J
John_Pereira
Guest
Hi,my question is
a.As a baptised person in the Catholic Faith am I not reborn/born again?
a.As a baptised person in the Catholic Faith am I not reborn/born again?
- Status
K
Kmon23
Guest
Yes, you are born again.
"Jesus answered, “Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit." (John 3:5, NAB)
G
Giggly_Giraffe
Guest
I do not have strong grasp on the “Born Again”, but understand that we have “deeper conversions” instead of being reborn.
D
DebChris
Guest
You are born again through the Sacrament of Baptism.
Throughout life, we each make deeper commitments in our walk with the Lord.
One of those commitments comes when we receive the Sacrament of Confirmation.
The question becomes whether or not you have fully understood the gift that you have received when receiving the Sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation, or merely gone through the ritual and set the gifts upon a shelf without opening them. Here’s where you ask the Holy Spirit to more fully guide you along your spiritual journey so that you may continue to grow in faith. As John the Baptist said, “I must decrease that He might increase.”
The first beatitude is one of spiritual poverty, recognizing our dependence on God, surrendering ourselves to God as the saints surrendered to Him. Again, how much you are able and ready to commit to God depends on where you are in your own personal journey.
Salvation and personal conversion are a lifelong process, not a one time event.
Throughout life, we each make deeper commitments in our walk with the Lord.
One of those commitments comes when we receive the Sacrament of Confirmation.
The question becomes whether or not you have fully understood the gift that you have received when receiving the Sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation, or merely gone through the ritual and set the gifts upon a shelf without opening them. Here’s where you ask the Holy Spirit to more fully guide you along your spiritual journey so that you may continue to grow in faith. As John the Baptist said, “I must decrease that He might increase.”
The first beatitude is one of spiritual poverty, recognizing our dependence on God, surrendering ourselves to God as the saints surrendered to Him. Again, how much you are able and ready to commit to God depends on where you are in your own personal journey.
Salvation and personal conversion are a lifelong process, not a one time event.
P
phil19034
Guest
as a baptized Catholic, yes, you are born again or born anew. Check out this video from Father Barron: youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ1pLyLdnhM
C
Cathoholic
Guest
John Pereira. Welcome to CAF.
You asked:
JOHN 3:1-2a, 3-4a, 5, 22 (RSV) 1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus . . . . 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? . . . 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. . . . . 22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.
The CCC cites John 3:5 many times as well. Here is one instance (bold mine). . .
God bless.
Cathoholic
PS
If Protestants are quoting this they will usually NOT include John 3:5 too. That’s fine (but you need to know that) as it MAY be being used out of context. Yet many Protestants affirm the same teachings as Catholics do about these verses so that is not a blanket statement.
One example: Lutherans typically the same as Catholics on these verses.
Baptists virtually always different than Catholics on these verses.
You have probably heard the King James Version (KJV) or the New International Version (NIV) used quoted to you (which is fine as far as this verse is concerned).
JOHN 3:3 (KJV) 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
**
JOHN 3:3 (NIV)** 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
There are other things about this verse they will also say, but this is enough to get you up and running for now.
You asked:
Yes. That is correct. There is only one place in the Gospels where it talks of being “born again” or “born anew” (depending on your translation) and that is John 3:3 and clarified in John 3:5 when Nicodemus was confused.
- Being “born again” = Being "born of water AND the Spirit”
- John 3:3 (point) = John 3:5 (clarification to help Nicodemus’ confusion)
JOHN 3:1-2a, 3-4a, 5, 22 (RSV) 1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus . . . . 3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, "How can a man be born when he is old? . . . 5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. . . . . 22 After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.
The CCC cites John 3:5 many times as well. Here is one instance (bold mine). . .
Hope this helps you.
God bless.
Cathoholic
PS
If Protestants are quoting this they will usually NOT include John 3:5 too. That’s fine (but you need to know that) as it MAY be being used out of context. Yet many Protestants affirm the same teachings as Catholics do about these verses so that is not a blanket statement.
One example: Lutherans typically the same as Catholics on these verses.
Baptists virtually always different than Catholics on these verses.
You have probably heard the King James Version (KJV) or the New International Version (NIV) used quoted to you (which is fine as far as this verse is concerned).
JOHN 3:3 (KJV) 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
**
JOHN 3:3 (NIV)** 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
There are other things about this verse they will also say, but this is enough to get you up and running for now.
