Boundaries/vent

[Anglewannabe]

I just came back from a business seminar and I really need to vent. First I need to say that I am an EXTREMELY introvert person. I need regular time outs in order to not get cranky. This was a 2 day event with social activities planned in the evening. I am the type of person who when I have a job, I like to eat my lunch at my desk and read. I also am the type of person who likes to leave by myself at quitting time. I was never one to join the gang that went for a drink after work. I am usually exhausted and just want my time out.

So for the 2 days, I put on a brave face and was social and tried to put aside the fact that I wanted my space and participated in all the activities and ate with others to make a good impression. I am not working and I want to join this organization and make a good impression to have something to put on my resume to look good and compensate that for the fact have not worked in over a year.

There is this one lady ‘Sally’. She needs help with a particular aspect of this committee and I agreed to take the position to be able to join the board. I have had interactions with her over the past few years but now my time with Sally is increasing more than I like. I do think she has a good heart deep down, but her rough exterior can be hard to get past. She knows I am a devout Catholic and will purposely bring up the abortion debate and then tell me she only does it to see how I would react. Let’s just say I made it clear she should not do that again.

Well, Sally, I am starting to think has a serious abandonment issue. When an activity is over, she wants to stay and talk forever !!! All I can think is ‘this was a long seminar I want to go home and soak in the tub and this lady just does not shut up.’ Whenever I need to talk business with her, she always changes the topic. I have had meetings with her where we would only get 20 minutes worth of business done in over 2 hours because she constantly changes the topic. For example I will say ‘When should we plan the next seminar?’ Expecting an answer such as ‘September’. But no, she will say ‘Last time we tried to have one in August everyone was away on holidays. Jane can never make it because she goes to the cottage up north. Her and her husband bought a cottage. She thinks since they spend so much time there it would be cheaper to buy. But the interest rates are going to go up soon and it is going to be expensive. Interest rates are a good deal ….’ And blah blah blah and on it goes about NOTHING to do about business. I have literally been at a meeting where another woman’s cell went off. Her husband was concerned she was in a car accident since she was suppose to be home 1 hour ago. Sally kept insisting the woman stay and look at her garden while Sally prepared treat bags for her kids. This woman had to repeat herself at least 3 times ‘My husband wants me home’ and it just went over Sally’s head.

Well, I wish I could take Sally with a grain of salt but I can’t. I was really resentful towards her and I noticed I have been cranky with everyone else I talked to today and I am going to have to set a boundary. But boundaries go straight over her head.

For example we were having a coffee in the hotel this morning. As usual, she did not shut up. Finally I found a good time to say ‘Well, I need to get going’. I got up and she walked over to me, gave me a thoughtful look and said ‘Angie, I like being your friend’ in a caring tone. Then she went on to say ‘We are so different and that is what makes it interesting’ and on and on for 10 minutes. Well, I managed to get rid of her. Then, in the parking lot she saw me. She ran over to me to talk again. !!! What else is there to say ???

I just do NOT know how to handle her. When I make it crystal clear I want to leave, she all of a sudden wants to offer to help me or compliment me to get me to stay. Honestly, I am thinking the next time we meet, I am going to be upfront and say ‘I need to leave at 9’ and come 9 I will get up and go and not care how rude I am

ARRRRGGGGHHHHH

Thanks for reading

Angie

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Sounds like a plan. This kind of person will not respect boundaries that others would, so you just need to cut her off and leave. As for the business meetings, it would be helpful to have more than one person to keep her from sidetracking the meeting. If everyone humors Sally, that organization is dysfunctional.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

Hahaha. I hear ya I’m a introvert too. I sometimes get annoyed when people start talking to me (or just talking at me) with all kinds of unnecessary chatter. Small talk for a few moments is ok. I like the occasional joke or “messing with each other” too. But don’t try to tell me your life story when it is time to go or when we need to be talking about something work-related. And you had better be a extremely good looking girl if you are trying to start a conversation with me when I am sitting alone thinking about something hard!

 

[SecretaryMonday]

Set this as your ringtone and program it to go off every 10 minutes or so:

youtu.be/bw4pnQNbBxE

It probably won’t phase Sally, but it might at least make you smile inside.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

I know there is a time for work and a time for play and Sally seems to overlap the two. It also seems like Sally really wants/thinks y’all are friends. Maybe you should tell her that you aren’t there to make bffs?
To me, it just seems like she is a Chatty Cathy and you don’t like it. Don’t act interested in what she is saying. Ignore her and she will shut up. When I’m ignored, I shut up. lol.

