Born Again in scripture?

[Milasol]

We are definitely talking about different things here. I am talking about what you maybe call a reinvention of the idea.

I really don’t think it is the same in the water-and-Spirit rebirth that takes place at baptism, the repentant sinner is transformed from a state of sin to the state of grace. I am talking about the born again movement that has a concept of “accept Jesus as your personal lord and saviour and one is set for salvation” and no grace of baptism. Yet misunderstanding the context of Jesus’ statements in John 3 that he was referring to water baptism.

For example, I was reading that “When an individual becomes aware of his own weaknesses and his dependence on Christ for salvation, he makes a covenant to follow Christ” And that this is the concept of born again for them.

So going back to my original post, I really want to find out when this concept of born again appeared in this country. I have never even heard of this

As to the Vulgate and St. Augustine, I don’t know how can someone say that it is the same concept at all or that the same idea has been around. Remember I am talking about the modern day adult decision to be born again by consciously accepting Jesus as lord and Savior (which is correct) but not believing in the grace of baptism as water and spirit rebirth.

I know what you are saying. I think you are referring to these type of churches that completely misunderstand the entire meaning of baptism.

Check this out:

"First, we should remember that when Jesus said these words, Christian baptism had not yet been instituted. Christian baptism was first mentioned by Christ in Matthew 28:19-20 and it was not practiced until Acts chapter 2 (the day of Pentecost, see especially verse 41). That there was a clear difference between the baptism of John and Christian baptism is obvious from Acts 19:1-7 (compare also Acts 18:25). So Jesus in John 3:5 could not have been referring to Christian baptism because such did not exist at that time.

If He was not referring to baptism, then what was our Lord referring to when He taught that a person must be “born of water”? The main point that Jesus was making is this: You cannot enter God’s kingdom unless you are CLEAN. Filthy disciples (those who are unclean, unforgiven, uncleansed) will not be allowed to enter. Our Lord was not talking about physical water which can only cleanse a person on the outside. In John 3:5 Jesus was talking about SPIRITUAL CLEANSING (something that must happen on the inside of a person). To be clean on the outside a person must take a bath and use soap and water! To be clean on the inside there is another kind of bath that is needed. Soap and water can never remove the filth of sin! God must do something on the inside of a person. Let us now see what the Bible says about being born of water and of the Spirit.

John 3:3 says that if a person is going to see the kingdom he must be born again. John 3:5 says that if a person is going to enter the kingdom he must be born of water and of the Spirit. Therefore, being born again means the same thing as being born of water and of the Spirit. If a person has been born again, then this person has been born of water and of the Spirit.

[Note: Some think that “water” refers to our natural birth when we were born as a baby and “Spirit” refers to our spiritual birth when we are born again. But this view does not fit the context. Since every person has been born physically, it would be stating the obvious to say that to enter the kingdom a person must be born of water. This would be like saying, A person cannot enter the kingdom unless he is a person.]

Water is the one thing we use whenever we wash something. Water is the universal cleansing agent. If you wash your car, water is used. If you wash your face, water is used. To make your clothes bright and clean, you use water. To make your teeth clean, you not only use toothpaste, but water as well. Whatever we wash, water is somehow involved. It is easy to see how WATER can be symbolic of CLEANSING (making something clean)!

This is what they believe and you can find more here. middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/bapsav05.htm

So different than even the early reformers. I just don’t know how we got here from what Jesus and the early Church fathers did and believed at the risk of their own lives.

 

[Mystophilus]

I am talking about the born again movement that has a concept of “accept Jesus as your personal lord and saviour and one is set for salvation” and no grace of baptism. Yet misunderstanding the context of Jesus’ statements in John 3 that he was referring to water baptism.

So going back to my original post, I really want to find out when this concept of born again appeared in this country. I have never even heard of this

In that case, you might want to look at Zwingli, whose view of baptism was that it was just a symbol, and Wesley, whose idea of baptism straddled the divide between sacrament and symbol.

 

[BeingSaved]

Born again is definitely a scriptural concept taught by Jesus Himself and all through the NT.

