Born Again?

[DLC]

The Bible tells us that John 3:3
Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one **is born again **he cannot see the kingdom of God."
NASU

The idea of being born again is the same as being saved. We are saved by faith alone in Christ apart from works. Those who are saved, God want them to put their salvation into practice. Good works do not play a part in our salvation. Works come after salvation not before or during our salvation.
Titus 2:11-14

11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.

Also, those who are born again now know God in a personal way. They have an intimate relationship with because God has taken up residience within them through the Holy spirit. We are able to go directly to God to have our sins forgiven. We do not need a priest to do this for us. Being born again by faith we have the assurance of going to heaven when we die. Nothing can ever take our salvation from us. God is the one who both saves those who have faith and keeps them saved forever. We now are His children and nothing will ever change this fact.

This is in what is meant to be born again. There is much more that I could say but this will do for now.

 

[DLC]

Baptism does not make us to become born again. That is not what the Bible teaches. Water baptism added to faith is a work and will never save you. We are save by grace THROUGH faith and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9

 

[angelusm]

Hey Everybody,

So, at my university, there is a good mix of different religions. Many people are Catholic, but for the first time in my life, I truly am surrounded by many Protestants. For the most part, I don’t think you can tell much difference between the two denominations, and we have many ecuemenical events on campus.

But one thing that I just cringe at is when a protestant says that they were “born again.” What do they mean by this? How do they feel that this works? Why do they use such a term? And what do they feel the consequences (either good or bad) of being “born again” are?

These are just a few questions that I had about the concept, because as a “cradle Catholic” I have very little to no clue about Protestantism.

Thanks for your help.

“Born again” means either baptized in the Holy Spirit (I recommend it to everybody) or somebody who lost faith and then returned. I am also “born again” (baptized) but I never use this expression because it’s… too protestant. They love saying they are “born again” and “saved” (although not saved yet, just believers). The problem is they think that after being “born again” they are true followers of Christ. Well, as protestants, they are not. That’s a long story… Just read about differences between the CC and protestant denominations. It’s good to know why they are wrong and why we are right

 

[true_believer]

I am also “born again” (baptized) but I never use this expression because it’s… too protestant. They love saying they are “born again” and “saved” (although not saved yet, just believers). The problem is they think that after being “born again” they are true followers of Christ.

I think I may not have been very clear in the original post, but this response really gets at the core of what I meant. The reason I cringe at phrases such as “born again” and “personal relationship with Jesus” is just how sure these phrases seem. The protestants I have talked to act as if being born again promises them a spot in heaven. In my view, salvation comes through Christ, but it is not necesarily promised to every person just because at some point in their life they were born again.

That’s just like the “personal” relationship with Christ. Of course, I feel that a relationship with Christ is necessary, but I think that it comes through the Eucharist, and the church community as a whole, as well as our personal prayer life. Some of my protestant friends from high school used to say that they didn’t need to go to church because they had a personal relationship with Christ, and I just don’t understand how some protestants feel that they can live in Chirst without the guidance of a church/ fellow believers.

So I guess that I really had questions about why the use such phrases so often, and what they felt that the phrases meant, because obviously, they understand them to have a positive connotation while I have more of a negative reaction to such phrases.

I hope this makes it more clear what I am asking so that responses can be directed better.

Thanks

 

[heisenburg]

We are save by grace THROUGH faith and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9

Ahh… My favorite verse… And it states the Catholic understanding so well doesn’t it?

I find it funny though that people think this verse says we are saved by FAITH…

What does the verse say though…

1. per this Verse, we are saved by… Grace…
2. We have to have faith… check… no problem Catholics would Agree
3. And we can’t obtain that grace due to works… Check… Catholics again would agree

I find it so funny when people use eph 2:8 to say it teaches Faith alone… The verse doesn’t even say it is Faith that saves. it says we are saved by GRACE alone… something the Catholic Church has ALWAYS taught

In Christ

 

[Mannyfit75]

Baptism does not make us to become born again. That is not what the Bible teaches. Water baptism added to faith is a work and will never save you. We are save by grace THROUGH faith and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9

Really? My Bible does. I recall Peter said, “Baptism now saves you.” in his letters.