 

[Deana83]

I just do NOT know how to handle her. When I make it crystal clear I want to leave, she all of a sudden wants to offer to help me or compliment me to get me to stay. Honestly, I am thinking the next time we meet, I am going to be upfront and say ‘I need to leave at 9’ and come 9 I will get up and go and not care how rude I am.
Angie

You answered your own question- You do know how you have to handle her but you’re a nice person and don’t want to be rude so you put up with it. You’re not the one being rude, she is She may have abandonment issues but it isn’t your job to fix them.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

By the way, Angie, I’m mostly an extrovert but I DESPISE all this teamwork and events after work and on weekends. I think work is for work hours and if you can’t get the work done during work hours then there is something wrong. I think having events after work takes away from precious family time and I would only do it once or twice a year, if I owned a business. Like, a Christmas party where the families are invited, and maybe a summer picnic. Again, no events where the families weren’t invited. That’s just me, though. I know most workplaces force employees to meet up after work, and it can hold one back in the company unless they participate. What garbage!

 

[EasterJoy]

You know, I know someone like Sally, and what she really needs is someone to say, “No, Sally.” She can handle it, and she may even appreciate it.

“No, Sally…focus! Meeting date. We need to set one.”

“No, Sally, I mean I need to go now. Remember at the beginning of the meetings, I said 55 minutes, not 60, and not 65? It’s been 56 minutes. I’m going now. We’re going to have to figure out ________ at another time.” Grab the coat, grab the keys, wave and smile but do not stop walking towards transportation (or your next appointment, even if it is an appointment for private time with your own office) for anything!

I don’t think she has separation issues. I think she is a super extrovert with a motor brain and a motor mouth that hardly know how to idle, let alone turn off, and the chances are that if you are a firm set of brakes in her life, she’ll not take offense. You can be blunt with her, and you can do it without being rude. Just be direct and insistent. You can even be cheerful and show some little bit of affection for her foibles…provided she lets you dodge them! Even if she doesn’t like it, well, everyone else in meetings with her sure won’t mind! They’ll probably all kiss your feet on the ride down the elevator.

 

[Anglewannabe]

I know there is a time for work and a time for play and Sally seems to overlap the two. It also seems like Sally really wants/thinks y’all are friends. Maybe you should tell her that you aren’t there to make bffs?
To me, it just seems like she is a Chatty Cathy and you don’t like it. Don’t act interested in what she is saying. Ignore her and she will shut up. When I’m ignored, I shut up. lol.

First, we did have the discussion about not being there to make friends. She just saw it as an opportunity to contradict me by saying she use to be like that and now sees how wrong it is. She even said, I am so busy if I want friends I have to make them through work. And she expects me to be the same.

As for ignoring her. That is not my style, I just would feel too rude. Personally, I would be more comfortable saying ‘I am no longer listening’. I think it is more polite to let the person know what you are doing then to just ignore.

As an aside. What amazes me is she really is a very busy person and I have no idea why she would even want to stay behind and talk when she has so much to do. Then again, I have caught her more than once literally sleeping in business seminars

Angie

 

[Anglewannabe]

By the way, Angie, I’m mostly an extrovert but I DESPISE all this teamwork and events after work and on weekends. I think work is for work hours and if you can’t get the work done during work hours then there is something wrong. I think having events after work takes away from precious family time!

I am with you on that one. But since I am single and have no kids, people don’t see why I can not join them. They don’t understand I want a social life where I can be myself and say what I want without worrying it will affect my performance review

Angie

 

[Anglewannabe]

You know, I know someone like Sally, and what she really needs is someone to say, “No, Sally.” She can handle it, and she may even appreciate it.

“No, Sally…focus! Meeting date. We need to set one.”

.

Sadly, I have tried that and it did not work. We were discussing something (I do not even remember what but I remember Sally’s tangent) and she said ‘Bob had to quit this committee to have time for his 2 young kids, now he wants to join a different committee which will require more time and I don’t know how he will do it if he has 2 kids’

I replied ‘Sally, this is getting into gossip, I don’t need to know Bob’s personal business’ and she disagreed ‘No, this is to give you context as to the history of the committee’. I sensed an argument was coming so I did not say anything because I was petrified a 2 hour debate on what constitutes gossip would occur

 

[EasterJoy]

Sadly, I have tried that and it did not work. We were discussing something (I do not even remember what but I remember Sally’s tangent) and she said ‘Bob had to quit this committee to have time for his 2 young kids, now he wants to join a different committee which will require more time and I don’t know how he will do it if he has 2 kids’

I replied ‘Sally, this is getting into gossip, I don’t need to know Bob’s personal business’ and she disagreed ‘No, this is to give you context as to the history of the committee’. I sensed an argument was coming so I did not say anything because I was petrified a 2 hour debate on what constitutes gossip would occur

Forgive me for giving into rash judgment and gossip, but I think Bob decided that life is too short to spend any of it on a committee with Sally. Besides, the high blood pressure it causes could keep him from living to see his grandchildren.

