Born with, or without, original sin

[comebacktome]

Is it a heresy to state that we are not born with original sin? Theologically speaking, what does it mean? If a person’s position is that we have no original sin, but are only born into a sinful world, what are the implications?
Adam and Eve were not born into a sinful world, nor did they have original sin, yet they sinned anyway.
If someone says we are born into a sinful world, it seems a problem because “the world”, technically cannot be sinful, can it? It’s a creation of God and a tree has no ability to sin.
What explains A & E’s sin, and why can’t our sin be chalked up to the same cause, without the doctrine of OS?
BTW-I’m a staunch Catholic, I’m looking into this to refute the aforementioned claims.

 

[mardukm]

Dear comebacktome,

Is it a heresy to state that we are not born with original sin? Theologically speaking, what does it mean? If a person’s position is that we have no original sin, but are only born into a sinful world, what are the implications?
Adam and Eve were not born into a sinful world, nor did they have original sin, yet they sinned anyway.
If someone says we are born into a sinful world, it seems a problem because “the world”, technically cannot be sinful, can it? It’s a creation of God and a tree has no ability to sin.
What explains A & E’s sin, and why can’t our sin be chalked up to the same cause, without the doctrine of OS?
BTW-I’m a staunch Catholic, I’m looking into this to refute the aforementioned claims.

The notions you have expressed were addressed by the Third Ecumenical Council of the Church. Part of the Council agenda was to combat what was known as the Pelagian heresy, which was partly you proposed - a denial of original sin.

To deny original sin means that there is nothing wrong with our nature and that we have the power to save ourselves, To deny original sin means that we do not need God to lift us out of our sinfulness.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[comebacktome]

Dear comebacktome,

The notions you have expressed were addressed by the Third Ecumenical Council of the Church. Part of the Council agenda was to combat what was known as the Pelagian heresy, which was partly you proposed - a denial of original sin.

To deny original sin means that there is nothing wrong with our nature and that we have the power to save ourselves, To deny original sin means that we do not need God to lift us out of our sinfulness.

Blessings,
Marduk

Thank you, thank you! You’ve hit on what I hadn’t thought of!!

 

[CKP0208]

There is no scripture I can find that specifically or Technically states that Man IS BORN into sin but there are so many scriptures that imply this.

He is dead in sins Gen 2:16-17; John 3:5-7; Eph 2:1-3; Col 2:13

He is blinded and corrupt in his heart Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8

And probably the most devastating of all is man’s nature. Or Natural way He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14

The beauty of it all is that Christ saves us from this Natural way. John 1:29 The Lamb of God ] The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

by the way this statment “His seed remains in him” is why in Isaiah Jesus is called the Everlasting Father. this is also why the church is the Body of Christ and NOT THE BRIDE of Christ.

 

[terryobrien80]

Is it a heresy to state that we are not born with original sin?

Yes

.

.
.

 

[steve_b]

There is no scripture I can find that specifically or Technically states that Man IS BORN into sin but there are so many scriptures that imply this.

He is dead in sins Gen 2:16-17; John 3:5-7; Eph 2:1-3; Col 2:13

He is blinded and corrupt in his heart Gen 6:5; Gen 8:21; Ecc 9:3; Jer 17:9; Mark 7:21-23; John 3:19-21; Rom 8:7-8; Eph 4:17-19; Eph 5:8

And probably the most devastating of all is man’s nature. Or Natural way He performs actions freely according to his nature, but his nature is wholly evil Job 14:4; Mat 7:16-18; Mat 12:33; Mark 7:21-23; Jam 1:13-14

The beauty of it all is that Christ saves us from this Natural way. John 1:29 The Lamb of God ] The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

by the way this statment “His seed remains in him” is why in Isaiah Jesus is called the Everlasting Father. this is also why the church is the Body of Christ and NOT THE BRIDE of Christ.

Re:

• original sin in scripture,
• passed on in our nature, to the entire human race from Adam
  Rm 5:
  12* Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned-- 13 sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14* Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. 15* But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16* And the free gift is not like the effect of that one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brings justification. 17 If, because of one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. 18 Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men. 19* For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous

1 Cor 15:
21* For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22* For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23* But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ.

Eph 2:
1 And you he made alive, when you were dead through the trespasses and sins 2* in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among these we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, following the desires of body and mind, and so we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

 

[CKP0208]

To: Steve b

Re:
original sin in scripture,
passed on in our nature, to the entire human race from Adam

Right Steve. Your statement agrees with mine… I was just stating there is NO scripture the Specifically STATEs that a child is born from the womb with sin. Although you and I know this to be true. Why? because of the scriptures That both you and I have quoted.

 

[steve_b]

To: Steve b

Right Steve. Your statement agrees with mine… I was just stating there is NO scripture the Specifically STATEs that a child is born from the womb with sin. Although you and I know this to be true. Why? because of the scriptures That both you and I have quoted.

I didn’t address this from your previous post but would you explain what you meant when you said the following? Thanks

:

by the way this statment “His seed remains in him” is why in Isaiah Jesus is called the Everlasting Father. this is also why the church is the Body of Christ and not the bride of Christ.