Born Again Christian Catholic

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JimR-OCDS said:
OK, let me try it this way.

Although we receive new life through the sacrament of Baptism, that new life isn’t realized until the person receives the gift of faith and a person must be open to receive faith, before he can receive it.

also;

For many Catholics who were Baptized as infants, we did not receive faith, “which is the new life that the Catechism speaks about.” We were Baptized through the faith of our parents(how ever strong that was) but not our own, and for many generations of Catholics, Baptism was treated as a social event, more than a sacarament. Until we opened ourselves up to receive faith, we will not have it. Once received, our lives are transformed and we see the death of the old self, and a birth of the new self in Christ.

I don’t think I can make it any more elementary that this and I don’t really see a need to debate over it.

Jim
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I don’t think I can make my point any more elementary than I already have, or any more elementary than you have, by way of consistent reinforcement. You’re not following Catholic teaching. You’re making it up as you go along. You’ve invented your own theology, while claiming to be Catholic. You shouldn’t be doing any of this. It’s wrong. I won’t bother you any longer. It’s just very disappointing to see such confusion within the rank and file of the Church, in these troubled times.
 
Let me just add that it is true, that one can not be born again, as Jesus said without Baptism.

For myself and others in this forum, our Baptism, was our new birth, but until we make the commitment to Christ, that new birth remains dormant.

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church states;
1253 Baptism is the sacrament of faith.
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The difference between what I was before and what I am now, is that I have faith. My Baptism meant nothing to me, until Christ came into my life.

Call it what you will, but for me, the term, “born again,” makes sense.

Jim
 
Could a Catholic call a “born again” experience an “illumination”? I had a priest/ s.d. call my experience just that. Tim
 
My sister who was born and raised Catholic has been divorced and remarried. Her new husband is generic Christian or non-denominational. Joel Osteen style. She can’t take the Eucharist so what choice did she have but to go to a protestant church. Her son, however, continues to be a Catholic and married a Catholic girl. The young couple recently had a baby and baptised him through the Catholic Church. I found it interesting to hear my new brother-in-law call the baby’s baptism a “Christening”. He and my sister attended the ceremony and then had a celebration dinner at my nephews house. People see things from different perspectives and sometimes use words to fit their own belief system. This Catholic Answers Forum has helped me to better understand my own religion. I have been enlightened by the exchange of information. I guess I could say I have been “born again” into the faith by sharing, listening and acknowledging what current and past brilliant minds have to say about God and his relationship to mankind. I’m just thankful to God that we are having this conversation and I know that in his infinite wisdom God knows that we are seeking him; and he is happy to know that we are trying our very best to understand what he expects from us. That’s what I think. For what it’s worth.
 
KingAlfred said:
I’m sorry, Roland, but that is not part of Catholic theology. That belief is distinctly Protestant. The Church teaches that one cannot be guaranteed of salvation in this life. That decision is made by God on Judgment Day, which of course occurs after one has died. There is no such thing as being ‘saved’ while one is still alive. That’s a basic, all-enduring difference between Catholicism and evangelical Christianity.😦
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Oddly enough, at a family reunion recently (largely protestant relatives), the wife of a Presbyterian minister talked about the hope of salvation, but not knowing until the end. I was quite surprised by her statement.
 
rolandjames said:
My sister who was born and raised Catholic has been divorced and remarried. Her new husband is generic Christian or non-denominational. Joel Osteen style. She can’t take the Eucharist so what choice did she have but to go to a protestant church. Her son, however, continues to be a Catholic and married a Catholic girl. The young couple recently had a baby and baptised him through the Catholic Church. I found it interesting to hear my new brother-in-law call the baby’s baptism a “Christening”. He and my sister attended the ceremony and then had a celebration dinner at my nephews house. People see things from different perspectives and sometimes use words to fit their own belief system. This Catholic Answers Forum has helped me to better understand my own religion. I have been enlightened by the exchange of information. I guess I could say I have been “born again” into the faith by sharing, listening and acknowledging what current and past brilliant minds have to say about God and his relationship to mankind. I’m just thankful to God that we are having this conversation and I know that in his infinite wisdom God knows that we are seeking him; and he is happy to know that we are trying our very best to understand what he expects from us. That’s what I think. For what it’s worth.
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AMEN!

