as in the Blessed Sacrament. It is not saying that either one of this is wrong, but the thrust of the charism is different. Carmelite prayer centers on evoking love. It is not so much the number of insights and resolutions (intellect) you get in prayer but the kindling of love (affective) in the will which makes me to come out of prayer more strengthened and disposed to do God’s will even though my prayer time was dry and uneventful. This is different from the 30 days spiritual exercise by St. Ignatius where a lot of intellectual deliberations take place. Again, it’s not that one is better than the other, it is the difference in the spiritual orientation brought about by the differences in charisms.

The Dark Night experience does not discriminate according to the Order you belong to. But it definitely conditions your response to it.

That is how I see it.

 

[Lifeisawesome]

Sister Helena,

Well done again. Do you provide spiritual direction?

 

[MaryJoseph]

With regards the question I just quoted, my answer will be yes, it is the same spiritual experience of the dark night. But how one responds to this dark night will depend on his spirituality and spiritual orientation. St. John of the Cross was declared a Doctor of the Church and as such his teachings have been proposed to us by the Church as universally applicable to the general faithful: it is not just 100% true for Carmelites, 80% for Franciscans, 50% for other Orders, etc. He is after all describing human and spiritual experiences which are universal.

But the circumstances wherein the dark night is wrought differ. For a cloistered contemplative Carmelite , the night will be experienced in the life of solitude and silence, penance and daily mortifications. An active Carmelite religious will experience it in the daily demands of ministry, the multiple distractions in prayers, the lack of silence and solitude, etc. SO when I begin to deal with experience of darkness, I’ll deal with it according to what my spiritual charism is which is Carmelite. And what does our Carmelite charism say about this? St. John says that they actually have to be welcomed and embraced because it is actually in darkness where God is most surely present. My Carmelite spirituality teaches me that attachment to creatures is actually a distraction that will sidetrack me on my way to Mount Carmel. Another spirituality will say, no, being with people will allow you to be more with God and experience him there as surely as in the Blessed Sacrament. It is not saying that either one of this is wrong, but the thrust of the charism is different. Carmelite prayer centers on evoking love. It is not so much the number of insights and resolutions (intellect) you get in prayer but the kindling of love (affective) in the will which makes me to come out of prayer more strengthened and disposed to do God’s will even though my prayer time was dry and uneventful. This is different from the 30 days spiritual exercise by St. Ignatius where a lot of intellectual deliberations take place. Again, it’s not that one is better than the other, it is the difference in the spiritual orientation brought about by the differences in charisms.

The Dark Night experience does not discriminate according to the Order you belong to. But it definitely conditions your response to it.

That is how I see it.

Dear Sister Helena,

I’m glad that you qualified your answer by saying, “That is how I see it”. I am not a Carmelite Religious Sister, although I have been greatly blessed in my spiritual life by the writings of St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Therese of Lisieux and St. Edith Stein, but I tend to see it just a bit differently. The charism of a particular order is important, as you pointed out, for those who have chosen that particular order as a way of life. It is also important for the whole Church, as Vatican II clearly saw, in urging religious to seek out the charism of their founders and foundresses in order that they might continue that gift within the Body of Christ. The universal call to holiness, however, goes beyond any religious order and really includes all the charisms.

Each member in the Body of Christ, is blessed by every other member. We build up the Body in Love when each part functions properly. Personally, I have been blessed by Franciscan saints, Dominican saints, Benedictine saints and Jesuit saints, as well as being influenced by Carmelite spirituality .

Every saint primarily followed Jesus, just as His first disciples did. I think that is why the book The Ordinary Path to Holiness impressed me so much. It clearly shows the fullness of our traditional Catholic spirituality, and how all of us are called to grow through stages into the perfection of Charity. St. John of the Cross is seen as one of many saints who have helped us understand our call to holiness. He especially has helped us in understanding the experience of the Dark Night.

