Both of us are heartbroken

  • Thread starter Thread starter YiSan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Y

YiSan

Guest
My wife recently returned to the Catholic Church and I have been going with her. I talked to the Father today about RCIA instruction. Everything was okay until I told him that my wife of almost 40 years was previously married. Since they were both Catholic and were married in a Catholic Church, there is a BIG problem, the worst of which is that she cannot take communion (this crushed her emotionally). Although she can apply for an annulment, since there was no violation of “form” things don’t look to good for an approval.

I have been up all night thinking about and worrying about this. For her previous husband to treat her like dirt way back then, and now for him to get a second chance to hurt her (maybe permanently) though canon law is just heartbreaking.

I find it hard to fathom that a Catholic could commit any sin (even murder) and be forgiven and allowed to take communion but that this wonderful lady cannot. I am so distraught that my hands are shaking while I type this.

There is probably more that I need to get off of my chest but the emotion is strangling my ability to think clearly…
 
YiSan said:
My wife recently returned to the Catholic Church and I have been going with her. I talked to the Father today about RCIA instruction. Everything was okay until I told him that my wife of almost 40 years was previously married. Since they were both Catholic and were married in a Catholic Church, there is a BIG problem, the worst of which is that she cannot take communion (this crushed her emotionally). Although she can apply for an annulment, since there was no violation of “form” things don’t look to good for an approval.

I have been up all night thinking about and worrying about this. For her previous husband to treat her like dirt way back then, and now for him to get a second chance to hurt her (maybe permanently) though canon law is just heartbreaking.

I find it hard to fathom that a Catholic could commit any sin (even murder) and be forgiven and allowed to take communion but that this wonderful lady cannot. I am so distraught that my hands are shaking while I type this.

There is probably more that I need to get off of my chest but the emotion is strangling my ability to think clearly…
Click to expand...
Why can’t she receive Communion. All she has to do is go to Confession and agree to a life of continence (no sex).
 
The Father stated that our marriage is invalid and the mere fact that we live together is adultery and that we are living in sin…
 
YiSan said:
…
Click to expand...
This may help to understand from Pope St. John Paul II:e) Divorced Persons Who Have Remarried
  1. Daily experience unfortunately shows that people who have obtained a divorce usually intend to enter into a new union, obviously not with a Catholic religious ceremony. Since this is an evil that, like the others, is affecting more and more Catholics as well, the problem must be faced with resolution and without delay. The Synod Fathers studied it expressly. The Church, which was set up to lead to salvation all people and especially the baptized, cannot abandon to their own devices those who have been previously bound by sacramental marriage and who have attempted a second marriage. The Church will therefore make untiring efforts to put at their disposal her means of salvation.
    Pastors must know that, for the sake of truth, they are obliged to exercise careful discernment of situations. There is in fact a difference between those who have sincerely tried to save their first marriage and have been unjustly abandoned, and those who through their own grave fault have destroyed a canonically valid marriage. Finally, there are those who have entered into a second union for the sake of the children’s upbringing, and who are sometimes subjectively certain in conscience that their previous and irreparably destroyed marriage had never been valid.
    Together with the Synod, I earnestly call upon pastors and the whole community of the faithful to help the divorced, and with solicitous care to make sure that they do not consider themselves as separated from the Church, for as baptized persons they can, and indeed must, share in her life. They should be encouraged to listen to the word of God, to attend the Sacrifice of the Mass, to persevere in prayer, to contribute to works of charity and to community efforts in favor of justice, to bring up their children in the Christian faith, to cultivate the spirit and practice of penance and thus implore, day by day, God’s grace. Let the Church pray for them, encourage them and show herself a merciful mother, and thus sustain them in faith and hope.
    However, the Church reaffirms her practice, which is based upon Sacred Scripture, of not admitting to Eucharistic Communion divorced persons who have remarried. They are unable to be admitted thereto from the fact that their state and condition of life objectively contradict that union of love between Christ and the Church which is signified and effected by the Eucharist. Besides this, there is another special pastoral reason: if these people were admitted to the Eucharist, the faithful would be led into error and confusion regarding the Church’s teaching about the indissolubility of marriage.
    Reconciliation in the sacrament of Penance which would open the way to the Eucharist, can only be granted to those who, repenting of having broken the sign of the Covenant and of fidelity to Christ, are sincerely ready to undertake a way of life that is no longer in contradiction to the indissolubility of marriage. This means, in practice, that when, for serious reasons, such as for example the children’s upbringing, a man and a woman cannot satisfy the obligation to separate, they “take on themselves the duty to live in complete continence, that is, by abstinence from the acts proper to married couples.”(180)
    Similarly, the respect due to the sacrament of Matrimony, to the couples themselves and their families, and also to the community of the faithful, forbids any pastor, for whatever reason or pretext even of a pastoral nature, to perform ceremonies of any kind for divorced people who remarry. Such ceremonies would give the impression of the celebration of a new sacramentally valid marriage, and would thus lead people into error concerning the indissolubility of a validly contracted marriage.
    By acting in this way, the Church professes her own fidelity to Christ and to His truth. At the same time she shows motherly concern for these children of hers, especially those who, through no fault of their own, have been abandoned by their legitimate partner.
    With firm confidence she believes that those who have rejected the Lord’s command and are still living in this state will be able to obtain from God the grace of conversion and salvation, provided that they have persevered in prayer, penance and charity.
    vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_19811122_familiaris-consortio_en.html
 