S
SJacob7
Guest
In reference to John 3:5 I have a question. If I’m correct, baptism with the Spirit didn’t happen until Jesus arrived. So why did Jesus ask Nicodemus in verse 10 of the same chapter: 10 Jesus answered him, “Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand this?
With Nicodemus being Pharisee and knowing the ‘law’ (OT) how could he understand if Jesus was talking about NT baptism which they hadn’t even started doing yet? I think if Nicodemus was to understand, as Jesus said he should have, it would be a reference to the OT.
D
Dorothy
Guest
Yes, and it is good to learn, starting with the age of reason, that deliberately committed mortal sin can lose the sanctifying grace in your soul.
Thanks be to the Lord for all His holy sacraments!
C
Cathoholic
Guest
SJacob7.
You asked:
Also other teachers of the law DID see Baptism as a herald of the Messiah.
I’ll explain why later at a computer (right now I am responding on an android device which doesn’t lend itself to explicit answers due to difficulty typing on such a small one-finger keyboard).
You asked:
Because of the prophecies concerning being born of water and the Spirit.
Also other teachers of the law DID see Baptism as a herald of the Messiah.
I’ll explain why later at a computer (right now I am responding on an android device which doesn’t lend itself to explicit answers due to difficulty typing on such a small one-finger keyboard).
S
SJacob7
Guest
Ok, thanks! I understand the dilemma of a small keyboard.
M
msammiem
Guest
Our Father, Who art in Heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
Amen.
Hail Mary full of Grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed are thou among women
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb Jesus.
Holy Mary Mother of God,
pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death
Amen.
Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy Kingdom come.
Thy will be done on earth,
As it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
Amen.
Hail Mary full of Grace,
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed are thou among women
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb Jesus.
Holy Mary Mother of God,
pray for us sinners
now and at the hour of our death
Amen.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
SJacob7. You asked:
Let’s prayerfully (since this is asked here on a prayer section & even Baptism includes a prayer) consider four aspects to this:
Yet St. John the Baptist’s baptisms were NOT New Covenant Baptism either!
These baptisms (of repentance) of St. John’s were a kind of “herald” to New Covenant Baptisms (which also have repentance [for adults] but more—much MORE).
This shouldn’t be surprising. St. John the Baptist himself was a “herald” to the Messiah—Jesus.
The Pharisees (correctly) expected Baptism to be significant concerning the coming of the Messiah and the New Covenant (but they were confused as to how this Baptism will be manifest. Since the Old Covenant was “but a shadow” of good things to come, some imprecision and uncertainly isn’t surprising here).
Nicodemus SHOULD have known better. When Jesus gave the information that He did earlier in John 3, the light should have went on—but it didn’t.
Old Testament Prophecy Concerning Baptism
There was very implicit prophecy of what is to come in the New Covenant in the act of creation itself (being birthed of water and the Spirit) . . .
God binds Himself to His creation immediately with the Holy Spirit “moving” or “hovering” over the face of the waters (Genesis 1:2).
GENESIS 1:1-2 1 IN the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
In the times of Noah, there was an implicit (but getting more explicit) Spirit and an water theme that St. Peter correlates with Baptism (in 1st Peter 3).
In the times of Moses there is a more explicit water and Spirit theme as the Shekinah glory cloud or the “Spirit” leads the Israelites through the real water of the Red Sea to deliverance from their enemy.
St Paul who studied under rabbi Gamaliel sees a Baptismal theme (1st Corinthians 10) in the crossing of the Red Sea all (& water in the wilderness) and expects his readers to pick up on the Old Testament baptismal themes too (“I want you to know, brethren,. . .”).
There was even implicit prophecy of Gentiles even coming into a Covenantal relationship with God through Baptism.
The washing-clean of Naaman the Israelite? NO. The washing-clean of **Naaman the Syrian! ** (See 2nd Kings chapter 5)
Even more prophecy (getting yet more explicit) of what is to come in the New Covenant . . . .
EZEKIEL 36:25-28 25 I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. 28 You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
We have many of these prophetic Baptismal-themed readings at Mass on Easter Vigil night (here)
Some more Old Testament examples of Baptism coming (see this link for a few examples)
So this is what Nicodemus and the Pharisees should have had in mind when they saw Baptism beginning to take place.
And INDEED they did see this in Baptism . . . but not clearly.
