BOOKS: The Shack by William B. Young

[Joe_5859]

It’s simple, I use “in the game” to replace “practicing”. I played some sports when I was young and although I still learn in practice, I always like to apply what I learn by being “in the game”.

Ah, I see. Very nice.

 

[Mike5575]

I’ve read it. It conveys a strong message, but for the most part, this book is theologically unsound. I take it that Mr. Young has never read the bible, particualry the Gospels.

 

[mommybug47]

From what I have heard, I am afraid to allow my daughter to read this book. However I have not read it so I cant justify saying no outright with out getting more (name removed by moderator)ut.
I have had a Messianic Jew who told me it was wonderful, “so great that God would come to us in a humble shack, and as a woman to meet our needs”. I have also had a strong protestant mom tell me how horrible and heretical it is. Then a faithful practicing Catholic gave it to my daughter as a gift. She accepted it graciously then asked me about it. I am glad that she did, because as Catholic as I am out of this crowd, I most trust the Protestant’s opinion of what is good reading and what to allow our children to ingest.
Has anyone looked at this book from a Catholic perspective?
I am not looking for flames, just accurate info, I just dont time to read it right now and it is not fair to her to have to wait for me to read it to make a decision!

 

[seagal]

I haven’t read The Shack yet but it’s on my winter to-read list, especially after hearing this review by Fr. Robert Barron, a noted Catholic apologist. He heartily recommends it for Catholics, espeically those who are trying to cope with suffering in their lives. He does have a couple of caveats, where he says some views expressed in the book are more Lutheran based than Catholic, but that aside he thinks the book is a good one for anybody to read. That being said, I would recommend that you read the book yourself first to see if it’s age appropriate for your daughter (you didn’t mention how old she is). After all, you should be thoroughly aware of whatever she’s reading. And it would be interesting to have a discussion with her about it afterwards.

 

[katrntogo]

Hi. There is a thread with opinions on it already on this site so that might help you. I had a Catholic friend recommend it & was disappointed in that I had thought it would follow Catholic teaching but it does not. Like the previous poster said, read it first & then decide. I read it all & it is fine as a novel but make sure she knows to read it as such so as not to confuse it with what is correct (but then I guess we won’t know for sure until we there ).

 

[BVM_1221]

From what I have heard, I am afraid to allow my daughter to read this book. However I have not read it so I cant justify saying no outright with out getting more (name removed by moderator)ut.
I have had a Messianic Jew who told me it was wonderful, “so great that God would come to us in a humble shack, and as a woman to meet our needs”. I have also had a strong protestant mom tell me how horrible and heretical it is. Then a faithful practicing Catholic gave it to my daughter as a gift. She accepted it graciously then asked me about it. I am glad that she did, because as Catholic as I am out of this crowd, I most trust the Protestant’s opinion of what is good reading and what to allow our children to ingest.
Has anyone looked at this book from a Catholic perspective?
I am not looking for flames, just accurate info, I just dont time to read it right now and it is not fair to her to have to wait for me to read it to make a decision!

Both my Spiritual Director and myself have read the book, and we tend ti agree that it is worth reading, if ONLY to make you think.

Now the book tackles two big issues of Christianity, The concept of the Trinity, and the question of evil in a workd made by God.

First, tho, we need to toss aside a minor objection. Yes, The Father appears as a large black afro-american women. Why? To avoid scaring off the protagonist. As God explains, he could have appeared as Gandalf, the typical large overwhelming white-bearded male which tends to be many peoples default image of God.

And, yes, Jesus is not the tall, handsome, distinguished male of most artwork. He appears as a rather plain, ho-hum worker. You wouldn’t notice him if you passed him on the streets of Cairo.

The Holy Spirit, to also reassure the protagonist, appears as a yong oriental woman.

Because the protagonist, Mack, is damaged goods, scarred by the kidnap, torture, and death of his daughter. The book makes a valiant effort to explain why bad things happen to good people. This is a topic that has been discussed for over 2,000 years. You may not agree with the author’s attempts to explain all this, but at least he does not shy away from the topic.

