Born Agains?

[soonfathermauro]

What are the problems of Born Agains? Havent we settled the issue long ago that all of us are christians??? during the Holy Fathers vist to the U.S I had many fantastic debates with born agains? and every time I would prove a point they would just shift to another topic and not even reconize my point. I know as someone who has a vocation to the Lords holy priesthood that there are many people who hate and dispise holy mother church but really WHAT IS THEIR DEAL!!!

 

[puzzleannie]

Most sincere Christians have had the interiorized experience of Jesus’ love in some way and consider that through their worship, faith and spirituality they have a personal relationship with Jesus. Some describe that experience as being “born again”, some use other terminology (as in they writings of the great mystics and spiritual directors and Catholic saints). So there is no problem at all with the experience itself. There may be a problem with a theology of Christology some individuals have developed as an outgrowth or misinterpretation of that experience, but to address that we would have to quote the actual teaching and address it in the standard manner of apologetics. So as your question stands, there is no way to answer it.

 

[InLight247]

I understand where you come from.
If we are to refer to Bible, John 3:4-8 explains well about born again.
In that passage, Jesus mentions “water” and “spirit”.

When we are baptized in water, we are actually born again.
But there is also such a thing as baptized in the Holy Spirit.
Protestants, as well as some Charismatic Catholics, may talk about a one time, intensive conversion experience, and only refer that as the “born again”.

However, I don’t think such a dramatic experience is a must for “born again”.
It is the conversion of the heart that matters.

A conversion of heart could happen with or without an occasion of laying of hands or praying in tongue,or an emotional overflow. If we are baptized, if we have taken off our old self, and put on our new self, if we remain in Christ as a new creature and follow Him whole heartedly, we are born again.

 

[MarieVeronica]

I have learned from watching many of the programs on EWTN, “The Journey Home”, “EWTN Live”… any of Scott Hahn’s series… etc. that many of these denominations are just plain misinformed about the Catholic Church and what we believe. Time and time again, I’ve heard guests of Marcus Grodi (“The Journey Home”) refer to the misinformation and outright lies… “that were taught about the Catholic Church”… often, from childhood. They go on to say, that once they started to delve into the truth… outside of the sphere of whatever denomination they belonged to… they were LED to convert to Catholicism. Many of them, started by reading the Early Church Fathers.

It seems that those who are “led” by men… are going to denounce the Catholic Church. But those who allow themselves to be LED by the Holy Spirit… find the Truth. Interesting, huh?

A personal experience I have had with a “born again” Christian. A man I worked with… was a member of a local Baptist Church. The father of one of his employee’s died (they were Catholics)… and he refused to attend the funeral Mass… because in his opinion… “all Catholics are going to hell”. He actually made that statement. When my friend told me about it… I was so shocked and saddened. Because this was a man that I also worked with, and respected.

I had no clue, prior to this incident… of his feelings about Catholics. But the point is… this is apparently what he was taught. What he grew up believing. But what this belief is based on… who knows?

If they will listen, it’s a good idea to recommend the books, writings or programs… of people like Marcus Grodi… Scott Hahn… Rosalind Moss. These are all people who sought the Truth… and found it. Praise God!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Many years ago, when I received returned to the Catholic Church , I would end up debating with evangelical fundamentalist, and Jehovah’s witnesses, in defense of the Catholic Church. After receiving wise words from a holy priest, and as I spiritually matured, I realized that debate was more harmful than good. It divided us further, and each side merely dug heels in, as we stood our ground. Neither of us grew.

So, the best thing to do is, don’t get into debates.

If they ask a question you can answer accurately, politely and with charity, provide the answer. If they ask you a question that you do not know, just tell them, you don’t know the answer to the question. By all means, don’t make up an answer. Your wrong answer can be more damaging than saying nothing. If they become accusatory and disrespectful, don’t take it personal, but at this point realize that you’re not going to change their hearts anyway, so don’t bother. Just tell them that you believe in your Church and don’t desire to get into a argument over it,…either change the subject or leave them.

