BOOKS: Urantia

  • Thread starter Thread starter mmmvinez
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The book is heretical. Satan loves to dupe people into believing they have found nice, innocent additiosn to the gospel. Per a previous post…the virgin birth was altered, well then that certainly isn’t from GOD! Urantia might be an interesting book, but it is a work of science fiction from someone’s creative brain. (Also blasphemous.)
 
Regarding “heresy”. If this means deviate from church dogma, yes it (urantia book) does to some degree-I would say in relatively minor ways. Personally I don’t give much weight to dogma…because i think God doesn’t. I have noticed in checking out other religions that despite what I would consider to be incorrect beliefs (imo), God still responds with truth to a sincere heart. I have seen this over and over. So, my conclusion is that God responds to the sincere person reaching out regardless of their ideas about God. Still, I realize God likely wants the truth about him known.
So “heresy” means little to me. They judged Jesus as a heretic and blasphemous.
As far as Satans tactics, I don’t know…BUT. I like how Jesus responded to that accusation: “Can Satan cast out Satan?”. It was logical.
The urantia book talks much about the “lucifer rebellion” and certainly says it was real. They ascribe much of the darkness, and selfishness on earth to it. according to the urantia book, Lucifer is an atheist…Lucifer charged Jesus (his creator) made up God just to maintain control over men and angels. Jesus chose to end the rebellion when he was in the lowly state of incarnated as a man on earth.
Anyway, I still recommend the book to friends who are interested in the life of Jesus. Hope they make a movie out of it. The Jesus they portray is quite a bit more rugged than most of the artistic portrayals we are used to. (someone money changers might flee from)
I am curious if there is any official church position on the urantia book that anyone knows of?..
 
stonetower.
Why do you seem to want to quote so much from this book on a Catholic forum? In the 1980’s I was a new ager. Urantia was one of the things I looked into, along with A Course in Miracles. They were both intelligently written, very detailed, which lends a sense of realism to them, and appealed to a lot of Catholics. But they’re both hogwash and very, very dangerous. I know this from my own experience; I got very involved. You think it’s harmless and can give you a fresh new way of looking at Jesus and Christianity. It isn’t harmless. Instead, ask the Holy Spirit to open your mind to the riches of the Scriptures and of Catholicism. If He grants you that, there won’t be enough hours in your lifetime to do all the reading and study you’ll want to do. Don’t waste your mind on stuff like that.
 
Fickle,
I don’t mean to offend anyone and certainly respect a persons views relationship with God. I think I just feel moved to defend the urantia book against what I feel is misdirected criticism.
You know, some people who find the urantia book appealing like course in miracles…I don’t. I find course in miracles just mediocre mush.(not to offend) I find the urantia book to be of a much higher quality.
As far as me quoting the urantia book on a Catholic forum…it is because I am Catholic and the urantia book was mentioned (I didn’t initiate the topic)
I will take your advice re asking the Holy Spirit …which I believe guides a person into truth (regardless of source). I don’t have a great fear of being “duped” though…I tend to view new teachings “critically” …I reserve “faith” for God, and am skeptical regarding all else. So, while I don’t agree urantia book is very dangerous (i’ve read every word-NO small task)…I will take your recommendation to seek the Holy Spirit’s guidance-thanks!
 
stonetower,
Neither book seemed dangerous to me either. In my case, a priest (who is now a monseignor) recommended ACIM to me and so I dove in with both feet. Urantia I found on my own. Basically what you’re doing when you seek out these kinds of books - and really, it’s no different than messing around with the occult, gnosticism, etc. - is you’re saying that the basic truths of Christianity aren’t enough to satisfy you, that there must be something more interesting or more that’s hidden. There’s an element of arrogance in seeking beyond what’s been given to humans by God. It’s that arrogance and insatiable curiosity that’s dangerous. I didn’t say to simply ask the Holy Spirit to guide you; I suggested you ask that He open your mind to the riches of the Scriptures and of Catholicism.
 
Sedes: I tend to agree with that New Age assessment…however, I would not include the urantia book as “new age”. The fact that it claims to have celestial authors is the only commonality.