So, remembering that this is a work of FICTION, I found it fascinating. Whether or not I agree with the author about the concept of the Trinity as laid out in the book, or the question of evil in a world made by God, at least it makes you think about all this.

Is it heratical, a word tossed about much too freely nowadays? I doubt it. Obvioiusly, many will be upset at the author’s conclusions as to why bad things happen to good people. But for me, I liked the emphases on FORGIVENESS. Mack must learn to forgive the killer of his daughter. This does not mean he condones what the killer did, but that he will no longer allow the killer and his deed to dominate his life.

“Where is God in a world filled with unspeakable pain?” As noted, an age old question with no satisfactory answer to date. But it makes the book worth reading for its (name removed by moderator)ut on this topic.

 

[Havard]

I was curious about this book so I started looking at reviews… I don’t like the sound of its theology now that I’ve read some reviews. Here are some problematic bits from the book:

"Authority, as you usually think of it, is merely the excuse the strong use to make others conform to what they want…’

'‘We carefully respect your choices…’
‘‘Are you saying I don’t have to follow the rules?’…’
'‘Yes. In Jesus you are not under any law. All things are lawful.’
'‘You can’t be serious! You’re messing with me again,’ moaned Mack.
‘‘Child,’ interrupted papa, ‘you ain’t heard nuthin’ yet.’

‘’[E]nforcing rules [says Sarayu, the Holy Spirit] is a vain attempt to create certainty out of uncertainty. And contrary to what you might think, I have a great fondness for uncertainty. Rules cannot bring freedom; they only have the power to accuse.’

"I’m not a bully, not some self-centered demanding little deity insisting on my own way. I am good, and I desire only what is best for you. You cannot find that through guilt or condemnation…’

'‘Those who love me come from every system that exists. They were Buddhists or Mormons, Baptists or Muslims… I have no desire to make them Christian, but I do want to join them in their transformation into sons and daughters of my Papa, into my brothers and sisters.’

From these and other bits I’ve gleaned from reviews, The Shack sounds like it’s promoting some New Age thing that Oprah might be into… not Christianity.

Not all paths lead to salvation.

 

[RSD]

I recently read “The Shack”. I found it to be lacking in sound doctrine, but very moving emotionally, and warmly touching. It was full of reminders of how much God loves us, that God is with us even when He seems to be absent because we are suffering so much. The figure of a large black woman is used in place of a fatherly man to represent God the Father because the protagonist, Mack, is very damaged in his image of fatherhood. His own father was very abusive to him. Also he feels that he failed as a father by not preventing the kidnapping of his daughter. The imagery is linked to tradition because the woman figure encourages Mack to call her “Papa” which is how Mack’s wife refers to God. It is a good reminder that while over all God has invited us to picture Him as a male person, in His fullness He transcends gender as He transcends place and time. That is in fact good solid Catholic doctrine.

It is also a good reminder that when a person is badly hurt (as Mack was by his own father) it makes it much harder for them to see God in the sort of person who hurt them. Which is the sort of thing I think Jesus had in mind when He talked about the spiritual danger to a person who hurts a young child.

Some of the theology in this book is just plain wrong, but mostly it is a not misleading, because it is too obviously wrong. Of course Jesus wants us to be like Him. If a person has been very badly hurt, sometimes nothing beats a heartwarming lick from a loving dog. If you expect your dog also to teach you orthodox theology, you are going to miss out on what a dog can actually do for you. If you don’t like dogs, you might not like this analogy. Substitute teddy bears. The point is that the book is about love and forgiveness. Let it be what it is, and don’t blame it for not being something else.

 

[57classic]

I tried to read it, just couldn’t get past I think the 3rd chapter. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[peggytas]

youtube.com/watch?v=H3-I7AEmKlo

Check this out; it is Father Barron’s opinion of The Shack.

 

[Viki63]

My mom read this book and the “Purpose Driven Life.” (I did read the latter when I didn’t know better.) She has now passed this book on to my sister after I passed on it once I heard it portrayed God as a woman.