The fact that baby baptism is practiced in many churches interferes with people knowing for themselves if they are ‘inside this born again boat’ or not, and causes confusion
when discussions happen between people about this vital aspect of Christian life.

I am not saying that babies should not be baptized in Christ, however every human person must make a commitment to Christ as an adult and make sure they have this
new birth experience, whether baptized as a baby or not.

In the sacramental churches, babies are baptized, then confirmed later at age 8 or 10.
I personally believe many sacramental churches are full of people who are living in
spiritual death, and they have not come in through this new birth door, in Christ as yet, even though as children they went through the above.

We need to come to life spiritually, and to be walking in the Spirit, as adults. What occurred for us as children, is not the same as what adults decide and do and live. Children are not accountable, and adults are.I believe many churches, non sacram. and sacram. have a lot of people attending, who are not ‘living new creations in Christ Jesus, from their new spiritual birth in Him by the Holy Spirit.’ These things are not just words,…they Describe Real Spiritual Events and Life.

In the NT all kinds of things are written about the “New Creation in Christ Jesus”. Esp. by Paul.
There is born again by the Holy Spirit, and there is also ‘baptized in the Holy Spirit’, the first instance of which occurred in Acts 2 Pentecost.
These things were spoken about to new people, all the way through the NT and the new people were introduced to them, ie people were baptized in the Holy Spirit, after believing
in the gospel preached by the apostles. Then after they had both these things, the same people were Afterwards, baptized in water, as well.

I myself, and also a friend of mine were both baptized in Christ as infants, we both had catechism and confirmation,…but it was more like agreeing intellectually that these things were so and were what our respective churches taught, and we signed our names on the paperwork saying we agreed, and were enrolled into the churches, HOWEVER,…

This could be compared to going to marriage class, before meeting your spouse, or, boyfriend. We could have gone to marriage classes, the same way,…she and I,…
listened, learned, agreed with Christian principles and rules of marriage, etc. and even passed the pre marriage course, with our names signed on the paperwork, however,…
…neither she nor I would become married, by this.

Neither one of us would have fallen in love, neither of us would have a living and growing relationship with a real and living man.

So, although things occur in baby baptisms that can be spiritual and even in catechism, that can be, because these things are occurring with children and not with adults,…there is a difference.

My friend, only recently became born again, after 37 years in her church, functioning there, without the new birth and new creation in Christ Jesus occurring for her as an adult.

I also went through all of the above and became born again later as an adult, too.

 

[BeingSaved]

I know what you are saying. I think you are referring to these type of churches that completely misunderstand the entire meaning of baptism.

Check this out:

"First, we should remember that when Jesus said these words, Christian baptism had not yet been instituted. Christian baptism was first mentioned by Christ in Matthew 28:19-20 and it was not practiced until Acts chapter 2 (the day of Pentecost, see especially verse 41). That there was a clear difference between the baptism of John and Christian baptism is obvious from Acts 19:1-7 (compare also Acts 18:25). So Jesus in John 3:5 could not have been referring to Christian baptism because such did not exist at that time.

If He was not referring to baptism, then what was our Lord referring to when He taught that a person must be “born of water”? The main point that Jesus was making is this: You cannot enter God’s kingdom unless you are CLEAN. Filthy disciples (those who are unclean, unforgiven, uncleansed) will not be allowed to enter. Our Lord was not talking about physical water which can only cleanse a person on the outside. In John 3:5 Jesus was talking about SPIRITUAL CLEANSING (something that must happen on the inside of a person). To be clean on the outside a person must take a bath and use soap and water! To be clean on the inside there is another kind of bath that is needed. Soap and water can never remove the filth of sin! God must do something on the inside of a person. Let us now see what the Bible says about being born of water and of the Spirit.

John 3:3 says that if a person is going to see the kingdom he must be born again. John 3:5 says that if a person is going to enter the kingdom he must be born of water and of the Spirit. Therefore, being born again means the same thing as being born of water and of the Spirit. If a person has been born again, then this person has been born of water and of the Spirit.

