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Gertabelle
Guest
Here’s an article from the Boulder Daily Camera, which is not sympathetic to the church or the pastor.
Transgender Parishioner says…
Interesting to read some of the comments there. There’s still this ignorant idea that Jesus was all about acceptance and never said a thing about repentance, or eternal damnation, or taking up one’s cross…
Transgender Parishioner says…
Interesting to read some of the comments there. There’s still this ignorant idea that Jesus was all about acceptance and never said a thing about repentance, or eternal damnation, or taking up one’s cross…
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3DOCTORS
Guest
Interesting how religious institutions have to be careful what they say in order to keep their tax exempt status, yet these rabble rousers can infiltrate those same religious institutions and bring the politics with them, and have all kinds of support. And in the end, as I have pointed out before, only the lawyers making money off litigation end up profiting. The rest of society suffers further destruction. 
And these liberals who are fond of saying “If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one,” are the same folks who don’t get it that if you don’t care for a church’s doctrine there are plenty of other churches out there that will be a better “fit” so why not just go to one of those?
And these liberals who are fond of saying “If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one,” are the same folks who don’t get it that if you don’t care for a church’s doctrine there are plenty of other churches out there that will be a better “fit” so why not just go to one of those?
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EIF5A
Guest
There’s a lot of talk of brokenness of gays, lesbians, and transgenders.
Which in an objective sense is true.
But there’s never talk about other sorts of disorder, or at least, the word disorder or its equivalent are not applied.
Gluttony, lust, envy, hate, violence, resentment, etc.
So it’s perceived that only LGBT people are deemed as broken and inferior, even though it’s not the official teaching. Everyone is broken and suffers from one disorder or another.
We’re all broken — gay, straight, lesbian, etc.
But non-LGBT issues do not get the same treatment as emanating from brokenness or malfunctioning due to fallenness of human nature. It’s like straight people have a more privileged status in the eyes of God and the Church, and even though they might sin, it’s “normal” sin, whereas the rest of us are like rebellious step-children and when we sin, we’re more severely looked down upon.
I think language and how we talk about things matter, especially when trying to reach out to non-Christians/Catholics who already have negative images of Christianity, some of which are warranted.
In a way, perception is reality, and to the gays/lesbians/transgenders who feel like they have been put down, it is very real to us/them because it does seem to be a double-standard.
There was a quote by a bishop written in the early 2000s (gahh, I can’t find it), but he said something to the effect that the term “intrinsically disordered” is not very helpful and more has to be done to explain what the term means and put it into context.
Which in an objective sense is true.
But there’s never talk about other sorts of disorder, or at least, the word disorder or its equivalent are not applied.
Gluttony, lust, envy, hate, violence, resentment, etc.
So it’s perceived that only LGBT people are deemed as broken and inferior, even though it’s not the official teaching. Everyone is broken and suffers from one disorder or another.
We’re all broken — gay, straight, lesbian, etc.
But non-LGBT issues do not get the same treatment as emanating from brokenness or malfunctioning due to fallenness of human nature. It’s like straight people have a more privileged status in the eyes of God and the Church, and even though they might sin, it’s “normal” sin, whereas the rest of us are like rebellious step-children and when we sin, we’re more severely looked down upon.
I think language and how we talk about things matter, especially when trying to reach out to non-Christians/Catholics who already have negative images of Christianity, some of which are warranted.
In a way, perception is reality, and to the gays/lesbians/transgenders who feel like they have been put down, it is very real to us/them because it does seem to be a double-standard.
There was a quote by a bishop written in the early 2000s (gahh, I can’t find it), but he said something to the effect that the term “intrinsically disordered” is not very helpful and more has to be done to explain what the term means and put it into context.
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EIF5A
Guest
Because religions are old, outdated, and patriarchal. /sarcInteresting how religious institutions have to be careful what they say in order to keep their tax exempt status, yet these rabble rousers can infiltrate those same religious institutions and bring the politics with them, and have all kinds of support. And in the end, as I have pointed out before, only the lawyers making money off litigation end up profiting. The rest of society suffers further destruction.
And these liberals who are fond of saying “If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one,” are the same folks who don’t get it that if you don’t care for a church’s doctrine there are plenty of other churches out there that will be a better “fit” so why not just go to one of those?