My mom goes to Mass practically every Sunday, goes to Confession once a year as required, is in charge of helping our parish getting ready to the food kitchen and is active in the parish but she’s not well grounded in her faith. Faith is more of an doing thing rather than a thinking thing. Hearing all this, I hope it hasn’t hurt whatever theology she has. If I correct her on theological things or suggest she read the Catechism, I’m either too “conservative”, “intolerant” or “cerebral.” This passed Sunday, she admitted that the Church is right on some things i.e. chastity and birth control but wrong in others i.e. homosexuality. She seems more prone to buy a book if it got good reviews or was on t.v.

I don’t know what to do.

In my non-practicing phase (more intellectual less doing things like Mass), I decided to give all my good Catholic books away and she picked out some she wanted to read–mainly the ones by or about Mother Angelica from EWTN.

What should I do?

Hmm- I have some grown sons who think I’m a little crazy because I’m a Catholic. It wouild be nice to have a little respect for my ideas, instead of a pat on the head and a tolerant “sure, sure Mom.”
Perhaps you might recall that your mother is older than you and has been around longer. Discussing things with her should be fine, “correcting” her is probably a bad idea. She may be a cafeteria Catholic, but then again she may be onto something, since she’s into practical service. At the end, Jesus won’t divide us according to our theological understanding, but according to how we treated the vulnerable among us.
And if you accord her opinions respect, she may do the same for you.
God bless.

 

[lauracamp2]

I loved this book. I thought the theme of the breadth of God’s love was such an important reminder. For me, it answered so many questions, as well as opening up new ways of thinking of things. Another book I recently read builds on this: Gita Nazareth’s Forgiving Ararat. This book too explores themes of judgment and forgiveness and love in the face of violence. As a fan and publicist for this book, I’m interested to see what parallels are drawn between the two.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I read The Shack. I really didn’t like it. It was thologically unsound and rather damaging to frail minds. I was with a group tht was reading, and everyone in that group who read it took it to mean that they don’t HAVE to read scripture, they don’t HAVE to go to church, and all they need is good intentions and to love God to know everything they need to know. It was a disaster. My husband and I had to leave that group because their morals went right down the chute.

 

[Faith1960]

Well, I realized that someone combined a thread that I had started about this book and the original thread…thank you, whoever you are!

Ok, I finished The Shack today, and I must say that I would not recommend it to anyone who isn’t strong in their Catholic faith. Or Christian faith, period!

It seemed ok. A nice feel-good book, even with the sad parts, which I won’t go into to spoil it for anyone. I was thinking, ok…yes…that’s what I was taught…that’s what I believe. And then it started to drift into what seemed like double-talk to me.

And THEN it got downright contradictory. To name only a few things that bothered me…

On page 136 ~ “Evil is only the absence of good, like dark is the absence of light.” God is supposed to be saying this to the main character. No mention of satan anywhere in the book.

On page 177 ~ While Jesus says that the church is his bride, he/God is also against religion. God says that “religion, politics and economics are the man-created trinity of terror”.

So much seems to go towards the ‘new age feel good’ attitude. It seems as if the author takes just enough truth to make you let your guard down, and then hits you with these weird ideas. Such as…

On page 181-182 ~ ‘Jesus’ “has no desire to make anyone a Christian”. (excuse me? What about His command to the Apostles to go out and make disciples of all nations???)

On page 202 ~ The Ten Commandments no longer apply. It says that “Jesus fulfilled it all, so that it (the law) no longer has jurisdiction over you.” (excuse me? What Jesus said was that He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it…NOT abolish, as the book says)

On page 203 ~ It says that ‘In Jesus, you are not under any laws.’
(no laws? again…do what you like, it’s ok.)

Ok…I’m done naming pages. I think you get the drift. In this book, the author says it’s ‘all about relationships’, with God, with each other. No responsibility or rules as we know them. And I see in the back of the book that he has a non-fiction book that is for sale, which seems to mean to me that he will be teaching/preaching his theology, or whatever you want to call it.

This book worries me because it just seems that the ‘feel good’, ‘no I don’t really have to worry so much about sin’, etc. may appeal to many people and actually take them away from God. I have seen/heard people say that it has “changed the way I view God and the Trinity.”, and a very devout non-Catholic Christian friend of mine who is a leader in her church groups is all fired up over the ‘teachings’ in this book.