Baptism is prophecized in Ezek. 36:25-27

“I will sprinkling clean water upon you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from your all your idols I will cleanse you. A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.”

the Lord promises He will sprinkle us with water to cleanse us from sin and give us a new heart and spirit. Paul refers to this verse in Heb. 10:22. The teaching of Ezekiel foreshadows the salvific nature of Christian baptism instituted by Jesus and taught in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16.

Col. 2:11-

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, in which also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raise him from the dead.

1 Peter 3:21

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience; through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah’s ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience. “ Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body). Many scholars believe the phrase “not as a removal of dirt from the body” is in reference to the Jewish ceremony of circumcision (but, at a minimum, shows that baptism is not about the exterior, but interior life). Baptism is now the “circumcision” of the new Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), but it, unlike the old circumcision, actually saves us, as Noah and his family were saved by water.

1 Cor. 6:11

And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sancified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
**
Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic**

We are save by grace THROUGH faith and not of works

You left out the other verses in Eph. 2:8-9. Let cite it. "For by grace you been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is a gift from God------not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk with him.

So what does Paul mean that we should walk with him. Well, there is a saying that we walk by faith not by sight. There is certain work we do to earn salvation. I also like to point out accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and savior is a work. You actually do something to get yourself saved.

James also said that we are not save through faith alone.
**
“What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save you?..So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead…Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren?..You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone…For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead”** - James 3:14-17

We are saved by God’s grace. Grace gives us faith. Faith gives us the will to act upon our faith by obeying the all the commandments of the Lord, by loving him first, love of neighbor.

 

[justinthemartyr]

amen

 

[Reuben_J]

Being Born Again in the Evangelical Christian Community is a reference to a time when the person had a profound conversion experience. This experience is a life changing event where the person finds Christ and in the realization of that finding his life is altered for the better.

Sorry, am not too familiar with this.

What were you before being Born Again? Were you a Christian? I just want to see whether there is some familiarity with the Catholic experience. A person will only become a Catholic after recieving the Sacrament of Baptism. He/she can grow up as Catholic with or without any personal zeal for Christ or personal holiness.

A Catholic experience of the ‘Baptism of the Holy Spirit’, which is not equal to the Sacrament of Baptism, is usually attained during a Life in the Spirit Seminar or other similar activities. This experience is quite similar to the Born Again you describe there.

We do not call it Born Again, perhaps because it sounds Protestant. Most Catholics who experience this call it the Charismatic Renewal or simply being renewed (in the Holy Spirit).

God bless.

 

[bengal_fan]

A Baptist? They are dispensationalists. They don’t believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit beyond the age of the Apostles - at least not in the sense that charismatics refer to Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I think he’s referring to the fact that they do not consider baptism by water to be regenerative. They consider it symbolic. For them, “accepting Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior” means being born again. After they do this, they obey the Lord and get baptised as a symbol of their commitment to Christ.

baptists definitely believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. you are correct in that it is not in the same way as AoG or other pentecostal sects, but they do believe there is a point where the Holy Spirit enters you and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. they would say it comes at the point of faith, not at water baptism however.

 

[b_justb]

In my personal faith walk I was a non-practicing Catholic to the point of being anti-Christian when I had an extreme conversion experience almost 10 years back. That experience and the change in my life eventually lead me back home.

Because I am Catholic I refer to this moment as a conversion experience. People I talk to about it in other Christian traditions call it being born again. I think the experiences are similar with lots of people, but what they get called or labeled depends on the lens we look through.

Sorry, am not too familiar with this.

What were you before being Born Again? Were you a Christian? I just want to see whether there is some familiarity with the Catholic experience. A person will only become a Catholic after recieving the Sacrament of Baptism. He/she can grow up as Catholic with or without any personal zeal for Christ or personal holiness.