[Note: Some think that “water” refers to our natural birth when we were born as a baby and “Spirit” refers to our spiritual birth when we are born again. But this view does not fit the context. Since every person has been born physically, it would be stating the obvious to say that to enter the kingdom a person must be born of water. This would be like saying, A person cannot enter the kingdom unless he is a person.]

Water is the one thing we use whenever we wash something. Water is the universal cleansing agent. If you wash your car, water is used. If you wash your face, water is used. To make your clothes bright and clean, you use water. To make your teeth clean, you not only use toothpaste, but water as well. Whatever we wash, water is somehow involved. It is easy to see how WATER can be symbolic of CLEANSING (making something clean)!

This is what they believe and you can find more here. middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/bapsav05.htm

So different than even the early reformers. I just don’t know how we got here from what Jesus and the early Church fathers did and believed at the risk of their own lives.

Baptism in the Holy Spirit(1) as separate from water baptism indicating being (2)baptized into Christ, is one of the distinctions you referred to above.

There definitely was water baptism for people who heard the apostles and believed on Christ. There was also a baptism of the Holy Spirit that came upon people who had already believed on Christ, and were followers of Jesus. This was administer by the apostles laying their hands on the people and the people receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

[Milasol]

Born again is definitely a scriptural concept taught by Jesus Himself and all through the NT.

The fact that baby baptism is practiced in many churches interferes with people knowing for themselves if they are ‘inside this born again boat’ or not, and causes confusion
when discussions happen between people about this vital aspect of Christian life.

I am not saying that babies should not be baptized in Christ, however every human person must make a commitment to Christ as an adult and make sure they have this
new birth experience, whether baptized as a baby or not.

In the sacramental churches, babies are baptized, then confirmed later at age 8 or 10.
I personally believe many sacramental churches are full of people who are living in
spiritual death, and they have not come in through this new birth door, in Christ as yet, even though as children they went through the above.

We need to come to life spiritually, and to be walking in the Spirit, as adults. What occurred for us as children, is not the same as what adults decide and do and live. Children are not accountable, and adults are.I believe many churches, non sacram. and sacram. have a lot of people attending, who are not ‘living new creations in Christ Jesus, from their new spiritual birth in Him by the Holy Spirit.’ These things are not just words,…they Describe Real Spiritual Events and Life.

In the NT all kinds of things are written about the “New Creation in Christ Jesus”. Esp. by Paul.
There is born again by the Holy Spirit, and there is also ‘baptized in the Holy Spirit’, the first instance of which occurred in Acts 2 Pentecost.
These things were spoken about to new people, all the way through the NT and the new people were introduced to them, ie people were baptized in the Holy Spirit, after believing
in the gospel preached by the apostles. Then after they had both these things, the same people were Afterwards, baptized in water, as well.

I myself, and also a friend of mine were both baptized in Christ as infants, we both had catechism and confirmation,…but it was more like agreeing intellectually that these things were so and were what our respective churches taught, and we signed our names on the paperwork saying we agreed, and were enrolled into the churches, HOWEVER,…

This could be compared to going to marriage class, before meeting your spouse, or, boyfriend. We could have gone to marriage classes, the same way,…she and I,…
listened, learned, agreed with Christian principles and rules of marriage, etc. and even passed the pre marriage course, with our names signed on the paperwork, however,…
…neither she nor I would become married, by this.

Neither one of us would have fallen in love, neither of us would have a living and growing relationship with a real and living man.

So, although things occur in baby baptisms that can be spiritual and even in catechism, that can be, because these things are occurring with children and not with adults,…there is a difference.

My friend, only recently became born again, after 37 years in her church, functioning there, without the new birth and new creation in Christ Jesus occurring for her as an adult.

I also went through all of the above and became born again later as an adult, too.

But the historic Christian Church has always held that Christ’s law applies to infants as well as adults, for Jesus said that no one can enter heaven unless he has been born again of water and the Holy Spirit (John 3:5)

Then if infants die and children die I surely hope that doesn’t mean that they go to hell…

Peter said… “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38).

