Borrowing liturgical language

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I am a Catholic marrying a non-Catholic Christian in a Protestant ceremony (with the appropriate dispensation from canonical form of course and Catholic pre-marriage prep). The Protestant minister officiating wants us to reword the language of the vows according to our preferences. Would it be inappropriate for me to borrow language for the exchange of vows from legitimate Catholic liturgies? I specifically am hoping to use the vows found in the liturgical texts of the Anglican Ordinariates as they are particularly beautiful in my opinion. Obviously it would be inappropriate for a Protestant minister to give anything resembling a Catholic nuptial blessing (which I am hoping to receive at a later date from a priest either way).
 
I don’t see anything especially wrong with this at all.
 
If the minister allows you to select your own vows, by all means you should say vows approved by the Church. Many couples now-a-days exchange vows that aren’t even vows but just a few nice, loving thoughts.
 
twf said:
I am a Catholic marrying a non-Catholic Christian in a Protestant ceremony (with the appropriate dispensation from canonical form of course and Catholic pre-marriage prep). The Protestant minister officiating wants us to reword the language of the vows according to our preferences. Would it be inappropriate for me to borrow language for the exchange of vows from legitimate Catholic liturgies? I specifically am hoping to use the vows found in the liturgical texts of the Anglican Ordinariates as they are particularly beautiful in my opinion. Obviously it would be inappropriate for a Protestant minister to give anything resembling a Catholic nuptial blessing (which I am hoping to receive at a later date from a priest either way).
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Nothing wrong with it, but why not have the Catholic priest officiate and let the minister say a word or two?
 
SyroMalankara said:
Nothing wrong with it, but why not have the Catholic priest officiate and let the minister say a word or two?
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The original plan was to have only a priest in a Catholic ceremony, but this has become impossible. It would obviously remain my personal preference. With the dispensation in place the marriage will be valid and sacramental (as we are both baptized) - and I just want to make the ceremony as “Catholic” as possible without crossing any lines.
 
twf said:
Hmm. If the words aren’t reproduced and distributed, but simply read, does this apply?
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In any liturgical setting, I would think so.

Otherwise, I’m sure this would be done more often.
 
twf said:
The original plan was to have only a priest in a Catholic ceremony, but this has become impossible. It would obviously remain my personal preference. With the dispensation in place the marriage will be valid and sacramental (as we are both baptized) - and I just want to make the ceremony as “Catholic” as possible without crossing any lines.
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Unfortunately, even a perfectly performed replication by a non-Catholic or non-Orthodox clergyman cannot be Catholic. But you right, it would boost the feeling of “right worship”.
 
twf said:
The original plan was to have only a priest in a Catholic ceremony, but this has become impossible. It would obviously remain my personal preference. With the dispensation in place the marriage will be valid and sacramental (as we are both baptized) - and I just want to make the ceremony as “Catholic” as possible without crossing any lines.
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You say a priest is impossible at this time, what about a deacon?
 
SyroMalankara said:
Nothing wrong with it, but why not have the Catholic priest officiate and let the minister say a word or two?
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In a non-Catholic ceremony, a priest or deacon my not officiate. Here is an article from the EWTN website that states this (near the bottom).
 
Is it possible? I should think so.

Is it advisable? That entirely depends on whether your betrothed is on board with this. Take it from someone married (to an Anglican) for many years, this is one area where you should try to achieve consensus.

And if you can’t, and (s)he sticks to her guns and disagrees, it’s one area where I’d choose to lose gracefully 😛

At least you have the satisfaction of knowing it will be valid and sacramental.
 
twf said:
I am a Catholic marrying a non-Catholic Christian in a Protestant ceremony (with the appropriate dispensation from canonical form of course and Catholic pre-marriage prep). The Protestant minister officiating wants us to reword the language of the vows according to our preferences. Would it be inappropriate for me to borrow language for the exchange of vows from legitimate Catholic liturgies? I specifically am hoping to use the vows found in the liturgical texts of the Anglican Ordinariates as they are particularly beautiful in my opinion. Obviously it would be inappropriate for a Protestant minister to give anything resembling a Catholic nuptial blessing (which I am hoping to receive at a later date from a priest either way).
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No, it would not be inappropriate.

There’s nothing wrong with what you’re proposing. Protestant wedding vows (excepting the new modern ones, obviously) were originally Catholic vows, and are all based on Catholic vows anyway.

There’s nothing wrong with using the Catholic texts for the vows if that’s what you would like to do.
 