Fickle you said:

Basically what you’re doing when you seek out these kinds of books - and really, it’s no different than messing around with the occult, gnosticism, etc. - is you’re saying that the basic truths of Christianity aren’t enough to satisfy you, that there must be something more interesting or more that’s hidden.
-I personally don’t throw in the urantia book with occult or gnosticism. I have no interest in occult-my loyalty is to God, devil is pathetic. As far as gnostic gospels…gospel of Thomas I thought may be legit-others didn’t find much truth. But you are partly right in that I am open to deeper meanings /hidden truths-call that arrogance if you wish.
  • There’s an element of arrogance in seeking beyond what’s been given to humans by God. It’s that arrogance and insatiable curiosity that’s dangerous. I didn’t say to simply ask the Holy Spirit to guide you; I suggested you ask that He open your mind to the riches of the Scriptures and of Catholicism. *
    I generally agree with your first statement but not with its assumption. You are assuming urantia book is not inspired by God. And ironically, I believe the urantia book can be a tremendous aid in bible study.
I think the basic point in which we differ is that I believe God didn’t inspire the Bible and have interaction with people for a few generations and that was that. The scripture shows God’s interaction with people…all the while progressively revealing His nature. I am well aware that Jesus was labelled a heretic and blasphemous…he appeared outside of
the religious structure of his day. So…it appears to me God may well choose to reveal himself by means we don’t expect (as he did)…so, it does us, or at least me, well to heed our inner ability to hear truth, while being open and not prejudging according to preconceptions.

I also believe it a benfit to study other religions. It has helped me appreciate my own. I think nobody fosters a sense of a sacred presence in church as well as the Catholics. I also like how we don’t focus on the personality of the priest and the homily isn’t a “show”. This all fosters genuine reaching out between our soul and God.

I also don’t put over emphasis on “outward religion” and I don’t think Jesus did. In the good samaritan, Jesus implies that a person who showed a person mercy…even if he was of another despised religion, was benefitting from God’s grace.
 
See below after reading my note. The Urantia book teaches that there were many Jesus figures. These are called “Michaels” or sons of God. They are sent to different planets and on each planet, carry out the role Christ did on ours. The preceding view is definitely NOT Catholic. And this example, of the Michaels is but one example of many, many examples, that should give you a reason not to bother with the book. This example suffices to show the extreme variance from Catholic teaching the book offers.
re: the urantia book. It claims to be written by angels (not aliens) as a revelation to our planet. (which they call urantia)
There are people who read the book, but are hardly a “cult”. That said, there are some strange off shoot groups …but I find the book quite fascinating. A third of the book is the story of Jesus life and teachings which should be made into a movie. The Jesus portrayed is very compelling.
I suggest you check out the book yourself. Some people find it amazing, some don’t …but I’d always get it from the horses mouth so to speak. There are always those who fear new truth (pharisees) and in this book there is certainly lots of truth. Whether or not it is legit, judge for yourself. I am a catholic, attended catholic school,etc…and this book has helped me know God /Jesus much better-and made me a better Catholic.👍
wikipedia has solid info about this book.
In another post Stonetower says the differences in Urantia are relatively minor. I respectfully offer that to say that Jesus is plural, not one figure but many is not a minor point of divergence with our faith. It is a major theological point and not something to gloss over as a relatively small point! The entire trinity and much of what we understand as central to our faith is completely different in the urantia text. It is a eugenically directed text, obviously historically drive, a text of its epoch and the interests of its epoch.
 
Carmalina, I mentioned your point before and didn’t gloss it over:

*Jesus also has younger brothers and sisters who he reared after Joseph died in a work accident when Jesus was 14.
The most contraversial difference (in my opinion) is the fact that Jesus is a divine creator Son of God and oversees a domain of 10 million inhabited worlds, but the universe is larger than that (much) so there are other creator Sons beyond this realm of 10 million worlds.
This would seem to diminish the importance of Jesus, but it doesn’t have to. I might want to believe that because there is more than one person in existence (myself) …God loves me less. (not true)
And also, many people of the Jewish faith hold the belief that the trinity concept “dilutes” God. A Christian could argue forever to no avail. Suffice to say, I believe with divine things this logical “dilution” reasoning just may not pertain.
For example: I believe God loves us absolutely…with no relativity. In other words, God loves us as if we were the only person in all existence.
But anyway, this last issue is probably the biggest difference from Christianity.
Personally, I test these type things from taking only the specific text of what Jesus actually says in the Bible-and cross reference. I do this because all who came after him are human (and hence fallible), whereas Jesus is not. *