A Catholic experience of the ‘Baptism of the Holy Spirit’, which is not equal to the Sacrament of Baptism, is usually attained during a Life in the Spirit Seminar or other similar activities. This experience is quite similar to the Born Again you describe there.

We do not call it Born Again, perhaps because it sounds Protestant. Most Catholics who experience this call it the Charismatic Renewal or simply being renewed (in the Holy Spirit).

God bless.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Baptism does not make us to become born again. That is not what the Bible teaches. Water baptism added to faith is a work and will never save you. We are save by grace THROUGH faith and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9

Coming to faith and professing a sinner’s prayer at a faith gathering for your salvation is also a work by your defination.

Sort of a self defeating arguement, don’t you think?

 

[justinthemartyr]

yes, it is.

In the protestant view of justification, you would have to do NOTHING, not even think it, in order to be saved and everyone then would be saved because it would be NO EFFORT(work) on your part.

rediculous assertion.

 

[jwashu]

Baptism does not make us to become born again. That is not what the Bible teaches. Water baptism added to faith is a work and will never save you. We are save by grace THROUGH faith and not of works. Eph. 2:8-9

Growing up Baptist then being a Calvinist for the past 20 years I can give you a decent run down.

Some of the earlier posters are correct in that for a Baptist, being Born again means their acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savior. This is usually followed by water Baptism.

For a Presbyterian they are Baptisted into the Faith at Birth like in the RCC but it’s not regrenetive. Thus while they don’t used the term “born again” as often as Baptist, it would be at their Confirmation when they profess to follow and accept Jesus.

As one person may have said, the closest actual time for us Catholics would probably be confirmation like in the Presbyterian Church… although that’s not totally correct.

The correct respons from us Catholics (I just did my Rite of Acceptance a few weeks ago - will Swim at Easter) when we are asked if we are “born again” would similar to the question, are you saved? We were saved (at Baptism), we are being saved (through the Holy Spirit) and one day hope to achieve eternal salvation in Heaven with our Lord.

Let us remember (Catholics) that works do not come from ourselves because we can not save ourselves. The salvation is a gift of Grace from God which Christ purchased for us at Calvary.

Through our Baptism we accept that free Gift (if Baptised as an Adult, it’s based upon the faith of the parents if a child). As the Baptist would teach, God will NEVER take that free gift from us. However He gives us free will to reject His gift. Throughout our lives we should submit our wills to the Holy Spirit so that He can mold us in the image of Christ to do His works. This is NOT our glory NOR our ability, this is our submission to the Will of God.

Our Baptist poster would probably disagree on this but please think about my next statement. Have you ever “re-dedicated” your life? if so… why? Have you ever heard someone at your church say that another member was “fallen away” or questioned where they were ever truly “saved” to begin with…? I saw and heard those often.

What these people are talking about is that for a Baptist, true “salvation” truly being “born again” also brings about a life change… JUST as it should in the Roman Catholic Church.

When a person is “saved” they begin to show “fruits” of the Holy Spirit in that they are doing the Will of God and leading a Christ like life. When that outward sign is not seen, their “conversion” or “salvation” is doubted. When a person feels they have not lived up to what Christ expects of them, they often “rededicate” their life to Christ.

Truly this is VERY similiar to what the RCC teaches as well… it’s really just the wording. If we sin and fall away from grace, we seek forgivness through Christ with the intention of the sacrament of penance at the earliest possible time. That formal act of contrition is much like a “rededication” in the Baptist world.

Of course some would bring up once saved always saved but I would go back to others in the church, and often even the members themselves, doubting if they had a “true” conversion that really would assure OSAS.

We are truly not that different… We both believe that Salvation is a free give of Grace. We both believe that a true conversion leads to a different life and we both believe that people are only human and often need to seek strength from their congregation (Parish / Priest).

Joe

 

[kenmd]

very well said Joe:thumbsup:

 

[Alexius]

I ahve always understood the term as meaning when they come to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. If baptism is involved in their denomination, so be it. If not, it is an internal acceptance that without Christ, they have no hope. From my view, it is not entirely a bad concept. True, as Catholics, we understand that we are made new at baptism and that is when we are born again.