Keep in mind, Christ doesn’t need your defense, you need His.
The Church has had over 2000 years of experience handling attacks, so leave such matters to the Church.

In all, be a good Christian and set an example of what it means to have Christ in your heart. Those who have the same Holy Spirit, in them need not debate. They understand what faith is.

Jim

 

[reen12]

quote:soonfathermauro

I know as someone who has a vocation to the Lords holy priesthood that there are
many people who hate and dispise holy mother church but really WHAT IS THEIR DEAL!!!

Part of their “DEAL” is that they do not countenace mediatorship,
between God and man.
Which means, from the get-go, that a human being - who places emphasis on Christ as his/her personal Savior - is not about to acknowledge a faith that seems, to them, subject to a “works theology.”

Praying to saints, devotions to the Blessed Mother, indulgences,
transubstantiation, the priest as “alter Christus,” the concept
of the Mass as an offering of Christ to the Father - makes no sense, at all - to those who hold that Christ has accomplished the work of our salvation, which one then accepts as grace given. A completed act, on the part of Christ.
No repetition required.
To the born again, the gospel really is “good news.”

Since the culture is now awash in the doctrines of secular humanism, it becomes a matter of prudence for Christians to work together, when at all possible, for the improvement of the culture.
Basically, the organs of culture, in the West, have withdraw from any kind of Christian belief.
We see the effect of this, daily.

I have found that when one understands the beliefs of another,
and* why* they hold given beliefs, many times - not always,
but many times - one finds many beliefs in common.

That each life is sacred, at all stages of life, is surely one way
to acknowledge common belief, and to honor the Savior Who
taught us this.

reen12

 

[jmm08]

I have learned from watching many of the programs on EWTN, “The Journey Home”, “EWTN Live”… any of Scott Hahn’s series… etc. that many of these denominations are just plain misinformed about the Catholic Church and what we believe.

During my freshman year in college (Spring of 1978) I became “Born Again”. Although I had been baptised as an infant and was a long-time member of the United Methodist Church, MYF – Methodist Youth Fellowship, and sang in the choir at my church. I also earned my “God and Country” boy scout badge and normally went to Church each Sunday growing up. Regardless of all that I got “born again” and accepted Jesus in my heart. And firmly believed. I participated a lot in Campus Crusade for Christ as a college student (and was elected an officer of the student organization at my campus).

In college I knew I was having a time with humanities and social science electives (I liked Math and Science). And I found out that I could earn humanities credits by singing in the chapel choir. I thought the Catholics had the best music, so our choir director Father May had his hands full with a sufficiently polite but certainly non-Catholic choir member.

At age 30 in 1984, I made really good friends with a street evangelist (who was Born Again from a Billy Graham crusade). And I got involved with that. And saw a lot of Jack Chick tracts and really became quite misinformed about the Catholic Church. I probably was as misinformed as anyone can be – that Catholics aren’t Christian and that they worship an idol because they pray to the communion wafer. That they are planning to murder Protestants again someday. Yes, about as misinformed as one can get.

Now years later… Father May died perhaps 11 or 12 years ago and perhaps he has been praying for me (perhaps the one choir member he had who was not Catholic and who ridiculed ideas such as purgatory).

I had some experiences (thank you Saints and Mary, mother of God) and went through RCIA. You know what most people are really missing? I think the Rosary and adoration of Mary and sometimes really getting to be close to Mary are all such wonderful things. We can all get as close to Mary or Jesus as we want – it takes decisions of the will to want to imitate their virtues.