I agree that this is a big difference. But we are talking about a tremendously huge universe with countless inhabited planets. I would say that is the biggest difference regarding "Christian"Jesus. But it still does claim that Jesus is God, and we were fortunate to have him choose to live his mortal life on our planet. He (allegedly) chose this planet (one out of 10 million)because the celetial beings in charge of it joined the lucifer rebellion a long time back throwing this planet in confusion and darkness. He wished to have this dark background in which to reveal God’s love.

I agree too that this teaching might seem to diminish Jesus. But after reading the Jesus section- just the opposite was true.
You have a valid point though…
 
I don’t claim to deny God the right to send his son to some other world of beings. I don’t deny those other planets may exist. I deny that there is more than one Jesus. If anything in the Urantia book contradicts the Catholic teachings, then it is heresy.

There are many logical and theological problems to the Urantia book. I say this, not from some dogmatic slumber, having never read the book. I have read it more than once in its entirety and I still have the copy I have had since 1986. It’s here somewhere. I just referred to it a month or two ago to check something against some philosophical text I was studying. I’m in the middle of a PhD and I was wondering about a spinozist or Leibnizian influence in the text. The Roman Catholic Church is God’s church on earth Stonetower. The Urantia book is interesting and as plausible as Hegel’s own version of God absolutizing himself in the universe. (The Phenomenology). I could write an extensive page for page commentary of the Urantia book and discuss all the issues but that is not my life’s work. Unlike many Urantia book readers, who can’t read anything but the Jesus papers in the back, I actually preferred and perfectly understood the initial chapters.

Urantia lacks all the important elements of Catholicism - sacraments for example.

It is an enlightenment-spurred document, filled with the influences of both the Romantics and the Cartesians. Even if I were kind and said that it could ‘complement’ Catholicism, I would do beings on this earth a disservice. For then, would this not encourage them to stay away from confession, and mass…

This book claims that a church cannot be formed because such results in a tyranny.
The book’s writer is all too human and stuck in the ontological wars of the 1800s.
The cry for autonomy. An old Cartesian saw, and another of the geometrico, enlightenment, new age, modern readings of religion that have arisen in the age of science which is upon us.
 
Carmalina,
…wow, didn’t forsee I’d need a dictionary to plow through your response.
I would love to hear the logical/ theological problems with the urantia book. Seemed pretty internally consistant when I read it.
So…you read the first parts with ease,eh? Can’t claim the same. Much is over my head.

“You said urantia lacks sacraments”…what does this mean? Can you rephrase? Urantia book validates the remembrance supper established by Jesus at the last supper. Is not this a sacrament?

Where does the urantia book claim a church cannot be formed? I recall it stressing that organized religion has potential pitfalls (ex:Pharisees,etc)

By “beings of this earth”, I presume you mean…um…people,right?😛
Pity we are not neighbors (I presume)…I wouldn’t mind listening to you assemble your opinions.
 
stonetower,

this is a Catholic forum. It is here not to preach Urantia but to help Catholics. It seems from your response that you have chosen your faith and it is NOT Catholic. IF you continue to respoind in a belligerent way I will report your last response and any others of that type to the forum administrator. Your response is not appropriate. Ad hominem O ,eam/
 
The Catholic faith has more than one sacrament, not only communion, sir. In light of your answer your question about sacraments reveals why I must disbelieve any claim of yours to be a Catholic in the past. I believe you are a follower of Urantia trolling for new members.

The personal comments about me in your last post, Stonetower, show one thing. You have no arguments against me. I say this because in general ad hominem attacks are used in arguments when no other argument can be made. It’s a last resort logical strategy when the case is lost. Look it up in wikipedia and you will discover the venerable history of ad hominem attacks. Why they are used, why they are weak resorts and what they reveal about those that use them. Usually they only work if the receiver is not too smart or if they are easily swayed by emotion.