How do other people at work handle Sally? I suspect they are indulging in the equivalent of “Look! Is that Bob?” and then running away as soon as she turns to look. This could explain the “Angie, I like being your friend” comment. Maybe Angie is slower off the blocks than everyone else! Seriously, though, you ought to ask if they have any hints for keeping her on the topic of conversation…so as to stay efficient of course, because nothing against Sally. (I know how these stories get around in the workplace. Careless talk isn’t just a sin, it can turn your workplace into a political Purgatory!)

 

[Anglewannabe]

Forgive me for giving into rash judgment and gossip, but I think Bob decided that life is too short to spend any of it on a committee with Sally. Besides, the high blood pressure it causes could keep him from living to see his grandchildren.

Ok, now that I got tha t out of my system, I will try to be more charitable

How do other people at work handle Sally? I suspect they are indulging in the equivalent of “Look! Is that Bob?” and then running away as soon as she turns to look. This could explain the “Angie, I like being your friend” comment. Maybe Angie is slower off the blocks than everyone else! Seriously, though, you ought to ask if they have any hints for keeping her on the topic of conversation…so as to stay efficient of course, because nothing against Sally. (I know how these stories get around in the workplace. Careless talk isn’t just a sin, it can turn your workplace into a political Purgatory!)

I need to clarify that I do NOT work with her. This is a professional organization in my town that has the purpose of sponsoring networking events, seminars and professional volunteer opportunities. I am joining the committee to enhance my resume.

Since I am new, I do NOT want to ask anyone how to handle Sally. I do not want to appear to be difficult. After time and I have a chance to feel everyone out, I will carefully choose who to confide in.

Some people show up with their spouse and leave together. I suspect she tends to pick on the people who show up alone more. She is forever saying ‘when I first met Mary, she did not like me’ and she says that about more than 1 person. I could go on and on about here but that is just circling the problem. I will have to be firm next time. I almost feel like saying 'remember that workshop we attended on time management, let’s practice what we learned. Knowing her she will think it is a joke and go off tangent. But I will repeat ‘I honestly feel that following an outline as was discussed in the workshop is a good idea’

Oh, the frustration

Angie

 

[DaveBj]

At some point in your dealings with this woman you are going to have to make a decision (and it will have to be YOUR decision, because nothing is going to change her, short of tying her up and locking her in a closet) – either you’re going to have to put up with her (let your eyes glaze, nod, say “Uh-huh,” live with it and just live with the frustration, or you’re going to have to put your foot down, be rude and nasty, and tell her that you’re done with whatever business it was that was under discussion and that she should get out of your face.

One of the Friedman twins (Abby van Buren or Ann Landers, I don’t remember which; it may have been both of them at various times) said that nobody can impose on you without your permission. If you don’t want the imposition, you need to withdraw the permission that Sally thinks you have given. You don’t need to be nice about it.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am with you on that one. But since I am single and have no kids, people don’t see why I can not join them. They don’t understand I want a social life where I can be myself and say what I want without worrying it will affect my performance review

Angie

Exactly. Meeting off-site from the workplace is a mine field, IMO totally unnecessary and should be extinguished ASAP. What do people do who are recovering alcoholics, when the others meet for “happy hour?”

Anyway, this rant doesn’t get you any closer to a solution with Sally. You’ll be in my prayers.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Ok, I need to give an update. Sally is very disorganized. I will be taking over her position on the committee and I need to know what has happened in the past. She has the contact information of a lot of people and I will need it but she is unwilling to give it to me.

This is what I did. I created an Excel template where I listed in all the columns the information I needed. Then I said ‘I know you are busy but if you forward me the emails, then I will fill out the spreadsheet’. She refused. She basically said that was not priority at this time. Well…… we agreed over 2 months ago that I would take over. I don’t see why I cannot have what I will need. She has had plenty of time to pass it on. I suspect it is a character trait of hers she likes to keep people dangling on a string I am not going to push the idea because I do not want to be categorised as disrespecting her boundaries. But I must admit, I don’t know why she is being so secretive.