You wrote that “Carmelite prayer centers on evoking love”. I think any true prayer evokes love. You also wrote that : “This is different from the 30 days spiritual exercise by St. Ignatius where a lot of intellectual deliberations take place.” Yet, my experience under a Jesuit for the spiritual exercises was a very profound encounter with Jesus. I think we need to be careful in drawing too many distinctions between charisms for we may risk losing the simplicity of our call to holiness. The Dark Night is an experience which some saints have gone through without knowing St. John of the Cross, but knowing what St. John wrote can certainly be a great help. Knowing how Jesus formed His disciples, and how they went through their own dark night from the writings of St. Catherine can also help.

If you haven’t visited the website renewthechurch.com, I would encourage you to visit and at least read the description of this book. You are probably very familiar with the three stages of the spiritual life but the author has an excellent diagram linked to the word “stages” in his book’s description.

I am not “debating” the issue here but merely giving another opinion on the place of certain charisms within the context of the whole Catholic tradition of spirituality lived by our saints through the ages.

Prayerfully,
MaryJoseph

 

[fide]

…

But the circumstances wherein the dark night is wrought differ. For a cloistered contemplative Carmelite , the night will be experienced in the life of solitude and silence, penance and daily mortifications. An active Carmelite religious will experience it in the daily demands of ministry, the multiple distractions in prayers, the lack of silence and solitude, etc. SO when I begin to deal with experience of darkness, I’ll deal with it according to what my spiritual charism is which is Carmelite. And what does our Carmelite charism say about this? St. John says that they actually have to be welcomed and embraced because it is actually in darkness where God is most surely present. My Carmelite spirituality teaches me that attachment to creatures is actually a distraction that will sidetrack me on my way to Mount Carmel. Another spirituality will say, no, being with people will allow you to be more with God and experience him there as surely as in the Blessed Sacrament. It is not saying that either one of this is wrong, but the thrust of the charism is different. Carmelite prayer centers on evoking love. It is not so much the number of insights and resolutions (intellect) you get in prayer but the kindling of love (affective) in the will which makes me to come out of prayer more strengthened and disposed to do God’s will even though my prayer time was dry and uneventful. This is different from the 30 days spiritual exercise by St. Ignatius where a lot of intellectual deliberations take place. Again, it’s not that one is better than the other, it is the difference in the spiritual orientation brought about by the differences in charisms.

The Dark Night experience does not discriminate according to the Order you belong to. But it definitely conditions your response to it.

That is how I see it.

I appreciate your thoughts, Sister, but they leave me unsettled and a bit concerned for any souls directed - especially in the dark nights, and most especially, if there be any, in the dark night of the spirit - according to the *externals *of their Orders.

My thought is this: The passive purgations are intrinsically interior desolations and trials, and are not touched by the externals of an Order or a Rule. No founder can initiate a dark night, and none can complete it. The work is interior, is of God, and is relieved only by God directly and immediately. The soul needs Christ and hungers for Christ, and is satisfied and restored only by Him, in the unity of the Holy Trinity. I can hardly imagine a Director appealing to the externals of a Rule in such a time! The soul needs faith, he needs Christ, he needs eternal God.

I am reminded of the differences criticized by Paul:
1 Cor 1:12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apol’los,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
1 Cor 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

Would a religious suffering in a dark night be told, “You are of Francis - you must do thus-and-so”, or “We are of Benedict, we pray like this…”, or “We are Carmelites, we proceed in this way…”? The soul needs Christ - not Christ in Francis, not Christ in Benedict, nor Ignatius - they and all the founders looked to and sought Christ, not Christ in some other man, but Christ immediate and personally in himself, each seeking to fill their hearts and minds with the one Savior.

I grant the value of religious orders! And please do not hear me as “rejecting” all that you write - I certainly do not. Orders and Rules can be helpful. If we are going to work and pray together, we need a structure and a schedule. But if we insert a spiritual Master other than Christ into the mix, I think we are getting into trouble. Jesus said, “you have one master, the Christ.” (Mt 23:10) Most especially in the desert-thirst of a dark night, there is one and only one Source of living water. I hope that in those times, religious Directors point again and again to Christ.

fide

 

[Ocarm]

I’m sure that Sister Helena will post her own response to this, but as a fellow Carmelite I thought I might add my own impressions. I hope you don’t mind!