The above two things, the question of sacraments and the ad hominem attack, show me you are neither a Christian or Catholic. Humility, generosity, and agapaeic love are the hallmarks of Catholicism. Every Catholic knows their sacraments. Your anger came through. I pray you can surpass it. I am always willing to discuss anything here if it is respectful and sincere. Lying about your Catholicism and criticizing any member of a forum in an ad hominem way is not sincere and I will not respond to further posts of that character. Otherwise, I wish you well and hope you understand the spirit of my comments.

Any monsignor that as you say follows Urantia is not a Catholic but an apostate priest.
I have heard that line before about Urantia and some “monsignor”. That was 30 years ago. No monsignor is every produced. None can be contacted and none comes forward. It’s a dishonest claim that has floated in Urantia circles for years as a way to somehow show Urantia as compatible with traditional Christian thought or Catholicism.

Best wishes, Carmalina.
 
Carmalina,
Again, I emphasize that I made no intentional personal attacks against you. Honestly. I know what ad hominem means and agree with the general intention it is used with. To address some points in your post:
  • sacraments: I know the Catholic sacraments, trust me.
  • as stated above, I never made any ad hominem attack on you-please point it out-I can then tell you my true intention
  • regarding your accusation that I am lying about my Catholicism: I am not only Catholic, but very likely more Catholic than most Catholics. I attended a Catholic grammar school until 8th grade (my teachers were nuns), I then attended a college prep high school and my teachers were Brothers (mostly), I also volunteered for a weekend retreat program through the CYO and became a team leader per request of the organizing priest. My friends also made fun of me because of my mass attending practice.I am not saying this makes me any holier than most, but I am saying I am quite familiar with the practices and beliefs of my religion.
Regarding the issue about the monsignor, I simply don’t know to what you refer. I think you may be mixing me up with someone else.

Anyway, you stated I was not Catholic and trolling for urantia. If I am, apparently I am a lousy fisherman. 😉
I am a Catholic who is *very impressed *with the Jesus section of the urantia book…and in the chance that there is someone out there who would likewise be appreciative, I state my opinion. Besides, there is no urantia “group” to troll for. There are people who like to read the book and talk about it and that is it. Period. (I checked into it)

Regarding the question of my Catholicism, I am not only Catholic, but *Irish Catholic *which I believe are the more hard core variety.:irish2:
 
Stonetower,
Thank you for the note. I do feel a bit better. I appreciate your interest in the Jesus section of Urantia but the Urantia book is not necessary for amplication of a relationship with Jesus. I stand by the belief that deviating from Catholic teaching is a serious undertaking that cannot end well. I don’t speak as a dogmatic Christian. I am as intellectual as you get. I used to believe in Urantia, new Age, etc. I went through my agnostic stage too. In my college years studying philosophy, literature, etc., I was one of those intellectuals that would have scoffed at faith. My first college degree was art. The second English. My first masters was literature. Now I am working on philosophy. I’ve read any new age book you can name, pantheist or Christian, and most philosophers. I read Urantia from a broad knowledge of philosophies and writing styles and time periods. It is not an inspired book I believe but a book of its epoch, enlightenment-spurred, as I said. I don’t reject the book is interesting but it’s just a book a human being wrote. Just like Don Juan adventures in Ixlan or Edgar Cayce is all work of the human imagination and awareness. I don’t doubt that humans have had deep insights into human ‘being’. This does not bring it to the level of inspired word of God or the level of transmission from angels arrived from space. I stand by my comment that Urantia is a work of Pantheism. If I had time and it was my dissertation I’d write on this in depth. Maybe I will explain or justify this to you later but I can’t right now. I have a huge paper due on Kant in less than a week, another due on Hegel that is past due. It’s not unwillingness to justify the claim. It’s lack of time this week, right now.