YiSan said:
The Father stated that our marriage is invalid and the mere fact that we live together is adultery and that we are living in sin…
Click to expand...
According to the Church’s teaching, this is true, but don’t despair.
Depending on the circumstances of your wife’s first marrage, primarily was it in the church, annulment could be a simple process. Then a validation of you marriage.
in the mean time, as another poster indicated, you and live like brother an sister, she goes to the sacrament of reconciliation, she can recieve communion.
Keep in mind, this is not condemning for sin. If we are to respect marriage, we must follow Chtist teaching. There is a process to be followed to make things right.
Peace, Deacon Frank
 
YiSan said:
My wife recently returned to the Catholic Church and I have been going with her. I talked to the Father today about RCIA instruction. Everything was okay until I told him that my wife of almost 40 years was previously married. Since they were both Catholic and were married in a Catholic Church, there is a BIG problem, the worst of which is that she cannot take communion (this crushed her emotionally). Although she can apply for an annulment, since there was no violation of “form” things don’t look to good for an approval.

I have been up all night thinking about and worrying about this. For her previous husband to treat her like dirt way back then, and now for him to get a second chance to hurt her (maybe permanently) though canon law is just heartbreaking.

I find it hard to fathom that a Catholic could commit any sin (even murder) and be forgiven and allowed to take communion but that this wonderful lady cannot. I am so distraught that my hands are shaking while I type this.

There is probably more that I need to get off of my chest but the emotion is strangling my ability to think clearly…
Click to expand...
I would encourage you to seek an annulment. A couple things will happen. Your wife might find that she has some closure with this process. You may/probably (depending on where you live) be quite surprised at the likelihood of an annulment.

I would also encourage you not to put the cart before the horse here. Continue with the RCIA and annulment process and I think you will find that God’s plan for you is indeed quite satisfying.
 
Right now it must feel like the roof caved in on you both. That feeling isn’t gong to go away in an instant. But when you’re ready to start thinking about the future, have faith. This isn’t the end.

It is possible that your wife’s first marriage was not valid. Work with the priest to seek a declaration of nullity. It will take time and effort, but it is possible. Then the two of you can celebrate your marriage in the Church and go forward together.

You’re in my prayers.
 
YiSan said:
Although she can apply for an annulment, since there was no violation of “form” things don’t look to good for an approval.
Click to expand...
There are many, many annulments given for reasons other than “form.” You really need to look into it before giving up.
 
My heart goes out to you. I don’t have any advice, but please know I’m praying for you.
 
YiSan said:
The Father stated that our marriage is invalid and the mere fact that we live together is adultery and that we are living in sin…
Click to expand...
Well, if you are actually “living in sin,” then, yes, the priest is correct. “Living in sin” isn’t just some old phrase that the elderly throw around over a game of bridge when talking about wayward grandchildren. It is a serious spiritual condition that impedes your life in Christ. Your wife could start receiving Holy Communion literally today if she went to confession and resolved to live a life of chastity. Are you willing to do that for her and for our Lord? That is basically what it comes down to. If her first marriage cannot be annulled, Jesus Himself taught that the marriage cannot be dissolved. It still binds her. I understand the difficulty of that teaching and how hard that might be to accept when you likely consider yourself her rightful husband. But you can love her in the most beautiful, sacrificial way possible by allowing her (and you) to live in chastity until the validity of the first marriage is determined (and, if deemed valid, then for your lives thereafter). Is that hard stuff? Absolutely. But that is a cross that leads to Heaven, and therefore it is most definitely worth carrying.

Talk to each other and the pastor about the possibility of living as brother and sister and be very patient with each other and with the process. I’ll pray for your both.
 
Thank you to all who have given us your thoughts. We will be seeing the father again I am sure once he gets guidance from the Diocese. We will continue to attend Mass each week but I will probably have to put confirmation on hold (I have already been baptized years ago in another denomination).

Thank you again to everyone…
 
Colorad007 said:
Well, if you are actually "living in sin," then, yes, the priest is correct. “Living in sin” isn’t just some old phrase that the elderly throw around over a game of bridge when talking about wayward grandchildren. It is a serious spiritual condition that impedes your life in Christ. Your wife could start receiving Holy Communion literally today if she went to confession and resolved to live a life of chastity. Are you willing to do that for her and for our Lord? That is basically what it comes down to. If her first marriage cannot be annulled, Jesus Himself taught that the marriage cannot be dissolved. It still binds her. I understand the difficulty of that teaching and how hard that might be to accept when you likely consider yourself her rightful husband. But you can love her in the most beautiful, sacrificial way possible by allowing her (and you) to live in chastity until the validity of the first marriage is determined (and, if deemed valid, then for your lives thereafter). Is that hard stuff? Absolutely. But that is a cross that leads to Heaven, and therefore it is most definitely worth carrying.