“Become progressive, or you’re a bigot, homophobe, and misogynist.”
They think they’re truly fighting for a just cause (“reproductive justice”, gotta love that one) and making outdated things modern and upgraded.
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DeniseNY
Guest
Interesting how religious institutions have to be careful what they say in order to keep their tax exempt status, yet these rabble rousers can infiltrate those same religious institutions and bring the politics with them, and have all kinds of support. And in the end, as I have pointed out before, only the lawyers making money off litigation end up profiting. The rest of society suffers further destruction.
And these liberals who are fond of saying “If you don’t like abortion, don’t have one,” are the same folks who don’t get it that if you don’t care for a church’s doctrine there are plenty of other churches out there that will be a better “fit” so why not just go to one of those?
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1990Domer
Guest
The devil is smart!
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lax16
Guest
So…go find a church that will embrace you since you are unwilling to follow this one?
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808Catholic
Guest
I bet the Pharisees and Sadducees thought they were cool to crucify Christ.
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sheepcat
Guest
I think the issue is that most people still recognize these sins as such, and not as a core part of their identity. If you started seeing folks identify as a “hateful envious Christian” or a “lustful violent Catholic” and demand validation for that, base their core identity on such sins, you’d see pushback.
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Gertabelle
Guest
Well stated. Thank you.
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theropod
Guest
When was the last time anyone tried to force the idea that these were OK? That’s why the LGBT thing keeps being addressed. It’s being rammed down our throats, and the churches have no option but to respond.
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EIF5A
Guest
You missed the point of my post: that only LGBT people are deemed to be “disordered”, when in reality, everyone has some sort of disorder. The language used against gay sins gives that impression.
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sheepcat
Guest
I can’t ever remember having heard GLB or T (really these are separate pathologies) referred to as being disordered. Rather, they are people with a disordered affection or tendency. Note that that’s the case for all of us. Our identity as humans is as God’s image bearers, and as Catholics adopted children of God, being conformed to the image of Christ, our eldest brother, founder and perfecter of our faith.
On a proper Catholic anthropology, there are no homosexual people, no bisexual people, no straight people, certainly no “trans” people (did God make a mistake?), only people, all of whom (except for our Lord and His Blessed Mother) have disordered affections.
If someone has called you or someone you care about a broken or disordered person, I’m sorry to hear that, they’re in the wrong.
On a proper Catholic anthropology, there are no homosexual people, no bisexual people, no straight people, certainly no “trans” people (did God make a mistake?), only people, all of whom (except for our Lord and His Blessed Mother) have disordered affections.
If someone has called you or someone you care about a broken or disordered person, I’m sorry to hear that, they’re in the wrong.
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EIF5A
Guest
If someone has an intrinsic disorder, it’s not a stretch of the imagination to think that person is intrinsically disordered.
Perception ~ Reality
When was the last time pride was denigrated as a disorder? Anger? Or even heterosexual lust? When did Christians/Catholics rise up against anger and pride or pornography? It is deemed a normal fault of fallen human nature.
Technically, all passions are disorders, but how useful is the term “intrinsically disordered”?
Even though as a Catholic I understand the objective meaning of the term, there are moments of despair and hatred emanating from the perception that straight people are better than LGBT, that we are misformed illegitimate children who are so screwed up, we are labeled with a whole different category.
As for the “there are no straight/gay/bi/etc people”: that’s useless and denying reality. Just admit the reality that not everyone is straight.
Just be real. Straight = married or single vocation. Gay = celibacy. That’s the teaching of the Church.
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ToeInTheWater
Guest
As someone who agrees that it’s counter-productive to label those who identify as LGBT as essentially “children of a lesser God”…
It occurs to me that there many more people who are okay with heterosexual fornication, cohabitation, and repeated episodes of divorce and remarriage, and would be extremely offended by any attempt by a Christian (and by this I include Catholics) to even suggest that such actions are wrong, than there are who find the LGBT agenda to be “okay”.
I think it’s more honest to state “Well, we know we completely lost to the secular culture when it comes to the acceptability of heterosexual sin, we’re just desperately trying to at least keep those icky gays from winning, too!”
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