A priest or deacon may officiate in a non-Catholic church if a dispensation of place is also obtained. It would be a Catholic ceremony in a Protestant church. What cannot be done is a splitting up of the vows, i.e. the Protestant minister asks the vows from the non-Catholic and the priest or deacon asks the vows from the Catholic.
 
OraLabora said:
Is it possible? I should think so.

Is it advisable? That entirely depends on whether your betrothed is on board with this. Take it from someone married (to an Anglican) for many years, this is one area where you should try to achieve consensus.

And if you can’t, and (s)he sticks to her guns and disagrees, it’s one area where I’d choose to lose gracefully 😛

At least you have the satisfaction of knowing it will be valid and sacramental.
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She has now agreed to what essentially amounts to the Anglican Ordinariate vows. 🙂

The groom (me) is Catholic. The bride is Pentecostal. The minister is Christian & Missionary Alliance. The church building is Presbyterian. The vows are Anglican Catholic. The congregation is 90% Evangelical Protestant of various sorts with the odd Catholic thrown in.

When a Catholic ceremony was ruled out some time ago, I was hoping to rent the beautiful old Anglican church, but they only permit Anglican weddings with an Anglican priest…so the also beautiful, old Presbyterian church was the backup. My parents attend the Alliance church, so that’s where the minister comes into play, but as it happens (and I didn’t realize this when I booked the Presbyterian church), the Alliance is a daughter denomination of Presbyterianism.

You’ll appreciated this OraLabora - a good chunk of my Protestant family, including my bride to be, will pray the Office with me when I ask them…🙂
 
FrDavid96 said:
No, it would not be inappropriate.

There’s nothing wrong with what you’re proposing. Protestant wedding vows (excepting the new modern ones, obviously) were originally Catholic vows, and are all based on Catholic vows anyway.

There’s nothing wrong with using the Catholic texts for the vows if that’s what you would like to do.
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Thank you Father.
 
FrDavid96 said:
There’s nothing wrong with using the Catholic texts for the vows if that’s what you would like to do.
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Since one is using someone else’s texts, isn’t there a possibility of copyright infringement here? I was painfully made aware of these when I was aspiring to become a church organist.
 
ProVobis said:
Since one is using someone else’s texts, isn’t there a possibility of copyright infringement here? I was painfully made aware of these when I was aspiring to become a church organist.
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I don’t think so. Wedding vows are part of our culture—not just the fact but the texts themselves. The “standard” versions of the vows appear all over the place. If this was an issue of the entire Catholic Rite of Marriage, then copyright might come into play, but only if it’s printed and handed to the congregation. Each vow is only a single sentence. I’m not a copyright attorney (nor do I play one on the internet) but I just don’t see any problem. Again, the full rite might be a copyright issue, but that’s not what the OP is asking.
 
FrDavid96 said:
I don’t think so. Wedding vows are part of our culture—not just the fact but the texts themselves. The “standard” versions of the vows appear all over the place. If this was an issue of the entire Catholic Rite of Marriage, then copyright might come into play, but only if it’s printed and handed to the congregation. Each vow is only a single sentence. I’m not a copyright attorney (nor do I play one on the internet) but I just don’t see any problem. Again, the full rite might be a copyright issue, but that’s not what the OP is asking.
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Indeed that is what’s asked but the reference to “legitimate Catholic liturgies,” specifically from “the Anglican Ordinate” raised a red flag in my head. It seems at the minimum, a purchase of that text, not a copy or a printout, might be in order if it’s more than one sentence. I’m no copyright attorney either, just going by personal experience with sheet music and playing from them.

Thanks for your response.
 
ProVobis said:
Indeed that is what’s asked but the reference to “legitimate Catholic liturgies,” specifically from “the Anglican Ordinate” raised a red flag in my head. It seems at the minimum, a purchase of that text, not a copy or a printout, might be in order if it’s more than one sentence. I’m no copyright attorney either, just going by personal experience with sheet music and playing from them.

Thanks for your response.
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I am only adopting the vows themselves, not the rest of the ceremony. In addition, a couple of the words have been tweaked. (For example, we changed “With my body I thee worship” to “With my body I thee honour” to prevent confusion to the modern ear).

I used the official Catholic texts as promulgated for the Anglican Ordinariates as a guide, but that language, I imagine, comes straight from the Book of Common Prayer (with a few tweaks), which at one point would have, I imagine, come from the pre-Reformation Catholic Sarum Rite of England. I think Father David makes good points about “cultural patrimony”.
 
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