I’m done. Sorry for rambling.

I finished The Shack last night and think I’m the only one in my group of friends who disliked the book. I spent part of the time wondering if it contradicted what we’ve been taught as Catholics and the rest of the time feeling as if I’d stumbed onto the ramblings of someone who’d just done a bunch of hallucinogenics. Not my cuppa; no offense to those who love the book.
At least two of my friends are already re-reading it, shortly after finishing it the first time. This time they’re set, highlighters at the ready.

 

[Faith1960]

So, remembering that this is a work of FICTION, .

That’s the main thing I find important about this book, but something a younger reader may not be able to keep in mind – it’s fiction. It’s also a very difficult book for younger readers to follow.

 

[John_Landis]

I was asked by a non-Catholic friend to read this book. When another friend asked me to read it and I noticed a discussion group at our 55+ community was going to discuss this book, I decided to read it. The story brings “Touched by an Angel” to mind but it has a strong anti-church message where the tv show does not seem do that. Read the last 5 paragraphs of chapter 4 page67-68. Further, read page 180, also noting pg 181 mid page- “What about the **institution **of marriage?” I thought marriage was a sacrament. Skip to page 183-184. Here is where the author’s customized religion is summarized for the first time. It is a “I’m ok, you’re ok” philosophy, where everybody can discover God in their own way and do their own thing. The book mixes some basic christian ideals that are highly commendable with a non-denominational take on Christianity where the “man-made” institutionized church just gets in the way due to it’s corruption and short comings. Furthur on page 184, Jesus tells Mac, “Who said anything about being a Christian? I’m not a Christian.” So no wonder it made the NY Times Best Seller List" and printed 3 million copies!! Whether you are Catholic or organized Protestant, this book is in much conflict with Scripture and the real church that Christ founded and organized through the teachings and example of St. Paul, the Apostles, and the Saints down through the ages!
I still have to finish the last 50 pages of this book to get the full picture- I wonder if the author of this philosphy will confront the concept of Hell and other issues it seems to leave out in the first 196 pages?
God Bless you in your journey!!

 

[dovidiob84]

Surely the best advise is to make your own mind up. Pray to God before starting to guide you on your understanding of its message. Sometimes a narrow minded “we are right” attitude means we miss things that help us spiritually not hinder. As the Author is not Catholic it would seem obvious we will not agree on every point. Read it yourself with God’s guidance and if at the end you feel good, received a message and have a clear conscience then nothing more can be said. Make your own mind up instead of relying on someone elses. God Bless

Remember Judgement is for God alone.

 

[aramac77]

My name is Aram and I just finished reading The Shack. I then went online and happened across a bunch of people arguing about it, for what looks like a few years now. People are calling this a heresy, a dangerous book, and warning people not to read it.
Why?
I normally never comment on these things, but being an unbeliever – yes that’s right, I am not a Christian – I thought it might be useful for some of these theology spouting authorities to take a moment and look at what I, not a churchgoer in any way, have gleaned from this little book. And then ask yourself - because I really don’t know much about the Bible - is anything I learned leading me in the wrong direction? Perhaps all the way to this burning lake of fire so many Christians love trying to scare non-Christians with? If this is the case, then I guess you’re right, and based on what you believe people shouldn’t read this book.
For me, I don’t believe fear and rules to be the answer, I never have. This has been the main reason for my avoidance of the church. However, when you preach love and forgiveness, through whatever means conveys it the best, whether fiction or otherwise, well now, my heart begins to open a tad. It makes me actually want to pick up a Bible perhaps and maybe read a little further.
Teach love my Christian friends, because people like me, we don’t respond well to fear tactics. And we definitely don’t get turned on by arrogant church leaders who think they have it all figured out.
Below are 57 new ideas I took away from this little book. Many are direct quotes from the book itself.