That gift is given to all of God’s people.

But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, “For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him” (2:39).

It is not an ordinance but a sacrament. It makes it possible to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and for original sins to be washed away.

The major problem goes back to the notion of how protestants think they are saved.

Remember for us it is not a one time deal but a constant deal.

 

[BeingSaved]

QUOTE=Milasol;12094753]I know what you are saying. I think you are referring to these type of churches that completely misunderstand the entire meaning of baptism.

Check this out:

"First, we should remember that when Jesus said these words, Christian baptism had not yet been instituted. Christian baptism was first mentioned by Christ in Matthew 28:19-20 and it was not practiced until Acts chapter 2 (the day of Pentecost, see especially verse 41). That there was a clear difference between the baptism of John and Christian baptism is obvious from Acts 19:1-7 (compare also Acts 18:25). So Jesus in John 3:5 could not have been referring to Christian baptism because such did not exist at that time.

.

Baptism in the Holy Spirit(1) as separate from water baptism indicating being (2)baptized into Christ, is one of the distinctions you referred to above.

There definitely was water baptism for people who heard the apostles and believed on Christ. There was also a baptism of the Holy Spirit that came upon people who had already believed on Christ, and were followers of Jesus. This was administer by the apostles laying their hands on the people and the people receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8 shows this difference. Please read below

Acts Chapter 8

12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

.

And again, some teach that the Holy Spirit is received “automatically” … with no apparent outward manifestation … at the same time a person is baptized in water. However, in Acts 8:12-17 (as shown above), & Acts 19:1-6 we read about those who received the Holy Spirit AFTER being baptized… but in Acts 10:44-48 we read about others who received the Holy Spirit BEFORE being baptized.

.

Acts Chapter 19

1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

.

Acts Chapter 10

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

.

The Holy Spirit is not “automatically” imparted at believing … or water baptism.

*A person shouldn’t claim receiving the Holy Spirit entirely on the grounds of someone telling them they have received it … without them knowing for sure. Nor should they believe things “implied” from very carefully selected portions of scripture by some ministers, as opposed to that which is plainly stated in scripture. There is a way to know for sure when one receives the Holy Spirit … and the Bible states it plainly. *

Acts Chapter 2:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, BOTH Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost.
39 FOR THE PROMISE is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, EVEN AS MANY AS THE LORD OUR GOD SHALL CALL.

2 Timothy Chapter 3 warns us about conditions in the last days:

2 Timothy Chapter 3

1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT DENYING THE POWER THEREOF: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY

 

[BeingSaved]

But the historic Christian Church has always held that Christ’s law applies to infants as well as adults, for Jesus said that no one can enter heaven unless he has been born again of water and the Holy Spirit (John 3:5)

Then if infants die and children die I surely hope that doesn’t mean that they go to hell…

Peter said… “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38).

That gift is given to all of God’s people.

But he did not restrict this teaching to adults. He added, “For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, every one whom the Lord our God calls to him” (2:39).

It is not an ordinance but a sacrament. It makes it possible to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and for original sins to be washed away.

The major problem goes back to the notion of how protestants think they are saved.

Remember for us it is not a one time deal but a constant deal.

This is not a Prot. vs Catholic issue, as many Prot. churches have baby baptism into Christ and confirmation of youth aged 8 or 10.
I was myself, and a lady friend I am thinking of was also, as a child and she was involved in her church well up into her adult years,…however,…
she noted a diff. between baby baptism and confirmation as a child, and later in life,…
receiving the Holy Spirit in a way that changed her in ways that all her family are commenting on.

I believe spiritual things occur for children, however, when one is no longer a child,…and in adulthood, it is wise to make sure we are ‘in Christ’ and "He is in us, or the Holy Spirit is in us.’

Do children understand what they hear re the catechism and from then on are they followers of Jesus?I am just saying that children are not accountable, whereas an adult is,
and it is important. “to make your calling and election sure”.Bible quote

My faithful Catholic friend told me that he was baptized infant, confirmed at 9 years,…but wasn’t living with Jesus all through his years after that,…and then as an adult committed himself fully to the Lord. When I met him he told me he had been walking wth the Lord for 3 years already, only, committed to Him.