Then in an email she went on to say the most urgent thing was to finalized the details of the next event and if I could start to think of what to do for the events for next year. That seemed like a contradiction. Am I suppose to finalized the next event of plan the ones further down the road???

Immediately after she sent the email she called me. She has barely contacted me about this and when I take initiative, all of a sudden she wants everything right away. It left a bad taste in my mouth. And again, she was all over the place talking about the dress she was to sew. I said ‘OK, I need to bring you back to abc.’ Surprisingly, that actually worked. At the end of the conversation, I repeated the tasks I would do. I like action plans.

What kills me is during the conversation, she was asking for my ideas and everyone I suggested she had a reason to disagree. Now, she has been doing this for years so I want to learn from her experience. Yet, knowing the type of person she is, I can’t help but think it is her agenda.

I also hate how I have to learn everything from the start and not from her. Let me explain. I suggested an idea for an activity. The first words out of her mouth was ‘that is not good for this time of the year because the people who are usually interested in those events are available in February.’ I don’t get why she didn’t tell me straight off the bat ‘The next activity we tend to plan at this time of the year is around XYZ’. Why did she ask for an idea when there is already a proven method?

She keeps me out of the loop on a lot of things and then says she does not want to overwhelm me. Well her total disorganization and being all over the map is what overwhelms me.

Then, I said to her ‘While you are bargaining with vendors, can I please be cc’d in the email. I need to learn the types of questions to ask and get a feel for how things are done.’ She bluntly replied ‘No I will email you when everything is finalized’. When I asked why she said ‘That is not how things are done. Sales people are busy and they don’t need their emails cc’d to 10 different sales people’ Huh??? I remained polite and said ‘But we are not sending to other sales people you are sending only to me because I am involved and will be taking over’. She insisted that no sales person would appreciate if she started to cc me half way through the process. I can’t help but think that sales people aim to please and if they know I will be taking over would love for me to have their email so I could hire them again instead of finding someone else.

Please, if ANYONE knows the reason it is wrong to give another person on the committee the sales persons contact info, please tell me

Angie

 

[EasterJoy]

If you can look up Bob, you might want to ask him to have some coffee, to ask him some questions about the committee he used to be on…ideas he used to have, that kind of thing.

Then, when you get him, alone, you can say, “So. I’m new around here. I don’t know anybody. Tell me about Sally.” Then listen to what someone who has had to work with her on that committee can tell you. I think you’ll learn a lot.

My guess is that Sally is trying to hide how totally unable she is to give you the information you want and that she’s got mixed emotions about letting go of this committee. She’s probably finding out that handing over the chairmanship of a committee is about ten times the work as actually running it (particularly if you have been running it badly!!) and that cleaning up all the messes that are going to make her look bad and to put bolts on all the wheels that are otherwise going to come off any minute is a lot more work than she bargained for. Just a guess, but I think she wished she didn’t have to be the head of this committee, and now she may be regretting that she got her wish!!

Hang in there, and be very glad that at least she is not staying on. Whatever disasters she has in store for you will clear up… in a year or two.

(OK, yes, I sometimes have a rather sick sense of humor. )

 

[Anglewannabe]

If you can look up Bob, you might want to ask him to have some coffee, to ask him some questions about the committee he used to be on…ideas he used to have, that kind of thing.

Then, when you get him, alone, you can say, “So. I’m new around here. I don’t know anybody. Tell me about Sally.” Then listen to what someone who has had to work with her on that committee can tell you. I think you’ll learn a lot.

My guess is that Sally is trying to hide how totally unable she is to give you the information you want and that she’s got mixed emotions about letting go of this committee. She’s probably finding out that handing over the chairmanship of a committee is about ten times the work as actually running it (particularly if you have been running it badly!!) and that cleaning up all the messes that are going to make her look bad and to put bolts on all the wheels that are otherwise going to come off any minute is a lot more work than she bargained for. Just a guess, but I think she wished she didn’t have to be the head of this committee, and now she may be regretting that she got her wish!!

Hang in there, and be very glad that at least she is not staying on. Whatever disasters she has in store for you will clear up… in a year or two.

(OK, yes, I sometimes have a rather sick sense of humor. )

Well, first, I might have seen Bob from afar a couple of years ago but I honestly don’t even know what he looks like. And if Bob did quit because of her, I doubt he will even want to think of her at this point.

