Boundaries with parents

[AClaire11]

Read “Boundaries” It saved my life with my overbearing parents.
Remember, “no” can be the hardest word to say but it is well-worth learning.

I’d recommend reading the book “Toxic Parents,” as well. Start saying no and prepare for things to escalate before they get better. In my experience, parents are rarely able to admit their behavior is abusive because they do everything “out of love.” It’s important to remember that someone can truly love you, but STILL be abusive. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

 

[Maine52]

I’d recommend reading the book “Toxic Parents,” as well. Start saying no and prepare for things to escalate before they get better. In my experience, parents are rarely able to admit their behavior is abusive because they do everything “out of love.” It’s important to remember that someone can truly love you, but STILL be abusive. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

This is what makes it hard. And sad. They DO love me and there is a lot of good about our relationship, and I really don’t think they know what they are doing. But they ARE abusive.

Thanks for the book recommendations. I’ll look into them.

 

[Maine52]

BTW, if your mom is a busybody who makes a nuisance of herself by telling everyone else how they could be running their lives better, it wouldn’t be any wonder if it drove your dad nuts. He may turn out to be an ally, as you re-draw your boundaries. The main thing to remember is that if your parents’ relationship changes because they no longer have the distraction of butting into your life, that doesn’t make those changes any of your doing. If living their lives vicariously through you was their plan for avoiding their own relationship problems, that was a very short-sighted plan and a rather self-centered one, too. Take-home message: If you draw a boundary to give yourself more privacy and their relationship goes south, it is not your fault. If they have been doing that to you, it was unfair to you and needed to stop. Fixing any damage is their work, not yours.

Thanks for all your posts, Easter Joy. I always appreciate your wisdom. My mom isn’t this way. She’s truly just obsessed with me and my life. And she doesn’t give unwanted advice, she just needs to know everything and manipulate me into doing what she wants, though I don’t think she realizes she’s doing it. Thanks for your insights.

 

[MPellegrini]

Hi. Is anyone able to tell me the name of the author of ‘Boundaries’? There are a couple of titles with that name.

Thanks!

 

[Groo]

Would you feel comfortable scheduling your calls? That way you are not saying ‘no’, but you are not at their beck and call either. It is a bit formal, but you could say the structure helps reduce your stress level. Then schedule maybe 3 times a week, or whatever is manageable for you.

I did this at my job, which is admittedly not quite the same thing, but it helped keep me from being interrupted by stupid questions every few minutes. Now I schedule weekly time for a big batch of stupid questions all at once.

 

[hipchicagomom]

Hi! I’m coming out of lurkdom (finally lol) to reply to you because your situation sounds similar to what I went through, and still am going through to some extent.

Boundaries is by Cloud and Townsend; I have it and it’s a pretty good book.

Another excellent book is called What’s Normal by John and Linda Friel. This book IMO, is better than Boundaries, as it specifically address issues caused by growing up with a dysfunctional family; issues that still bleed into your adult life. Boundaries is a good book, don’t get me wrong, but it’s written a little bit more for someone who didn’t grow up with parents like ours; someone who maybe just needs a little bit of help from getting burned out by life’s demands. It goes over how to have boundaries in your life in a general sense. What’s Normal will help address specific issues of WHY you’re responding a certain way to your parents and how to fix it AND be ok with the changes. It also offers more encouragement for the reader because honestly, coming out of the fog of family dysfunction is very, very difficult. It’s written in a normal way; you don’t need to be a Rhodes scholar to get through it. And you will refer to it over and over again.

Also, finding a good therapist is worth it’s weight in gold.

It’s a long hard road, but absolutely worth it. One foot in front of the other! Lots of prayers for you!

 

[EasterJoy]

Thanks for all your posts, Easter Joy. I always appreciate your wisdom. My mom isn’t this way. She’s truly just obsessed with me and my life. And she doesn’t give unwanted advice, she just needs to know everything and manipulate me into doing what she wants, though I don’t think she realizes she’s doing it. Thanks for your insights.

Ah, she is just an un-amended helicopter parent! Now I see!

My mom was very sweet, I would not have called her or my dad controlling at all, but when I picked out things she would not have picked out, she’d inevitably say, “You don’t want that.” (Oh, really? Now that I’m over 25 and living on my own in a different state, perhaps you might say, “Are you sure you want that?” )

I don’t think my mom realized she was doing it, either! She just could not reconcile herself to the idea that her sensible daughter might not think in the same sensible way she did!