Yes, protestants are misinformed and sometimes really quite misinformed. But I am also sad that many Catholics are not sufficiently informed as well. It seems to me that too frequently the Rosary is not sufficiently loved and prayed. And that after receiving Holy Communion many do not want it to be prolonged and intensified by spending a little extra time afterwards in adoration of the Blessed Sacrament (perhaps in a Chapel). And how few people observe what Our Lady of Fatima asks for – to pray the Rosary every day (5 decades) and the five First Saturdays (in reparation for sins against the Immaculate Heart of Mary).

Thank you for praying for me still.

jmm08

 

[MarieVeronica]

Many years ago, when I received returned to the Catholic Church , I would end up debating with evangelical fundamentalist, and Jehovah’s witnesses, in defense of the Catholic Church. After receiving wise words from a holy priest, and as I spiritually matured, I realized that debate was more harmful than good. It divided us further, and each side merely dug heels in, as we stood our ground. Neither of us grew.

Jim, please correct me if I’ve misunderstood. But I think what you’re referring to, specifically, is “heated” debates with non-Catholics? And that is good advice. Don’t argue with people about the faith. Especially if you don’t know the facts.

But isn’t the witness of people who DO know how to evangelize… people such as Mr. Grodi… Dr. Hahn… Miss Moss… Mother Angelica… etc., really important? The charism of such people is “Apologetics”… which is a defense of the faith. You’re right when you say, that Jesus Himself doesn’t “need” us to defend Him. He’s God! But… certainly… defense of the faith is important. I just wanted to emphasize the importance of Apologetics. But I agree with you… that it shouldn’t be done in a heated manner. God bless.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

MarieVeronica

Jim, please correct me if I’ve misunderstood. But I think what you’re referring to, specifically, is “heated” debates with non-Catholics?

Not necessarily heated, but confrontational. Unless the person is asking the questions really wants to know the answer, but is asking in an attempt to bait you, there will be a level of tension.

Witnessing to a person who is actually interested in your faith, is different than one who wants to confront your faith.

What I’ve found in these debates is, they are open to sharing what you both believe in, but demand that you reject what they reject and of course, they reject their knowledge about Catholic doctrine. I’ve never encountered any of these type of people, who where actually open to learning the truth about the Catholic faith.
So, I don’t bother to debate with them anymore.

Jim

 

[MarieVeronica]

Not necessarily heated, but confrontational. Unless the person is asking the questions really wants to know the answer, but is asking in an attempt to bait you, there will be a level of tension.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarification. I guess the trick here is to know whether or not you’re being “baited”?

May I ask, what have your experiences been with this? I’d like to know how to deal with it, if necessary… in future. (Should this be taken to a new thread, perhaps? I don’t want to keep hi-jacking this one. lol.). Thanks Jim. God bless.

 

[deb1]

One should keep in mind that there are some(certainly not most) born againers who view even their fellow Protestants with a sense of wariness.

These are normally the type of people who won’t take you profession of faith as proof that you are Christian but want to quizz you on your theological beliefs. I am not talking about just the basics question," Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sin." They want to ferret out if you are a ‘real’ Christian.

So, if they believe in OSAS and you don’t, you’re not a Christian. If they don’t believe in OSAS and you do, you aren’t a Christian.

These type of people iritate their fellow Protestants also.

 

[MarieVeronica]

That’s very helpful, Deb. Thank you.

The only other encounter I can remember (aside from the first one I posted above)… was once, years ago. I was sitting in the Mall and this woman came up to me… and tried to evangelize me. I seem to remember her as a Jehovah’s Witness… but can’t be sure. I smiled at her, and said… “I’m Catholic. I believe in Jesus”. She smiled sadly at me… and said… “Ohhhh, I USED to be Catholic too”. I can’t remember how the conversation ended… but I have carried the result with me all these years. Even during the years I was “fallen away”. My motto “I was born a Catholic, and I will die a Catholic”.

I never forgot that encounter. Whenever I think of her, I remember that she is STILL a Catholic, too… whether she admits it, or not.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

MarieVeronica

I guess the trick here is to know whether or not you’re being “baited”?

By the way the accept your answer.

Jim