Remember when St. John the Baptist began carrying out his baptisms immediately preceding Christian baptism? (Recall St. John the Baptist’s were “baptism of repentance” & not Christian Baptism)
What happened when these baptisms began?
The Pharisees KNEW (correctly) that something was up concerning the Messiah (and the New Covenant). They even sent their representatives to talk to St. John the Baptist about all of this didn’t they?
JOHN 1:19-20, 24, 28 19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” . . . 24 Now they had been sent from the Pharisees. 25 They asked him, "Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?" . . . 28 This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
This is WHY it makes sense for Jesus to expect Nicodemus to apply what He is saying to Nicodemus. But Nicodemus doesn’t understand (“Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand this?”)
Does this help?
JOHN 3:10 10 Jesus answered him, "Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand this?
Let’s prayerfully (since this is asked here on a prayer section & even Baptism includes a prayer) consider four aspects to this:
- The Old Testament has prophetic revealing of New Testament Baptism
- John the Baptist’s Baptisms were NOT Christian Baptism, but they were not the same as before in the Old Covenant either
- The Pharisees expected Baptism to be significant concerning the coming of the Messiah and the New Covenant
- Nicodemus SHOULD have known better
Yet St. John the Baptist’s baptisms were NOT New Covenant Baptism either!
These baptisms (of repentance) of St. John’s were a kind of “herald” to New Covenant Baptisms (which also have repentance [for adults] but more—much MORE).
This shouldn’t be surprising. St. John the Baptist himself was a “herald” to the Messiah—Jesus.
The Pharisees (correctly) expected Baptism to be significant concerning the coming of the Messiah and the New Covenant (but they were confused as to how this Baptism will be manifest. Since the Old Covenant was “but a shadow” of good things to come, some imprecision and uncertainly isn’t surprising here).
Nicodemus SHOULD have known better. When Jesus gave the information that He did earlier in John 3, the light should have went on—but it didn’t.
Old Testament Prophecy Concerning Baptism
There was very implicit prophecy of what is to come in the New Covenant in the act of creation itself (being birthed of water and the Spirit) . . .
God binds Himself to His creation immediately with the Holy Spirit “moving” or “hovering” over the face of the waters (Genesis 1:2).
GENESIS 1:1-2 1 IN the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
- A water and Spirit theme.
In the times of Noah, there was an implicit (but getting more explicit) Spirit and an water theme that St. Peter correlates with Baptism (in 1st Peter 3).
- A water and Spirit theme.
In the times of Moses there is a more explicit water and Spirit theme as the Shekinah glory cloud or the “Spirit” leads the Israelites through the real water of the Red Sea to deliverance from their enemy.
St Paul who studied under rabbi Gamaliel sees a Baptismal theme (1st Corinthians 10) in the crossing of the Red Sea all (& water in the wilderness) and expects his readers to pick up on the Old Testament baptismal themes too (“I want you to know, brethren,. . .”).
- A water and Spirit theme.
There was even implicit prophecy of Gentiles even coming into a Covenantal relationship with God through Baptism.
The washing-clean of Naaman the Israelite? NO. The washing-clean of **Naaman the Syrian! ** (See 2nd Kings chapter 5)
- A water and Spirit theme.
Even more prophecy (getting yet more explicit) of what is to come in the New Covenant . . . .
EZEKIEL 36:25-28 25 I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. 26 A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. 28 You shall dwell in the land which I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God.
- A water and Spirit theme.
We have many of these prophetic Baptismal-themed readings at Mass on Easter Vigil night (here)
Some more Old Testament examples of Baptism coming (see this link for a few examples)
So this is what Nicodemus and the Pharisees should have had in mind when they saw Baptism beginning to take place.
And INDEED they did see this in Baptism . . . but not clearly.
Remember when St. John the Baptist began carrying out his baptisms immediately preceding Christian baptism? (Recall St. John the Baptist’s were “baptism of repentance” & not Christian Baptism)
What happened when these baptisms began?
The Pharisees KNEW (correctly) that something was up concerning the Messiah (and the New Covenant). They even sent their representatives to talk to St. John the Baptist about all of this didn’t they?
JOHN 1:19-20, 24, 28 19 And this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, he did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” . . . 24 Now they had been sent from the Pharisees. 25 They asked him, "Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the prophet?" . . . 28 This took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
This is WHY it makes sense for Jesus to expect Nicodemus to apply what He is saying to Nicodemus. But Nicodemus doesn’t understand (“Are you a teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand this?”)
Does this help?
- Status