Sometimes these are habits that a parent gets into during a son or daughter’s childhood, and they fail to see that the habit needs to change because adulthood has arrived for the “child”. If your mom has a good will, she can almost certainly be guided over to the new normal without any ill will. It will take a long time to get her out of the “helicopter” rut, but I think she’ll go for it. Keep a sense of humor, because pointing out how silly it is for her to still be hovering affectionately around the head of a grown woman as if she were still a little girl navigating her first week of kindergarten is probably the best way to go. It sort of lets you express gratitude for her care over the years at the same time you’re saying, “Enough already. Look, I’m grown up! You got me here! I have my own wings, now! I passed flight school! Time to set down the helicopter, Mom!!”

 

[Maine52]

Ah, she is just an un-amended helicopter parent! Now I see!

My mom was very sweet, I would not have called her or my dad controlling at all, but when I picked out things she would not have picked out, she’d inevitably say, “You don’t want that.” (Oh, really? Now that I’m over 25 and living on my own in a different state, perhaps you might say, “Are you sure you want that?” )

I don’t think my mom realized she was doing it, either! She just could not reconcile herself to the idea that her sensible daughter might not think in the same sensible way she did!

Sometimes these are habits that a parent gets into during a son or daughter’s childhood, and they fail to see that the habit needs to change because adulthood has arrived for the “child”. If your mom has a good will, she can almost certainly be guided over to the new normal without any ill will. It will take a long time to get her out of the “helicopter” rut, but I think she’ll go for it. Keep a sense of humor, because pointing out how silly it is for her to still be hovering affectionately around the head of a grown woman as if she were still a little girl navigating her first week of kindergarten is probably the best way to go. It sort of lets you express gratitude for her care over the years at the same time you’re saying, “Enough already. Look, I’m grown up! You got me here! I have my own wings, now! I passed flight school! Time to set down the helicopter, Mom!!”

I’m going to edit what I said before. She doesn’t give unwanted advice…very often. When she does occasionally, it is in the form of a suggestion which is given very subtly. If I do what I think I should do instead of what she says and things turn out badly, then she says… “Let me see, didn’t someone tell you to do it the other way? Hmmmm…who was that?” Snicker, snicker.

For DD’s first birthday, she took over planning the entire party. She kept saying “What can I do to help.” I would answer with, “It’s still a ways off and I’m very busy with other things right now. I will make a plan and then get back to you with what you can do to help.” In the meantime, she shopped for supplies and looked into venues for the party, saying she was doing it to help. She would ask, “Would you like this, this, and this?” for DD’s party? I basically just told her what she wanted to hear…which is, “Sure, I’d like that.” So she basically planned the whole thing. She later apologized for this and has done better, but it still made me mad. I’m determined to not let that happen again.

She also takes credit for things I do for DD. For example, I showed DD how to play notes on a xylophone in the right order. When my mother saw her doing it she said…“Now, who showed you how to do that?” (Meaning her.) It’s almost like she wants to be the parent of DD.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m going to edit what I said before. She doesn’t give unwanted advice…very often. When she does occasionally, it is in the form of a suggestion which is given very subtly. If I do what I think I should do instead of what she says and things turn out badly, then she says… “Let me see, didn’t someone tell you to do it the other way? Hmmmm…who was that?” Snicker, snicker…

OK, that’s just rude. Try to use a jovial tone, but call her on that!

“Wop, wop, wop, wop…here comes The Helicopter again!”

“If you don’t want to be here to see me making all my own mistakes, I can arrange for you to be elsewhere, Mother…Well, it obviously upsets you to see me fail. Wouldn’t want to put you through it…OK, then, if you can’t bite your tongue when something goes wrong with me, or at least have the grace to fake some sympathy, then maybe you’re in a bit too close, if you get my meaning.”

 

[EasterJoy]

She also takes credit for things I do for DD. For example, I showed DD how to play notes on a xylophone in the right order. When my mother saw her doing it she said…“Now, who showed you how to do that?” (Meaning her.) It’s almost like she wants to be the parent of DD.