Talk to each other and the pastor about the possibility of living as brother and sister and be very patient with each other and with the process. I’ll pray for your both.
Click to expand...
This is not true. My wife (legally) and I have been together for 33 years. My wife’s first husband is dead. My ex-wife (legally) is still alive. I was not able to get an annulment. My wife and I agreed to live a life of continence which we do. We were not asked to split up and we continue to receive Communion.

What I am saying you cannot make a blanket statement saying living together is a sin. Its not as simple as that and not necessarily correct.
 
thistle said:
This is not true. My wife (legally) and I have been together for 33 years. My wife’s first husband is dead. My ex-wife (legally) is still alive. I was not able to get an annulment. My wife and I agreed to live a life of continence which we do. We were not asked to split up and we continue to receive Communion.

What I am saying you cannot make a blanket statement saying living together is a sin. Its not as simple as that and not necessarily correct.
Click to expand...
That’s not what I said. I began my post with the qualifier if you are actually ‘living in sin’. It isn’t living in sin if you aren’t sinning. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.
 
YiSan,

I am truly sorry for the hardship and and pain your and your wife are under going.
It’s situations like this that the Church needs to address in a pastoral way, and not in a Pharisicially way.

Sometimes in an organization, and yes the Catholic Church at some level is a religious organziation, will see thru the legalisms that wound the Body of Christ, and get to the healing.

Your story is a perfect example of who is falling thru the cracks of the canonical legal eagles of the powers that be.
 
Colorad007 said:
That’s not what I said. I began my post with the qualifier if you are actually ‘living in sin’. It isn’t living in sin if you aren’t sinning. I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear enough.
Click to expand...
My apologies. I misread the post.
 
YiSan said:
I have been up all night thinking about and worrying about this. For her previous husband to treat her like dirt way back then, and now for him to get a second chance to hurt her (maybe permanently) though canon law is just heartbreaking.
Click to expand...
The annulment process doesn’t require both parties to agree on its undertaking. It just needs one. Don’t get more witnesses than required and try to get dependable ones. Be specific with your answers. There will be followup questions if any responses are left vague and that will definitely drag out the process. This whole annulment process might be reformed later this year but I wouldn’t count on it too much.
 
agnes_therese said:
There are many, many annulments given for reasons other than “form.” You really need to look into it before giving up.
Click to expand...
Please look into it. Do not be afraid of the process because it can be a great blessing in and of itself.
 
Hi YiSan,

I’m deeply sorry for your situation and I’m praying for you. I would also encourage you to seek the annulment.

I’d like to clarify a piece of advice that was given to you above. Someone wrote that you can continue living with your wife as long as you don’t have sex. That’s not accurate. That option only exists “when, for serious reasons, such as for example the children’s upbringing, a man and a woman cannot satisfy the obligation to separate” (Familiaris Consortio #84).

So unless you and your wife have kids at home that still require raising or you have some other “serious reason”, you have an “obligation to separate” until an annulment is granted or your wife’s previous husband dies.

I can’t imagine how tough this must be, but the reasoning is very simple: unless proven otherwise, your wife is still married to another man. That means you’re living with someone else’s wife. You don’t sound like the kind of man who would intentionally do such a thing. You didn’t know and you acted in good faith. But that doesn’t change reality. Now you know and you should act in accordance with the sound values which are in you. This is God’s will for you and he will be delighted with you if you obey Him.

Don’t be afraid. God will always give you the strength to do his will.
 
I again wish to thank everyone for all of the heartfelt insight and concern that you have shown. I have decided to take a somewhat unconventional path at least for the short term.

Until we can work our way through an annulment for her first marriage (difficult since we cannot locate him), I have talked her into attending an Episcopal Church. While some may disagree with this solution, my back is to a wall. Living as brother and sister is just not going to happen. There is no going around that we are husband and wife and that for us, we cannot accept anything less. Additionally, and importantly, I cannot continue to see the pain in her eyes, nor accept how uncomfortable and ashamed she is when she cannot go down for communion. At least this way she can worship in relative peace. The Episcopal church allows her to accept communion.

Being a traditional Filipino, she has been brought up to trust and defer to her husband. I will take this upon my shoulders. This wonderful woman has been the one shining light in my life and I just cannot let her bear any more pain.

Again, I wish to thank all who have attempted to help us through these trying times. My temporary solution may not be the right one, but it is the path that I have chosen for us and she appears to be happy with it. For me, that is a wonderful thing…
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top