Born again/Saved by Baptism?

[JSmitty2005]

There’s this girl I met on the internet. On her website it said, “Ask me about the day I died.” I knew I was asking for it, but here’s what went down after that (I’m blue and she’s red):

This message is to ask you about the day you died.

Friday, March 14th, 2003.

I died that day. And I was born again in a new life with Jesus Christ. My savior.

The angels in heaven rejoiced that day. They sang and danced in celebration of my birth. My certificate to life was documented that day. My name is written in a precious book, in the most perfect shade of red.

The most beautiful handing writing ever known.

I was dying from a heart disease, and by grace I got a donor. He choose to die for me so I could have his heart.

I choose to live for him now.

Be blessed,

Kristin.

I see. Well, I was born again when I was baptized as a baby sometime in 1986.

I don’t believe water baptism is what saves people.

If that were the case I’d stand on my front lawn with a garden hose spraying people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Besides, the thief wasn’t baptised. And Jesus said he’d see him in paradise.

I believe it’s a personal choice, not one parents can make for someone else. It’s a life changing, personal decision to fallow Jesus. Like what the disciples and apostles experienced. A baby can’t remember that.

Romans 10:9
“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

A baby can’t do any of that, and has no concept of sin.
I have some ideas of what I’ll say, but how would *you * respond next?

 

[1ke]

1 Peter 3:18-22

18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,

19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison

20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.** In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through wate**r,

21 **and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you ** also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

 

[Veritas41]

Acts 22:16, “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.” Ananias to St. Paul, just converted.

I think it would help to explain the whole sacramental principle – the perfect joining of spirit and matter in the Incarnation of Christ. In Jesus’ earthly ministry, He often healed through physical matter (Mark 7:33; 6:56; 6:13; 8:23). We also see this with the apostles in Acts 5:15 and Acts 19:12. I would ask if Jesus can give grace for physical healing through physical matter, why can’t He give saving grace for the soul through physical matter?

I would also add that in the Old Testament, infants were admitted to the Old Covenant through circumcision at the age of 8 days. These children were admitted through the faith of their parents, as is the case with infants and baptism.

 

[LMBG67]

JSmitty2005:

There’s this girl I met on the internet. On her website it said, “Ask me about the day I died.” I knew I was asking for it, but here’s what went down after that:

This message is to ask you about the day you died.

Friday, March 14th, 2003.

I died that day. And I was born again in a new life with Jesus Christ. My savior.

The angels in heaven rejoiced that day. They sang and danced in celebration of my birth. My certificate to life was documented that day. My name is written in a precious book, in the most perfect shade of red.

The most beautiful handing writing ever known.

I was dying from a heart disease, and by grace I got a donor. He choose to die for me so I could have his heart.

I choose to live for him now.

Be blessed,

Kristin.

I see. Well, I was born again when I was baptized as a baby sometime in 1986.

I don’t believe water baptism is what saves people.

If that were the case I’d stand on my front lawn with a garden hose spraying people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Besides, the thief wasn’t baptised. And Jesus said he’d see him in paradise.

I believe it’s a personal choice, not one parents can make for someone else. It’s a life changing, personal decision to fallow Jesus. Like what the disciples and apostles experienced. A baby can’t remember that.

Romans 10:9
“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

A baby can’t do any of that, and has no concept of sin.
I have some ideas of what I’ll say, but how would *you * respond next?

What to say next? That what she describes is a conversion experience *moved * by grace but that is not what it is to be ***saved ** * by grace.

Baptism washes away the stain of original sin and it will remit any personal sins if there are any. This is the new birth, this is what it is to be born again-- to go from Adam to Christ. This is how one is reconciled back to God and not only that but something even better, we are restored to a state of perfect sanctifying grace, true children of God sharing his divine life.

Adam’s sin is not ours (only the consequence) so there isn’t anything in the universe any of us can *do * to have it (and the consequence) removed from our soul.

It can only be done through the merits of Christ applied to us and the way one goes about having those merits applied to them is NOT through a response to grace but through grace conferred. And that is done through baptism, either water, blood or desire and it does not require a thing from us, not even a “formal acceptance” of Christ.

The response she refers to is us coming to believe we are sinners in need of grace, but it is not the application of sanctifying, saving grace. It is merely a response to actual or prevenient grace.

God affords the actual graces to all people in order for them to come to believe and the highest thing we are capable of is merely responding to that grace.

Responding is not being “Born Again.” Being born again is an objective, freely given grace because Jesus Christ died for all people and won that grace and there are no requirements to receiving this garce. This is called redemption being redeemed with Christ’s merits from a race who cut itself off from God.

So, we come to believe and then we are baptized and it is through the baptism, the free gift conferred to us that saves, not through our works, which would be the response to grace.

Thus we baptized any and all who will come, whether you’re carried by mom and dad or you come yourself since being saved (from original sin) isn’t anything we can do (like respond).

So on that day March 14 2003 is when she came to believe not the day she received Christ’s merits won on the cross unless that was the day she was also baptized.

If she was previously baptized then she had the merits applied to her already and her response was accepting grace that was already there. Salvation is free, not earned.

Now of course once we are “saved” born again from Adam to Christ we have to “work out” our salvation by accepting the gift and persevering in the faith we have until the end if we will be saved in the end.

I hope this kind of helps you answer her with out being too confusing.

 

[super64]

Hello,

I don’t believe water baptism is what saves people.

Well, salvation is conditional; depending on the condition of ones soul at the time of death. Baptizism is the first step to salvation with confirmation completing the baptismal promise and accepting freely Christ and His teachings and those ‘sent forth’ in His name.

If that were the case I’d stand on my front lawn with a garden hose spraying people in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Well, if it was an emergency and the people wanted it. Yes.

Besides, the thief wasn’t baptised. And Jesus said he’d see him in paradise.

They’re three ways to receive baptism:

1. Of Water - Normal
2. Of Blood - Martyring
3. Of Desire - Wanting, but not able to receive. Such as in
   the event of an accident or disaster
   The good theif received by desire.

**I believe it’s a personal choice, not one parents can make for someone else. It’s a life changing, personal decision to fallow Jesus. ** Like what the disciples and apostles experienced. A baby can’t remember that.

Amen!! Again, Confirmation is where a person completes their ‘fiat’ affirming what they believe in. Secondly, she should read her bible again. Such as Acts, where people who were baptized but still didn’t have the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
“If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Baptism of desire.

A baby can’t do any of that, and has no concept of sin.

Exactly! Parents are protecting their kids from original sin. Further, if the child gets to the age of reason and commits mortal sins then dies that’s bad. Ofcourse, they need to know what mortal sins are, have full knowledge and full consent. So even if the parent(s) have the baby baptized, at some point the child must with free will accept God’s calling.

Hope that helps. Remember to instruct with love and charity.

Scott

PS - There are many things not mentioned above, but this is the jist of it.

 

[Eileen_T]

John 3:5, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”

None of the Early Church Fathers referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism.