Bosphorus swim team?

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Byzcat

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I’m really not sure which body of water was involved when I came home to the Church- the Tiber or the Bosphorus. See, I was baptized in the Latin Rite, wasn’t raised in the church whatsoever, and chrismated Byzantine. So aside from some points of Marian doctrine (we don’t filioque), I’m theologically and spritually very close to the Eastern Orthodox churches. Yet my church is in full communion with Rome.

And BTW, what’s the big deal about filioque anyway? From where I’m sitting it seems like a theological quibble.
 
Either the Danube or the Torysa… depending on how far East:byzsoc:
 
Byzcat said:
I’m really not sure which body of water was involved when I came home to the Church- the Tiber or the Bosphorus. See, I was baptized in the Latin Rite, wasn’t raised in the church whatsoever, and chrismated Byzantine. So aside from some points of Marian doctrine (we don’t filioque), I’m theologically and spritually very close to the Eastern Orthodox churches. Yet my church is in full communion with Rome.

And BTW, what’s the big deal about filioque anyway? From where I’m sitting it seems like a theological quibble.
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The filioque, though it is often trotted out as THE reason for the Schism between Orthodox and Catholics, is in my opinion a red herring and only one of many things that caused the split. There were political, geographical and linguistic influences which brought about the split.

Nowadays, at least from the Orthodox side, the reason for the split remaining is pure stubborness. When I was attending an Orthodox parish, the only things I heard about Catholicism were negative. OTOH, Catholics I have met who have heard of the Orthodox church say nothing but good things about it. 🤷

If i remember correctly, most of the Eastern Catholic Churches (including Byzantine-Ruthenian) were Eastern Churches which sought full communion with Rome, and were granted such, and allowed to retain all their Eastern practices, traditions and theologies. It is the best of both worlds (at least for me). 🙂
 
Mickey said:
Really?
Does this personal experience constitute the basis of your hypothesis? :nope:
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That and a lot of reading, yes. I can’t speak for the entire Orthodox church, of course, but the Orthodox individuals I knew were all very negative regarding possible unification with Rome. They were very derisive towards those Eastern Churches which are in communion with Rome (the “Uniate” churches), saying that those churches had renounced the true Faith and were apostate.

Mostly, though, they liked to pretend as if the Catholic Church just didn’t exist. 🤷
 
Mickey said:
Thank you.
And I have met many stubborn Catholics–so your point is moot.

Again. I have seen it both ways.

Projection is a two way street. 😦
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very true. I am only speaking of my own experience within the Orthodox Church. As is often said on the Internet, YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary). 🙂
 
Alright, y’all, quit fussin’ in my thread.

Pathcunky, I’m Italo-Greek Byzantine, so I’m not that far east.
 
catherineajt said:
Nowadays, at least from the Orthodox side, the reason for the split remaining is pure stubborness. When I was attending an Orthodox parish, the only things I heard about Catholicism were negative. OTOH, Catholics I have met who have heard of the Orthodox church say nothing but good things about it. 🤷
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Hi Catherine,

I wish you would stop presenting your personal experience as hard objective fact. Regardless of the experience you had in the Orthodox Church, the fact remains that other people (myself included) can and do have the opposite of the experience that you describe here. 🤷
 
Oops, I posted before I read the rest of the thread. Looks like Mickey feels the same way 👍 :byzsoc:
 
The filioque, though it is often trotted out as THE reason for the Schism between Orthodox and Catholics, is in my opinion a red herring and only one of many things that caused the split. There were political, geographical and linguistic influences which brought about the split.
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Can Christ not overcome political, geographical and linguistic differences to maintain his Church’s unity? It could only be a diversion from the Truth by one side or the other, a departure from Christ, which lead to the schism.
Nowadays, at least from the Orthodox side, the reason for the split remaining is pure stubborness. When I was attending an Orthodox parish, the only things I heard about Catholicism were negative. OTOH, Catholics I have met who have heard of the Orthodox church say nothing but good things about it.
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Stubborness? The same charge exactly can be levelled against the Catholic Church - indeed, the split would be over if either Church conceded its own basic truths away to the other; if an unwillingness to do this is considered stubborness, then stubborn they are.
If i remember correctly, most of the Eastern Catholic Churches (including Byzantine-Ruthenian) were Eastern Churches which sought full communion with Rome, and were granted such, and allowed to retain all their Eastern practices, traditions and theologies. It is the best of both worlds (at least for me).
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“Full, ordinary and universal jurisdiction”

Vatican I

At this stage in my journey, either the Catholics or the Orthodox are fully right - there is no meeting point in the middle, for the above two have obliterated it.
 
wynd said:
Hi Catherine,

I wish you would stop presenting your personal experience as hard objective fact. Regardless of the experience you had in the Orthodox Church, the fact remains that other people (myself included) can and do have the opposite of the experience that you describe here. 🤷
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6 hours before you posted this she noted this was her experience. By now I think it goes without saying that people are posting their personal opinions - no need to get our dander up if the standard disclaimers aren’t included in each and every post.

Catherine posts on her experience, a number of ex-Catholics who went Eastern Orthodox on here post about theirs. When the source is considered, at the end of the day, people can be discerning.
 
catherineajt said:
Nowadays, at least from the Orthodox side, the reason for the split remaining is pure stubborness.
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Name one of the divisive post-schism dogmas that Rome has offered to give up.
Most Orthodox I know would reunite in a heartbeat if Rome would give up the double procession of the Holy Spirit and papal universal jurisdiction and infallibility. Joe
 
Alethiaphile said:
Name one of the divisive post-schism dogmas that Rome has offered to give up.
Most Orthodox I know would reunite in a heartbeat if Rome would give up the double procession of the Holy Spirit and papal universal jurisdiction and infallibility. Joe
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You have much to learn about the Catholic Church…

Al-Masih Qam!

Andrew
 
My biggest problem with E. Orthodox on a personal level is the bitterness I have seen in her priests. Now granted this is not a universal truth, but my expirience.

My Great Grandma was Antiocian Orthodox western rite, and her priest was actually a fairly nice guy.

There seems to be a lot of bitterness as I stated before. In my own expirience I have seen alot of bitterness from the Eastern Orthodox as a response to Catholics reaching out. That is the general perception I have gathered though.

I would love for Church unity.
 
Alethiaphile said:
Name one of the divisive post-schism dogmas that Rome has offered to give up.
Most Orthodox I know would reunite in a heartbeat if Rome would give up the double procession of the Holy Spirit and papal universal jurisdiction and infallibility. Joe
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You know some remarkably generous Orthodox. From the critiques I have heard, the moment a Pope of Rome cast of his mitre, ripped up the documents some think are problematic teachings, and through himself at the mercy of the EO patriarchs, begging re-union… the infighting would begin! Who would be prepared to accept him? Who would be prepared to even acknowledge he is a priest - the abbot of Saint Catherines called JP2 the “President of the Vatican” rather than a bishop… The modern Roman rite which is a beloved target among some of the more condescending parties who critique Rome from an Eastern vantage… Certainly they would not be pleased with that, and would want reforms… And who would say what reforms exactly must be had?
 
Alethiaphile said:
Really? That’s odd, since I’ve been a practicing Catholic for 22 years. Joe
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I have been a practicing Catholic for many years too. We all have much too learn. Even the Pope learns new things as he grows closer to the Lord. We all should be continually learning more and never so pridefull to think we know it all, or that we dont have much more to learn.
 
Alethiaphile said:
Name one of the divisive post-schism dogmas that Rome has offered to give up.
Most Orthodox I know would reunite in a heartbeat if Rome would give up the double procession of the Holy Spirit and papal universal jurisdiction and infallibility. Joe
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This may be true for a lot of Orthodox, but I know that there are many hard liners who would be very reluctant to reunite. Reunion between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox has been–and continues to be–very difficult for those on both sides…and they share (nearly) identical beliefs!

A
 
Algernon said:
This may be true for a lot of Orthodox, but I know that there are many hard liners who would be very reluctant to reunite. Reunion between the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox has been–and continues to be–very difficult for those on both sides…and they share (nearly) identical beliefs!

A
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Eh, I wouldn’t say that. The Oriental Orthodox are closer, from what I’ve read, to reuniting with Rome. They had accepted the primacy of Rome and their breaking away had much more to do with Christological issues than authority.

The Syriac Orthodox are the closest to reuniting to Rome, while some of the others are not. See this link.

Al-Masih Qam!
Andrew
 
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