Since you probably bend over backwards to avoid making this particular mistake with your DD, you could handle it this way:

“Mom, give her the credit for what she’s learned to do. If we let her praise whatever help we gave, she’ll have the pleasure of thanking us herself, but she’ll resent it if we praise ourselves for what she accomplishes.”

Even if your mom learns nothing from this interchange, your daughter will!

Whatever you decide to do under the circumstances, remember this axiom:* When you talk about your child to others, always keep in mind that your child is probably the only one listening who will remember a single thing you say!*

 

[Maine52]

Thank you again, Easter Joy.

One more question, I guess. How does one deal with the…“Well, we provided for you and took care of you for 18 years and paid for your college education and now you are shutting us out…”

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you again, Easter Joy.

One more question, I guess. How does one deal with the…“Well, we provided for you and took care of you for 18 years and paid for your college education and now you are shutting us out…”

“Shutting you out? Mom, you are hilarious. What I’m suggesting is more along the lines of letting me use the bathroom without supervision. Nobody’s mother wants as much detail as you do. Admit it: You are a total helicopter!”

 

[Xantippe]

Maine52 said:

“Well, we provided for you and took care of you for 18 years and paid for your college education and now you are shutting us out…”

EasterJoy’s jocular response is probably the best for actual use.

Here’s one for you to think, if not use. “I’m repaying you for all of that by taking care of my kids for 18 years and paying for their college–that’s how that works, mom–you pay it forward by taking care of the next generation.”

Also, who knows what she might or might not need (rather than just want) in her old age? She shouldn’t attempt to collect everything now, because she may need you more later. I wouldn’t mention that to her, but it may help you to realize that you aren’t committing an injustice.

Best wishes!

 

[Maine52]

Well, I’ve been reading the book Boundaries, and a lot more things are making sense to me. I understand how my parents’ actions affected me and why I have the mental health issues I have.

I really just need some support. Anyone I’ve ever asked for help has just said, “Just focus on all the good they’ve done for you. Be grateful you had food on the table and your college paid for. Don’t be an ungrateful child.” Not necessarily in those words…but that’s what they meant. Even my therapist said something along the lines of, “Well, parenting doesn’t come with a manual so you have to cut them some slack…”

I don’t expect them to be perfect, but I don’t think they should be let off the hook because “parenting doesn’t come with a manual.” I AM grateful for everything they’ve done, but it doesn’t reverse all the pain they’ve caused. I just need someone to understand and support me. I was hoping maybe I could find that here. I know I’m taking a risk by posting all this, and I’m prepared to get blasted with judgement and more of the "just get over it " comments. But I really do just need some support.

 

[hipchicagomom]

Well, I’ve been reading the book Boundaries, and a lot more things are making sense to me. I understand how my parents’ actions affected me and why I have the mental health issues I have.

I really just need some support. Anyone I’ve ever asked for help has just said, “Just focus on all the good they’ve done for you. Be grateful you had food on the table and your college paid for. Don’t be an ungrateful child.” Not necessarily in those words…but that’s what they meant. Even my therapist said something along the lines of, “Well, parenting doesn’t come with a manual so you have to cut them some slack…”

I don’t expect them to be perfect, but I don’t think they should be let off the hook because “parenting doesn’t come with a manual.” I AM grateful for everything they’ve done, but it doesn’t reverse all the pain they’ve caused. I just need someone to understand and support me. I was hoping maybe I could find that here. I know I’m taking a risk by posting all this, and I’m prepared to get blasted with judgement and more of the "just get over it " comments. But I really do just need some support.

Yikes, your therapist sounds like he/she needs a spanking lol. Therapy is not court; we dont have to prove anything to anyone, there is no right or wrong. You DONT have to cut anyone any “slack” while you’re dealing with your feelings, especially when it’s affected your emotional and mental health. Cutting them slack just puts you on the back burner…and isn’t the point of therapy to deal with YOU?!

/rant.

Sorry. I had a T like that and it drove me nuts when he would say mindless junk like that. I will say though, that confronting my T when he would say “the wrong thing” was incredibly therapeutic. I learned to not just accept what was doled out to me; I learned that it’s ok to tell someone they hurt me and to, in a way, set that boundary for how I wanted to be treated. Even if not honored, it was respected. My T was incredibly apologetic though, and told me he didn’t think before he spoke. He was proud of me for being honest with how I felt about what he said.

You’re perfectly justified to feel the way you do. It’s hard dealing with the baggage that we carry from our childhood. Kind of cliche, but very very true unfortunately. It’s ok to love your parents but need space to deal. But because you love them and appreciate them does NOT negate the fact that you’re dealing with a heavy emotional burden. It’s ok to feel both love and frustration for them.

I know single handedly how hard it is! It takes time (LOTS!) but hopefully you know at least one person tonight supports you.

 

[Maine52]

Well, I’m taking a baby step forward as now my parents and I only Skype 6 out of 7 days. DH and I have a date night once a week, and that is the day I don’t Skype with them because it doesn’t work for my schedule or theirs. Cutting out one day may not seem like a big deal, but to me it is. Baby steps…baby steps.

When we do talk, though, it is the same routine with my mother. She has to know every detail of every minute of every day. What did you have for breakfast, what did you have for lunch, what did you have for dinner, what did you do this morning, what did you do the rest of the evening after we talked last night, what are you going to do tomorrow, what did you do yesterday (the date night)… She’s proud of herself that she doesn’t ask about DH’s and my sex life. But honestly she knows about everything else.

I have nothing that is my own. She is in every corner of my life. And what bothers me is not so much the questions. It is her attitude. It’s been this way ever since I was a child, and I think I’m just now realizing why it bothers me. She thinks she owns me. I really think that’s the problem. She thinks that because she is my mother, she has a right to anything and everything to do with me. She projects a vibe that I can’t do anything or have anything without her approval, or at least without her knowing about it. I’m not my own person - I am hers. I can’t think for myself or do anything for myself. If I do something without her knowledge or without her approval and it goes badly, she will hold it over me forever, hence the power she has over me. So I just have to think the way she does and do what she approves of in order to avoid the risk of her holding it over me. It’s suffocating.

She is my mother, and I could never not love her. But I have to admit I am beginning to lose the affection I have for her. Because of the way things are I feel like it is an all-or-nothing situation. I either have to cut all ties or have her completely in my life. There is no middle ground, and that hurts, because it would really be bad to cut all ties.

I’m not looking for advice. Honestly I know what I have to do. It just feels good to get all this out - more so than therapy, as my therapist isn’t all that great. Thanks for listening and letting me vent. If anyone has insights, I’d be open to it. Thanks.

 

[newf]

Good job on taking the baby step with the Skype. I know it’s hard, but you are heading in the right direction.

Think about your daughter. And think about how you want to handle your mom for her. As she grows, you want her to see you as a confident woman in control of her own life, not someone who is being dominated by grandma.

Don’t let your mom treat your daughter the way she treats you. Sometimes we let our parents do wrong things to us but once they try it on our kids, we are able to stand up and say STOP. My mom did a lot of ‘over the line’ things. She was very difficult and still is, but to quote the Rolling Stones “the change has come she’s under MY thumb”. But it took a while and when I was in my 30’s it was very difficult. So I get where you are coming from. I just want to encourage you to keep taking the baby steps.

Also, you are not responsible for your mom’s happiness. It is very sick for her to call you daily and pry into your world. Taking space from her would probably be a very healthy thing. You need to work on the guilt you feel, it’s not rational. You aren’t doing anything wrong, so you don’t need to feel guilty. Living your own life in a way that doesn’t please your mom is not wrong. I used to feel the same guilt, so I understand. I just want you to know it is possible to overcome it.

One thing that used to help me was when my mom would do some crazy thing to me, I would ask myself, would it be okay for her treat my daughter that way? And for some reason it was easier for me to clearly see how my daughter should be treated than how I should be treated. If I knew it was wrong for my daughter, then I knew it was wrong for me to be treated that way, too, and I would put a stop to it. Sometimes when we’ve lived in this crazy situation for so long, it is hard to see what is ‘normal’.

Try and see if you can get your Skype visits shortened by another day. Keep your momentum going!

 

[Musician]

Good for you. Take the baby steps and realize how overwhelming it is to have to live up to those expectations. It is literally impossible to fulfill that kind of obligation. It can’t be done. Be good to yourself.

 

[Et_Cetera]

Thanks.

I guess what I am asking, though, is - is requesting all these details a “normal” way to behave?

Nooooo. It sounds like your mom is trying to live vicariously through you. It would be nice if she could find something like a hobby that makes her happy.