I appreciate your thoughts, Sister, but they leave me unsettled and a bit concerned for any souls directed - especially in the dark nights, and most especially, if there be any, in the dark night of the spirit - according to the *externals *of their Orders.

My thought is this: The passive purgations are intrinsically interior desolations and trials, and are not touched by the externals of an Order or a Rule.

Those things that make up a particular charism are more than just externals - a popular image used these days is comparing a charism with DNA, meaning that it is a building block of a personal spirituality that is a key part of the adherent, and certainly not an external. I recall meeting a Franciscan friar who said that his Franciscanism was an intrinsic part of him, pre-existing his actual encounter with the charism. I know what he meant: a positive experience of a charism touches something very deep, and is much more than a set of rules.

Would a religious suffering in a dark night be told, “You are of Francis - you must do thus-and-so”, or “We are of Benedict, we pray like this…”, or “We are Carmelites, we proceed in this way…”? The soul needs Christ - not Christ in Francis, not Christ in Benedict, nor Ignatius - they and all the founders looked to and sought Christ, not Christ in some other man, but Christ immediate and personally in himself, each seeking to fill their hearts and minds with the one Savior.

Pretty much yes, they would be told to proceed in the way of their charism and/or the individuals who created or developed it - but as you say, always towards Christ himself. In other words, the spirit and spirituality of these souls shows us a way to Jesus, and the claiming of the charism that we share with our saints is both cause and effect of the manner in which their example brings us to God. That charism is not the only or best way to Christ, but the best way for us, because it is the life that we have chosen - through discernment of God’s will.

I grant the value of religious orders! And please do not hear me as “rejecting” all that you write - I certainly do not. Orders and Rules can be helpful. If we are going to work and pray together, we need a structure and a schedule.

Orders and rules are not typically about schedules, although they will often include this. Often they are about disposition or attitude. But a charism is much more than a rule, which by definition can only be the starting point of that charism, which will be developed and enriched by the people drawn towards it.

This is not a matter for religious only - there are vastly more tertiaries and associates than religious in all of the ancient traditions ( I sometimes think that tertiary orders and secular institutes are one of the church’s best kept secrets!).

So yes, Jesus is our goal and our saviour, but we look to other people to help us understand him better (Catholicism is not a sola scriptura religion, after all, so the writings of other men and women may properly be used to guide us towards him). I don’t see any conflict between the obvious primacy of Jesus and our veneration of the individuals who bring us closest to him - not as the result of their efforts, but through God’s grace.

 

[Sister_Helena]

My thought is this: The passive purgations are intrinsically interior desolations and trials, and are not touched by the externals of an Order or a Rule. No founder can initiate a dark night, and none can complete it. The work is interior, is of God, and is relieved only by God directly and immediately.

These discussions are becoming increasingly complicated
Passive purgation is definitely initiated and completed by God. In fact it is necessary because no matter what we do we can never attain to that absolute transformation of union with God unless God himself perfects the work of purification through the Dark Night. But the “externals” are used by God to place you in this stage. God uses the events, circumstances, personality make-up, dispositions, etc. of a person to effect the night. All these are the "ingredients " needed to effect the Night. Our humanity is the stage needed to play out this transformation. I agree that it is not the founder or the rule that effects it, it is God.
ACTIVE purification however is dependent on the individual. One chooses to mortify her senses, intellect, memory and will to cooperate with grace and the work of God. the initiative is ours. There was never a question of who finishes the job! And one’s choices heavily depend or are influenced by one’s spirituality or spiritual charism. We choose to enter this Night of the senses. St. John of the Cross has a formula for entering the night in his Ascent of Mount Carmel chapter 13 (Collected works by Kieran & Kavanaugh). This was his Carmelite Spirituality. Once the experience of the night begins , one is no longer talking about "is this Carmelite? is this Franciscan? Is this …

I think we will definitely fall into the mistake you are talking about if you separate these holy men and women, founders and foundresses, from Christ himself. But it should not be the case. The reason why Catholics honor these Saints is because we can learn from their example of courage, faith, sacrifices how it is t follow Christ. They exemplify Christ to us- they are not Christ- but God himself in His Providence chose them to teach us how to live the Gospel truths. All Rules and all spiritualities ultimately point to Christ. We are members of the ONE Body but with particular parts to play.