I actually think most people on that committee find her hard to work with and argumentative. After all Sally is the one who is always saying ‘When Mary first met me she did not like me because I wanted to do XYZ’. I also however suspect that most people on the committee would not gossip about her because after all, they all want to run a professional organization.

And no, your sense of humour is NOT sick. It is actually quite true. Next year I will be in charge. I am trying to minimize my work. IE if I have all the vendors contacts in a list, I will not have to look for them one by one. However, I am starting to think that I will have to look them up one by one because of Sally’s refusal to do it. My suspicion is Sally is controlling and is having trouble letting go of the reins. I could go one about her bad work habits and what I suspect but that frankly would not do me any good (as tempted as I am to do that:

 

[CaptFun]

You know, I know someone like Sally, and what she really needs is someone to say, “No, Sally.” She can handle it, and she may even appreciate it.

“No, Sally…focus! Meeting date. We need to set one.”

“No, Sally, I mean I need to go now. Remember at the beginning of the meetings, I said 55 minutes, not 60, and not 65? It’s been 56 minutes. I’m going now. We’re going to have to figure out ________ at another time.” Grab the coat, grab the keys, wave and smile but do not stop walking towards transportation (or your next appointment, even if it is an appointment for private time with your own office) for anything!

I don’t think she has separation issues. I think she is a super extrovert with a motor brain and a motor mouth that hardly know how to idle, let alone turn off, and the chances are that if you are a firm set of brakes in her life, she’ll not take offense. You can be blunt with her, and you can do it without being rude. Just be direct and insistent. You can even be cheerful and show some little bit of affection for her foibles…provided she lets you dodge them! Even if she doesn’t like it, well, everyone else in meetings with her sure won’t mind! They’ll probably all kiss your feet on the ride down the elevator.

It doesn’t even have to be this confrontational if one sets it up … as had been suggested.

At 9 pm, just quietly get up to go. If Sally remarks, turn, smile, and say softly " … it’s that thing I told you about …" AS you are leaving. Look pleasant the whole time … but just leave. And don’t hear anything after you speak, be GONE.

If the next day she remarks about it … one could say "I don’t understand. I told you I had to go at 9 pm and you agreed. Anything involving me could have been settled by then.

If she doesn’t change her attitude … THEN softly at first … confront her and tell her how it will be in the future. Then END by saying something nice to her as a good Christian should. Not so nice that it changes the business just accomplished - but nice enough
to emphasize a “we’re just different you and I, but we can work this out …” no villain
situation.

And putting on some emotional armor can be coupled with some more of the personal
challenge this person was already doing. < Trying to BE more social, against her own grain. Maybe just accepting a night is going to be long and unpleasant and offering it up
to God would reap benefits. Then Sally might not seem so bad - if you are prepared for much worse and not grinding teeth at the next little thing she does.

Good luck to the OP. And this post was good advice. JUST in case it can be handled more delicately, I suggested these. But GO to the direct stuff if you need to.

Maybe keep something like this (below) to present to her at the proper time (NOT as a confrontation but as a “what do you think of this”). Perhaps prefaced with … “our meetings have been running long and not being complete. I was thinking of sharing this with the others. Read it and tell me if you think I should.” And with this kind of person, look as if you are on your way somewhere important but had to stop by for a second.

wikihow.com/Tell-if-You-Talk-Too-Much

 

[EasterJoy]

Well, first, I might have seen Bob from afar a couple of years ago but I honestly don’t even know what he looks like. And if Bob did quit because of her, I doubt he will even want to think of her at this point.

I actually think most people on that committee find her hard to work with and argumentative. After all Sally is the one who is always saying ‘When Mary first met me she did not like me because I wanted to do XYZ’. I also however suspect that most people on the committee would not gossip about her because after all, they all want to run a professional organization.

And no, your sense of humour is NOT sick. It is actually quite true. Next year I will be in charge. I am trying to minimize my work. IE if I have all the vendors contacts in a list, I will not have to look for them one by one. However, I am starting to think that I will have to look them up one by one because of Sally’s refusal to do it. My suspicion is Sally is controlling and is having trouble letting go of the reins. I could go one about her bad work habits and what I suspect but that frankly would not do me any good (as tempted as I am to do that:

Well, it is kind of sick to see you with this mess on your lap and saying, oh, hey you can get this cleaned up…in a year or two. That’s kind of black humor, since it isn’t my mess to clean up!

I’m guessing Sally is living proof that the Peter Principle is not dead.
(There’s my sick sense of humor again.)