That is what I understood it as when I was a Protestant. Baptism is the outward sign of that faith…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Reuben_J]

In my personal faith walk I was a non-practicing Catholic to the point of being anti-Christian when I had an extreme conversion experience almost 10 years back. That experience and the change in my life eventually lead me back home.

Because I am Catholic I refer to this moment as a conversion experience. People I talk to about it in other Christian traditions call it being born again. I think the experiences are similar with lots of people, but what they get called or labeled depends on the lens we look through.

Praise God for bringing you back home. It’s awesome that God never stops working and calling us back to him.

I was thinking you were a Protestant. Silly me for not checking on your bio-data.

Thanks.

 

[b_justb]

Praise God for bringing you back home. It’s awesome that God never stops working and calling us back to him.

I was thinking you were a Protestant. Silly me for not checking on your bio-data.

Thanks.

hehehe I’ve been mistaken for all sorts of things. “Protestant” is one of the better ones

 

[DebChris]

baptists definitely believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit. you are correct in that it is not in the same way as AoG or other pentecostal sects, but they do believe there is a point where the Holy Spirit enters you and that is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. they would say it comes at the point of faith, not at water baptism however.

The development of pentecostal sects comes from the non-acceptance of the gifts of the Holy Spirit by their original denominations, which would primarily Baptist. Yet, the first charismatic prayer group to which I belonged was euchumentical. Members were primarily Catholic, but there were also Lutherns, Baptists, and others. The Holy Spirit is not limited by denomination. The gifts may be received by anybody willing to accept them. This acceptance implies an adult committment. One means of understanding these gifts and their reception is through *Life in the Spirit *Seminars, as mentioned in an earlier posts. There is a longer Catholic version called You Will Receive Power which includes the relationship between the “Baptism of the Holy Spirit” and gifts already received in Baptism. It is amazing when the gifts of Holy Orders are released, when a priest receives this Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
One critical element of Catholic understanding is the reality that we may not cling to “once saved always saved.” It may even have been a Baptist speaker who told the story of a preacher talking to a cowboy about “being saved.” He pointed to a rainbarrel of water in describing being filled with the Spirit. The cowboy replied, “but the water gets wigglers if it isn’t changed (if it is allowed to stagnate).”

 

[DebChris]

Growing up Baptist then being a Calvinist for the past 20 years I can give you a decent run down.

Some of the earlier posters are correct in that for a Baptist, being Born again means their acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savior. This is usually followed by water Baptism.

For a Presbyterian they are Baptisted into the Faith at Birth like in the RCC but it’s not regrenetive. Thus while they don’t used the term “born again” as often as Baptist, it would be at their Confirmation when they profess to follow and accept Jesus.

As one person may have said, the closest actual time for us Catholics would probably be confirmation like in the Presbyterian Church… although that’s not totally correct.

The correct respons from us Catholics (I just did my Rite of Acceptance a few weeks ago - will Swim at Easter) when we are asked if we are “born again” would similar to the question, are you saved? We were saved (at Baptism), we are being saved (through the Holy Spirit) and one day hope to achieve eternal salvation in Heaven with our Lord.

Let us remember (Catholics) that works do not come from ourselves because we can not save ourselves. The salvation is a gift of Grace from God which Christ purchased for us at Calvary.

Through our Baptism we accept that free Gift (if Baptised as an Adult, it’s based upon the faith of the parents if a child). As the Baptist would teach, God will NEVER take that free gift from us. However He gives us free will to reject His gift. Throughout our lives we should submit our wills to the Holy Spirit so that He can mold us in the image of Christ to do His works. This is NOT our glory NOR our ability, this is our submission to the Will of God.

Our Baptist poster would probably disagree on this but please think about my next statement. Have you ever “re-dedicated” your life? if so… why? Have you ever heard someone at your church say that another member was “fallen away” or questioned where they were ever truly “saved” to begin with…? I saw and heard those often.