We may never come to an agreement about this. It is not really important I think that we see it the same way. You have your spirituality and I have mine. A typical example of what we’ve been discussing!

 

[fide]

…
I think we will definitely fall into the mistake you are talking about if you separate these holy men and women, founders and foundresses, from Christ himself. But it should not be the case. The reason why Catholics honor these Saints is because we can learn from their example of courage, faith, sacrifices how it is t follow Christ. They exemplify Christ to us- they are not Christ- but God himself in His Providence chose them to teach us how to live the Gospel truths. All Rules and all spiritualities ultimately point to Christ. We are members of the ONE Body but with particular parts to play.

We may never come to an agreement about this. It is not really important I think that we see it the same way. You have your spirituality and I have mine. A typical example of what we’ve been discussing!

Thank you for your thoughts and explanations - and as I said, I am not rejecting orders or saintly examples, certainly! I have wanted to add an “on the other hand” component to the discussion, and not deny the clear gift of religious orders to the Church - especially their witness to the evangelical counsels, and to holiness. How we need clear and uncompromised examples of holiness!

I do get concerned by religious when I hear them overly sectarian, even under the covering of humor. They can begin to sound like fans of one particular sports team lording it over fans of some other sports team - zeal hardly worthy of members of the one Body of the one Christ.
It is edifying to hear the love of Christ, from all members of His Body.

Thanks for your thoughts - I think we’ve about exausted this issue, though.

fide

 

[Lifeisawesome]

I do get concerned by religious when I hear them overly sectarian, even under the covering of humor. They can begin to sound like fans of one particular sports team lording it over fans of some other sports team - zeal hardly worthy of members of the one Body of the one Christ.
It is edifying to hear the love of Christ, from all members of His Body.

Thanks for your thoughts - I think we’ve about exausted this issue, though.

fide

Funny - I agree with you in a sense. On the other hand (had to do it) I love zeal but understand that it can sometimes manifest in the way you have described. Be zealous and unwaivering for Christ in the charism to which you are called! Defend it - promote it - bring everyone who is called to it and deeper into Christ.

 

[fide]

…
So yes, Jesus is our goal and our saviour, but we look to other people to help us understand him better (Catholicism is not a sola scriptura religion, after all, so the writings of other men and women may properly be used to guide us towards him). I don’t see any conflict between the obvious primacy of Jesus and our veneration of the individuals who bring us closest to him - not as the result of their efforts, but through God’s grace.

Hello Mike,

I hear what you are saying, I think, and I can see value in it. Of course we are not sola scriptura - but we are christocentric. Of course we can be helped and guided by others - but we have one teacher, one master, one Lord.

Every saint, and founder, received his own consolations from the Lord, and his own cross as well. You and I are called to sanctity in Christ, and have awaiting us our own consolations and our own cross. The cross fitted to your favorite saint is not your own cross, nor is mine found in the writings of another.

I am trying to suggest the real danger of using the right words, yet following the wrong path. There is a real and present danger in the spiritual life, of settling for something less than the full real living and saving Gospel. It is easier to follow men, than to follow God. Yes, we are often rightly to follow men in God! The danger remains as stated, however. As St. John wrote, “Little children, guard yourselves from idols.”

As I wrote to Sr., I think this exchange has about run its course. I have tried to make and state a point I consider to be important, and I have. I appreciate your thoughts - which, as I also said, I do not totally reject by any means - I did want to try to clarify something.

May the Lord lead you and bless you.

fide