I am not saying that babies and children should be excluded from the things of God in any way,…I am just saying that a baby has their parents speak for them, however, their own will and choice is not involved. As in the case of the catholic man mentioned above, as a youth, even after confirmation, he was not walking with the Lord, and was living his own way, and by his statements in opposition to God’s ways, etc. esp. as a teen.

As an adult he made an informed choice, as a Catholic, and committed himself.

 

[Milasol]

This is not a Prot. vs Catholic issue, as many Prot. churches have baby baptism into Christ and confirmation of youth aged 8 or 10.
I was myself, and a lady friend I am thinking of was also, as a child and she was involved in her church well up into her adult years,…however,…
she noted a diff. between baby baptism and confirmation as a child, and later in life,…
receiving the Holy Spirit in a way that changed her in ways that all her family are commenting on.

I believe spiritual things occur for children, however, when one is no longer a child,…and in adulthood, it is wise to make sure we are ‘in Christ’ and "He is in us, or the Holy Spirit is in us.’

Do children understand what they hear re the catechism and from then on are they followers of Jesus?I am just saying that children are not accountable, whereas an adult is,
and it is important. “to make your calling and election sure”.

My faithful Catholic friend told me that he was baptized infant, confirmed at 9 years,…but wasn’t living with Jesus all through his years after that,…and then as an adult committed himself fully to the Lord. When I met him had been walking wth the Lord for 3 years, committed to Him.

Well, it has nothing to do with the decision. Baptism is a gift of the Holy Spirit and it erases original sin and enters persons into the covenant.

What that Catholic failed to do is to realize that for Catholics is an everyday ordeal to be with Jesus Christ.
Apparently he thought that as an adult he would need to renew his commitment, however as Catholics we need to do that constantly.

 

[Milasol]

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 HAVING A FORM OF GODLINESS, BUT DENYING THE POWER THEREOF: FROM SUCH TURN AWAY

That’s all correct however let’s not forget that entire families were baptized.

Even in the books of the New Testament that were written later in the first century, during the time when children were raised in the first Christian homes, we never—not even once—find an example of a child raised in a Christian home who is baptized only upon making a “decision for Christ.” Rather, it is always assumed that the children of Christian homes are already Christians, that they have already been “baptized into Christ” (Rom. 6:3). If infant baptism were not the rule, then we should have references to the children of Christian parents joining the Church only after they had come to the age of reason, and there are no such records in the Bible.

The Holy Spirit is a gift and a door to graces and other sacraments all necessary for salvation.

Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit, and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: “Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word.”

“By their very nature, all human beings infants included are in need of God’s grace, which is made available through the Sacrament of Baptism for the removal of original sin and incorporation into the Church, both of which are necessary for man’s salvation.”

In the New Testament, St. Paul writes that “in Adam all die” (1 Corinthians 15:22) and that we are all “enslaved to sin” (Romans 6:6). When Adam disobeyed God in the Garden of Eden, he fell from grace and was cut off from God. This stain, which is called original sin, “is a deprivation of original holiness and justice”

While in a state of original sin, it is impossible to merit anything before God or to attain salvation.,

Read more here… aleteia.org/en/religion/news/why-do-catholics-baptize-infants-44028

Read it it will explain you basics about why we, Catholics, think it is extremely important to Baptize as soon as possible. For the gift of the Holy Spirit, forgiveness of original sin, to gain more graces, to open the door for other sacraments.

It is all biblical . It is the most infallible interpretation I have yet to see about baptism through water receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.

for now I’m out it’s Friday night.

 

[BeingSaved]

Well, it has nothing to do with the decision. Baptism is a gift of the Holy Spirit and it erases original sin and enters persons into the covenant.

What that Catholic failed to do is to realize that for Catholics is an everyday ordeal to be with Jesus Christ.
Apparently he thought that as an adult he would need to renew his commitment, however as Catholics we need to do that constantly.