1. The different appearances of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit were used to help Mack break his religious conditioning.
2. You don’t get brownie points for doing something through obligation; only if you want to.
3. Life takes a lot of time and a lot of relationship.
4. How free are we really? - family genetics, social influences, personal habits, advertising, propaganda & paradigms etc. Freedom is an incremental process that happens inside a relationship with Jesus Christ.
5. When all you can see is your pain, perhaps then you lose sight of God.
6. Pain has a way of clipping our wings, so we can’t fly. After awhile we forget we were ever created to fly.
7. When Jesus became a man he gave up his own ability to heal people and do miracles. His miracles were accomplished by Jesus’ (a man, a dependent limited human being) trust in the Father God. We are all designed to live like that, out of God’s life and power.
8. God exists in three persons so we, his creation, can also live in love and relationship, just like God does. If God didn’t, we couldn’t. “God cannot act apart from love.”
9. Relationships are never about power, and one way to avoid wanting power is to limit oneself – to serve.
10. Sin is its own punishment, devouring from the inside. It’s not God’s purpose to punish it; it’s God’s joy to cure it.
11. When people choose independence over relationship, we become a danger to each other.
12. If people learned to regard each other’s concerns as significant as their own, there would be no need for hierarchy. God does not relate inside a hierarchy; God wants us to trust him because he will never use or hurt us.
13. When Christians don’t trust God it’s because they don’t know they are loved by him. They think God is not good.
14. Mack says: “I just can’t imagine any final outcome that would justify all this (pain, suffering etc).” Papa replies: “We’re not justifying it. We are redeeming it.”
15. The choice of God to hide so many wonders from man is an act of love that is a gift inside the process of life.
16. For any created being, autonomy is lunacy.
17. When something happens to us, how do we determine whether it is good or bad? By whether we like it or if it causes us pain. This is self-serving and self-centred.
18. We become the judge of good and evil; so when each person’s good and evil clashes with someone else’s, fights, even wars, break out.
19. Eating of the tree tore the universe apart, divorcing the spiritual from the physical. All of us died, expelling the very breath of God.
20. We play God in our independence. The only remedy is to give up the right to decide good and evil and choose to live in God and trust and rest in his goodness.
21. God is light and God is good. Removing ourselves from God will plunge us into darkness. Declaring independence will result in evil because apart from God, you can only draw on yourself. That is death, because you have separated yourself from God, from Life.
22. This concept is difficult for us because the good may be the presence of cancer or the loss of income, or even a life. Sarayu answers: “Don’t you think we care about these people who suffer too? Each of them is the centre of another story that is untold.”
23. About having ‘rights’: “‘Rights’ are where survivors go so they won’t have to work out relationships.”
24. Jesus gave up his rights so his dependent life would open a door that would allow us to live free enough to give up our rights.
25. Each of us is wild, beautiful, and perfectly in process when God is working with a purpose in our hearts. We are an emerging, growing, and alive pattern – a living fractal.
26. We tend to live either in the past or the future; dwelling on the pain and the regret of the past, instead of a quick visit to learn something from it. Or fearing the future, letting our imagination run wild with worry, and forgetting to see the future with Jesus. This happens when: a. we don’t really know we’re loved and b. we don’t believe that God is good.
27. Apart from Jesus’ life, we cannot submit one to another. Jesus’ life is not an example to be copied. Jesus came to live his life in us; so we will see with God’s eyes, hear with his ears, love with his heart, and touch with his hands.
28. Some say love grows, but it is the knowing that grows and love simply expands to contain it. Love is the skin of knowing.
29. We human beings are constantly judging others because we are self-centred.
30. We say: “Predators deserve judgment, their parents, too, for twisting them, and their parents, and on and on, until finally we go right back to Adam, and then, why not judge God? He started it all…isn’t God to blame for our losses? He could have not created, or he could have stopped the killer, but he didn’t.” If we can judge God so easily then, of course, we can judge the world. We must then (e.g.) choose two of our five children to go to heaven and three to go to hell, because that’s what we believe God does. Mack could not choose any one of his children because he loved them no matter what they did. So instead, he begged that he could go to hell for his children. This response is exactly what Jesus did. Mack judged well. He judged his children worthy of love, even if it cost him everything. This is how Jesus loves. ‘And now we know Papa’s heart.”
31. God’s love is so much larger than our sin could ever be.
32. Evil was never a plan of God’s. We must return from our independence, give up being his judge, and know God for who he is.
33. When we receive God’s love and stop judging him we let go of the guilt and despair that had sucked the colours of life out of everything.
34. God never abandons his children. We are never alone. God could no more abandon us than he could abandon himself.
35. “Live loved.”
36. When we leave the light of God and retreat to the darkness all alone, the darkness makes our fears, lies, and regrets bigger in the dark. Sometimes, as a kid, doing this is part of survival, but now we must come to the light.
37. Jesus will travel any road to find his children. But only one road leads back to heaven.
38. Stories about a person willing to exchange their life for another reveal our need and God’s heart.
39. Even though God can work incredible good out of unspeakable tragedies, it does not mean God caused it. Where there is suffering, you will find grace in many facets and colours.
40. ‘Love’ bothers to keep trying to touch people and never gives up.
41. Sometimes we hide inside lies that justify who we are and what we do.
42. Ask for forgiveness and let the forgiveness heal you. Take the risk of honesty. Faith does not grow in the house of uncertainty.
43. Our transformation is a miracle greater than raising the dead.
44. All evil flows from independence.
45. God’s purposes are always and only an expression of love. God works life out of death, freedom out of brokenness, and light out of darkness.
46. Emotions are neither good nor bad. They are the colours of the soul. They are spectacular and incredible.
47. The more you live in the truth, the more our emotions will help you see clearly.
48. Trying to keep the law is actually a declaration of independence, a way of keeping control. Keeping the law grants us the power to judge others and feel superior.
49. Responsibility and expectation are dead nouns, full of judgment, guilt, and shame. Our identity becomes wrapped up in performance. The opposite is when God gives us an ability to respond that is free to love and serve in every situation, with God in us; and expectancy is alive and dynamic with no concrete expectation – only the gift of being together.
50. To the degree we live with expectations and responsibilities is the degree we fear and the degree we don’t trust or know God.
51. If God is the centre of everything, then together we can live through everything that happens to us.
52. Forgiveness is big.
53. When bad things happen, what God had to offer us in response is his love, goodness, and relationship with us.
54. God doesn’t do humiliation, guilt, or condemnation. They don’t produce one speck of wholeness or righteousness.
55. Forgiving isn’t about forgetting; it’s about letting go of another person’s throat.
56. Forgiveness does not create a relationship; it simply removes them from your judgment.
57. Because you are important to God, everything you do is important.