I think we all use words in many different ways to try to explain what we have experienced in Christ Jesus. When we are applying the Word of God to our lives in it’s fullness to the best of our abilities with the help of his Holy Spirit - then to live is Christ! That is what happened to me almost thirty years ago, that is what happened to you recenlty. It happens in different times and places for everyone.

I look at our Communion lines and think of the alter calles we had in the Baptist Church. If we truly stop and take time to see we are receiving Christ in his fullness each time we receive him in the Eucharist - in some way, we give our lives to Christ again - and say ‘do unto me as you will’.

If you examine this page of conversion stories in everyone’s story - they were born again - they came into faith in Christ Jesus and his Holy Catholic and Aposotolic Church
chnetwork.org/forums/forum11/
 
KCT said:
Oddly enough, at a family reunion recently (largely protestant relatives), the wife of a Presbyterian minister talked about the hope of salvation, but not knowing until the end. I was quite surprised by her statement.
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Yeah…that’s big. Presbies believe in predestination, hugely.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Let me just add that it is true, that one can not be born again, as Jesus said without Baptism.

For myself and others in this forum, our Baptism, was our new birth, but until we make the commitment to Christ, that new birth remains dormant.

As the Catechism of the Catholic Church states;

The difference between what I was before and what I am now, is that I have faith. My Baptism meant nothing to me, until Christ came into my life.

Call it what you will, but for me, the term, “born again,” makes sense.

Jim
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Jim, I’d like to see you start a thread like this in the Traditional Catholic forum. Wow. Talk about fireworks.😃
 
KingAlfred, I apologize for using the term “born again”. I learned that’s a no, no around Catholics. What I experienced about 7 years ago during a Catholic evangelical retreat was a “renewal” of my faith that had gone lukewarm. God has been part of my life since I was a baby. I had a grandmother that was a very pious Catholic and almost a Puritan. She still believed in washing out children’s mouths with soap if they were caught swearing. Lucky I never received the treatment but some others did. I learned the fear of God at a very early age. I also took bible study for one year when I was a senior in high school. The teacher was a Baptist minister and I made straight As. I received a mixture of Catholic and protestant teaching but I have chosen the Catholic Church because it makes more sense to me. Regardless of this, there is still some protestantism ingrained in my soul. I will try my best to be a good Catholic.
 
TOP said:
Could a Catholic call a “born again” experience an “illumination”? I had a priest/ s.d. call my experience just that. Tim
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It could, and it could also be called an “epiphany,” which a Carmelite Friar called it.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
It could, and it could also be called an “epiphany,” which a Carmelite Friar called it.

Jim
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Sorry Jim, I like to study words that I believe the Holy Spirit inspired. Multiple meanings or deeper meanings in single words.
*Epiphany (feeling), the sudden realization or comprehension of the essence or meaning of something.

Illumination, spiritual or intellectual enlightenment.

Theophany, an appearance of a deity to man or an appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.*

In John 3, “born again” is mentioned a number of times with reference’s to being born of water and the Spirit.
The catechism refers to baptism as “The sacrament of regeneration”. The Catholic encyclopedia goes on to say it “is the metaphysical essence of the sacrament, while the physical essence is expressed by the second part of the definition, i.e. the washing with water (matter), accompanied by the invocation of the Holy Trinity (form). Baptism is, therefore, the sacrament by which we are *born again *of water and the Holy Ghost, that is, by which we receive in a new and spiritual life, the dignity of adoption as sons of God and heirs of God’s kingdom.”

I see no conflict in a Catholic saying they are “born again”, be it an expression of their initial baptism. I ask, what to make of experience’s with the Holy Spirit besides the sacraments. Tim
 
Tim
I see no conflict in a Catholic saying they are “born again”, be it an expression of their initial baptism. I ask, what to make of experience’s with the Holy Spirit besides the sacraments.
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I agree, and its the same point I’ve been making in this thread since my first post.

However, there must also be a correct theological understanding of the Sacrament of Baptism, in this context.

God Bless
Jim
 
Right when I thought I had it all figured out I have to go back to square one. So then, IT IS OK FOR ME TO SAY I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN CATHOLIC???
 
rolandjames said:
Right when I thought I had it all figured out I have to go back to square one. So then, IT IS OK FOR ME TO SAY I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN CATHOLIC???
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I would say no problem.