This is exactly what I am referring to. As an infant, his parents made the choice to baptize him. Although he was given free will, he did not exercise it or make any choices.

I am saying that it is important for an adult to choose Jesus and commit to Him, and to make sure the HOly Spirit is in them, if not sure, ask Him to come into them.

I am saying that children are not accountable to God, but adults are. So, the other thing I was trying to say is that I think churches are full of people who do not have the Holy Spirit inside them, they do not have the life of God, but they are in “churchianity”
as opposed to being “in Christ”.

This is not a Catholic nor a Prot. thing. It is an issue that may people are in church because it is a kind of “club” , and they are lacking God’s Life in them. They are not ‘new creations in Christ Jesus’ and because Jesus or the HOly spirit is not inside them,
they cannot say with Paul,
“Christ in me, the hope of Glory”.

 

[fhansen]

Did Jesus say one must be born again or from above?

In the Gospel of John, Jesus says to Nicodemus, unless one is anóthen, one cannot see the kingdom of God.

The Greeek word used is anóthen.

Now, in the Gospel of John, Jesus says one thing, his listener misunderstand, so Jesus clarifies what he said.

The Greek work anóthen can mean “again,” but it can also mean, “from above.”
We know from John later in John, Jesus said, “Unless a man be born from above.” Nicodemus hears, “again,” so asks, “How can a man be born again?” Jesus clarifies what He said to Nicodemus.

When translated in English, It read, “Jesus said, 'Unless a man be born from above… Nicodemus asked, 'How can a man be born again?” People were wondering why Nicodemus asked that when it is obvious Jesus did not say it.

So they translated the Bible in the 1920’s to read, Jesus said, 'Unless a man be born again…"

They then explained what why they did this in a footnote.

But many did not read the footnotes.
And, int he 1920’s the Born Again movement began in the American fundamentalist south
And Jesus never said you had to be born again.

Anyone know why people didn’t read the footnotes?
What does the footnote say exactly?
If it’s incorrect, why not clarify it?

If one is born from above, they’re born anew, or again. This is Catholic teaching, while the means-and the meaning-may be different from that of the teachings of our separated brethren.

 

[siamus2k13]

Same thing. One cannot be born again unless it is from above. What has occurred in recent times is that this has been twisted and taken out of context. Water and the spirit, as Jesus spoke to Nicodemus (water baptism and receiving the Holy Spirit) has been grotesquely warped into a mere verbal confession of Christ, the water now being made out (in some cases) to be amniotic fluid.

You can’t make this stuff up.

lol

The internet appears to be the devil sometimes.

Jesus is everything you need to become born again.

It’s all in him. (He is the Living Water and the Holy Spirit)

And truly he is the Bread of Life.

 

[siamus2k13]

If one is born from above, they’re born anew, or again. This is Catholic teaching, while the means-and the meaning-may be different from that of the teachings of our separated brethren.

It is.

“Born anew” is similar to an actor or actress, changing their image to appear more educated or glamorous.

 

[fhansen]

It is.

“Born anew” is similar to an actor or actress, changing their image to appear more educated or glamorous.

“Born anew” is a valid enough translation of the Greek term, not really different in meaning from “born again” unless someone’s obsessed with the latter term for some reason. And I’ve noticed that actors and actress abound regardless of which usage they employ. In any case, in Catholic teaching being born again means to change, to become new, the old past away, with God’s life now imparted into us.

 

[siamus2k13]

Oh…I’m sorry.

Please forgive me. (…)

I obsess a little.

 

[siamus2k13]

The Pentecostal meaning, is to change as well…

…as in a new nature.

(…)

 

[siamus2k13]

The Pentecostal meaning is to change as well…

(A new nature…)

 

[fhansen]

The Pentecostal meaning is to change as well…

(A new nature…)

OK . I used to be Pentecostal BTW.

 

[siamus2k13]

OK . I used to be Pentecostal BTW.

Oh really?

How did God take your decision to part from that church?

 

[fhansen]

I

Oh really?

How did God take your decision to part from that church?

He caused my parting.