What these people are talking about is that for a Baptist, true “salvation” truly being “born again” also brings about a life change… JUST as it should in the Roman Catholic Church.

When a person is “saved” they begin to show “fruits” of the Holy Spirit in that they are doing the Will of God and leading a Christ like life. When that outward sign is not seen, their “conversion” or “salvation” is doubted. When a person feels they have not lived up to what Christ expects of them, they often “rededicate” their life to Christ.

Truly this is VERY similiar to what the RCC teaches as well… it’s really just the wording. If we sin and fall away from grace, we seek forgivness through Christ with the intention of the sacrament of penance at the earliest possible time. That formal act of contrition is much like a “rededication” in the Baptist world.

Of course some would bring up once saved always saved but I would go back to others in the church, and often even the members themselves, doubting if they had a “true” conversion that really would assure OSAS.

We are truly not that different… We both believe that Salvation is a free give of Grace. We both believe that a true conversion leads to a different life and we both believe that people are only human and often need to seek strength from their congregation (Parish / Priest).

Joe

How did I miss this? I must of scanned too quickly. Thank you.

 

[true_believer]

Growing up Baptist then being a Calvinist for the past 20 years I can give you a decent run down.

Some of the earlier posters are correct in that for a Baptist, being Born again means their acceptance of Jesus Christ as their Personal Lord and Savior. This is usually followed by water Baptism.

For a Presbyterian they are Baptisted into the Faith at Birth like in the RCC but it’s not regrenetive. Thus while they don’t used the term “born again” as often as Baptist, it would be at their Confirmation when they profess to follow and accept Jesus.

As one person may have said, the closest actual time for us Catholics would probably be confirmation like in the Presbyterian Church… although that’s not totally correct.

The correct respons from us Catholics (I just did my Rite of Acceptance a few weeks ago - will Swim at Easter) when we are asked if we are “born again” would similar to the question, are you saved? We were saved (at Baptism), we are being saved (through the Holy Spirit) and one day hope to achieve eternal salvation in Heaven with our Lord.

Let us remember (Catholics) that works do not come from ourselves because we can not save ourselves. The salvation is a gift of Grace from God which Christ purchased for us at Calvary.

Through our Baptism we accept that free Gift (if Baptised as an Adult, it’s based upon the faith of the parents if a child). As the Baptist would teach, God will NEVER take that free gift from us. However He gives us free will to reject His gift. Throughout our lives we should submit our wills to the Holy Spirit so that He can mold us in the image of Christ to do His works. This is NOT our glory NOR our ability, this is our submission to the Will of God.

Our Baptist poster would probably disagree on this but please think about my next statement. Have you ever “re-dedicated” your life? if so… why? Have you ever heard someone at your church say that another member was “fallen away” or questioned where they were ever truly “saved” to begin with…? I saw and heard those often.

What these people are talking about is that for a Baptist, true “salvation” truly being “born again” also brings about a life change… JUST as it should in the Roman Catholic Church.

When a person is “saved” they begin to show “fruits” of the Holy Spirit in that they are doing the Will of God and leading a Christ like life. When that outward sign is not seen, their “conversion” or “salvation” is doubted. When a person feels they have not lived up to what Christ expects of them, they often “rededicate” their life to Christ.

Truly this is VERY similiar to what the RCC teaches as well… it’s really just the wording. If we sin and fall away from grace, we seek forgivness through Christ with the intention of the sacrament of penance at the earliest possible time. That formal act of contrition is much like a “rededication” in the Baptist world.

Of course some would bring up once saved always saved but I would go back to others in the church, and often even the members themselves, doubting if they had a “true” conversion that really would assure OSAS.

We are truly not that different… We both believe that Salvation is a free give of Grace. We both believe that a true conversion leads to a different life and we both believe that people are only human and often need to seek strength from their congregation (Parish / Priest).

Joe

Thankyou so much for your comments Joe, I think this is the clearest response that I have recieved yet. Also, thanks for mentioning the difference between those who feel that Once Saved Always Saved and others who realize that we need to turn back to God when we sin.