But put it in God’s hands.

Pray about it, then, ask your confessor if its OK. Explain your conversion experience. If he says its OK, then have no problem with it.

If he says no, its not a term that a Catholic should use, then take it as God’s will that you not use it.

If like it turns out like what happened when I asked my confessor about it, you’re priest will have no problem with it, and in fact he’ll be happy to hear about your experience.

Jim
 
rolandjames said:
Right when I thought I had it all figured out I have to go back to square one. So then, IT IS OK FOR ME TO SAY I AM A BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN CATHOLIC???
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Like Jim said, no problem here. If you where to tell me that you were a “born again” Catholic, I would suspect an interesting testimony to follow. A good chance to witness, one Catholic to another. If I was a “born again” non-Catholic, it would be some common ground to start from and just as interesting. Tim
 
The fact that you have it figured out, and understand now what you are saying - well that makes a world of difference 😃 You now know when you were born again, and now know that you have been stirred up into a BONFIRE for our Lord.:extrahappy: Go with God!!!
 
We have allot of book smart or learned people out there that haven’t experienced Jesus; both Catholic and Protestant. We all need to find ways to lead people to Jesus. Jesus said in John 5:39-40.
“You search the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf. But you do not want to come to me to have life.”
 
rolandjames said:
I consider myself a born again Christian because I completed the Alpha Program through a Catholic Church and accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior. I made a commitment to follow Jesus for the rest of my life. The Catholic Church I attend is charismatic and has a paid lay minister who leads an evangelization program. We are also ecumenical and refer to the protestants as our separated brothers. Am I wrong to call myself a born again Christian when I still believe in the sacraments of the Catholic Church and practice them.
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hi, Roland, sorry if this has been covered, but here is a quote from Paul Haffner, a well respected Catholic theologian, about baptism in the Holy Spirit (being ‘born again’) and how to interpret it from a Catholic perspective. I have highlighted in red the part which helped me. When we receive baptism, we need to have both the sacrament itself and faith in what it gives us (forgiveness and new life in Christ) for it to be effective. I believe that many are baptized without faith and when they do receive faith later on, by accepting what Christ has done for them, then the sacrament of baptism becomes effective. This is my experience after receiving Jesus as my Lord and Saviour and accepting His atoning death some time after receiving the sacrament as an adult. So, you are right to call yourself a born-again Catholic Christian, because all Catholics should have faith in their baptism and so should be born-again.
Referring to certain passages in the Acts of the Apostles (for example Ac 1:5, 11:6), charismatic renewal has coined the phrase "Baptism in the Spirit”. There are two interpretations regarding this term in Catholic Charismatic Renewal. **The first envisages baptism in the Spirit as an actualization of what has been received in Baptism and Confirmation. **The second explanation speaks in terms of a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The danger of the second interpretation is that it has sometimes been set up in opposition to the sacramental system of the institutional Church. This is often associated with an elitism which regards as “real” Christians only those who have received the special extra-sacramental outpouring of the Holy Spirit. In fact according to St. Paul, there exists only one Baptism (Ep 6:4). However, it is of course possible for the Holy Spirit to act outside the strict confines of the sacraments with special charismatic gifts of grace, but this is always in relation to Christ and the Church and the baptised Christian. An extra-sacramental outpouring of the Holy Spirit cannot be guaranteed in the same way as the sacraments which are certain channels of grace to those who put no obstacle in the way. Furthermore, any visible manifestations of the Holy Spirit must be discerned to see that they truly come from Him. Paul Haffner (Sacramental Mystery, pp.45, 46
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God bless,

Nick
 
Thank you for your contribution. Elitism does present a problem. As if saying my way or my experience is better than yours. I believe God will manifest himself to all of us in whatever ways he knows is best for us. I know that my life has changed and improved drastically since I opened the gate of my soul to allow the Holy Spirit to flow into it. Power to do right, strength, courage, health, wealth, power to speak before over 1,000 people at my church to testify about Christ and power to love and have more compassion for others are some of the awesome gifts of the Holy Spirit that I have received. This is not to say I wasn’t already Baptized and under the umbrella of God’s grace but things did improve for me.
 
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