I gotta tell you, this book made me want to explore the idea of God a little more, and I just can’t see how that is a bad thing.

 

[Joe_5859]

Welcome to CAF, Aram!

This is a Catholic forum, so most of us are writing from a Catholic perspective. Please don’t hold that against us. It is natural for us to evaluate books and other media in light of Catholic teaching and the Catholic worldview. That’s just who we are.

Now, if you read through all the posts in this thread (which I only recommend doing if you are really interested ), you will see that even amongst the Catholic posters there is not a unanimous consensus on this book. This is perfectly fine.

Any book is going to have both strengths and weaknesses. We need not ignore this reality. Some in this thread focus on the weaknesses in order to educate others on where the book departs from Catholic teaching. Others focus on the strengths because the book has touched them in a certain way that is in accordance with Church teaching. Again, this is fine.

That you took away some positive messages from the book is good. That it has you thinking more about God is very good. But that, in and of itself, doesn’t mean the book is beyond reproach. God will often use whatever he can to win us over. I know someone who attributed his conversion to the musical “Jesus Christ Superstar”, even though, now that he has gone much deeper in his spiritual life, he has serious problems with the underlying theology of that work. This sort of thing is not uncommon. God looks to reach us where we’re at, but he loves us too much to let us stay there. He wants to raise us up.

 

[trinitybeliever]

Aram, you have taken much from this little book. You are obviously searching for Truth. I pray you will sincerely consider the the answers to the questions in your heart as taught by the church which Jesus founded, the Catholic Church. At the heart of her teaching, “The source and summit of our faith”, is our Lord Jesus Christ’s real presence in the Eucharist. I pray that as you continue to learn about Christianity you will always sincerely seek the truth. Take care and God Bless