Regarding facts of religion: if interested you can see a post of mine regarding someone’s claim that Jesus was married or that Jesus was not pierced. I responded to both with the same post. In that post is an explanation of the debate of faith vs. ‘facts’. I have no interest in religious “facts”. You can view this post by going to the threads where I have posted. Some of my answer regarding Urantia would be, whenever I write it, related, though only tangentially, to the historical ground of that post. Urantia has its roots I would argue, in a historical frame, a moment of inspiration in a chain of such moments, on the Cartesian line of the “tree” which breaks off and acquires other branches within certain romantic, mystical, political, scientific movements along the way to develop itself. These branches can be explained but not today.

I too am very Catholic. Catholic schools K-12. I am now at a Catholic University working on a PhD in philosophy. My husband is Irish too. :D:)

The reason I am going to fiercely defend the total devotion to the Catholic faith, and that means a stoic rejection of ‘other’ inspirations is not explained in any of my posts thus far. It must be fiercely defended. Obedience to Rome is not a political act. Neither is it an individual act of weakness, the usurpation of human autonomy, to acquiesce to Rome. Autonomy is the sin of Lucifer and perhaps also, modern man.

God is a mystery. We want to discover God and sometimes we attempt to find him by leaving him. The search for understanding takes us far from God. This is a misunderstanding we must be alert to and avoid at all costs.

I promise this: There is nothing in the urantia book (outside of the sci-fi descriptions) that has not circulated in philosophy for centuries. I have read it all before.

peace
 
The Urantia book is a fraud and should be ignored by all Catholics.

Peace,
Ed
 
Thank you Ed. That is all anyone reading this thread needs to know.
 
Carmalina,
Interesting post, thanks. Well, this will be my last post regarding the urantia book.
I would end with this: you said: the urantia book is a work of pantheism…what type of pantheism? I would agree in the sense that it portrays a God of all true religions…but certainly does not portray an impersonal God = to nature. Regarding your last promise that there is nothing in the urantia book that has not circulated for centuries…this is interesting because I have often see accusations that the book is plagiarized. It is to a large extent, however the book acknowledges this. It claims that it is not an inspired “word of God”. It claims to be sort of a best of anthology. To the question on whether or not the urantia book is Christian…depends on your viewpoint. A Muslim, Jew or Hindu would certainly say YES. I would classify it as a alternative Christian text. Perhaps in the same classification as the book of Mormon. A Mormon would certainly say Mormons are Christian, but not all Christians would agree.
I would agree that you could find much of urantia that was written before, I very much doubt all of it though. But anyway, if when you are less busy, I’d love to hear your analysis. I’m not sure this forum is the best place to post this…but if you have a blog, I’d love to hear your viewpoint. I still maintain that the urantia book story of Jesus life would make a powerful movie…by far the most compelling story of his life ever put on film.

With regard to Catholicism: I like to explore and attend other religious services. Not because I am “searching”, but because I like to “walk in another persons shoes”. The whole idea of separate religions bothers me to a certain extent…I’m pretty sure it falls short of the ideal Jesus had in mind. People tend to see people in their own religion as brothers and sisters and view outside religions as a little less human. So attending other services helps. I will say too that it has given me an enhanced appreciation for Catholicism. My only slight and loving criticism of my religion is this: There was practically no focus on the teachings Jesus actually taught-his own words. Lots and lots of Paul, but almost none of Jesus. I actually had to wait until I was an adult to hear for the first time some of the biblical sayings of Jesus.

peace
 
Hey everyone! Sorry to bring up a dead conversation but I came across this book…just wondered what you guys thought about it. Are there any parts that are flat out false?? Could it be possible for there to be a new prophet? This guy aside, why couldn’t there be a new prophet, and how would you discern if he were false or not? were there prophesies in the book that were unfilled, or parts that were false?
 
Hi Charlotte~wow, haven’t posted to this thread for a while.

Well, as you can read, I’ve stated my opinions about the urantia book. I am very impressed with it. I’d say the third of the book devoted to the Life & Teachings of Jesus is the best, most vivid and realistic version of Jesus life I have ever read.
I have become more interested in this book since I last posted and am researching the origins of the book. I would love to hear a learned priests take on it. It is unusual and very impressive in my humble estimation. For me personally, I believe I was meant to read this book…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top