Bow during the creed

[theweeper]

are we or are we not supposed to bow during the creed? during “by the power of the Holy Spirit he ws born of the virgin Mary, and became man.” why am i the only one?

 

[Micki]

Yes, we are and we, sometimes the priest and deacon, but rarely do we see anyone else. Why–because no one instructs the congregation to bow. How much effort would it take to remind the congregation about bowing??

I dont’ understand this.

Micki

 

[Brendan]

Yes, we are supposed to make a profound bow ( bow from the waist) during the Creed.

GIRM 137

1. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. above, no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.

At the Feast of the Annunciation, at at Christmas, we genuflect at instead of bowing, in recognition of the particular relationship those Feasts have with the Incarnation.

If no one else in your parish is bowing at the correct times, ask your pastor why not.

 

[Lucania]

Yes. We are supposed to bow at that time. The Missalette even says to do so . The majority, I noticed at my Church makes a bow, but at my previous Church, hardly anyone did. It was in their Missalette, too:shrug: .

 

[hilde_the_dog]

We bow. Most people at mass do. A couple years ago the pastor instructed everybody to do so. And the priests and deacon also bow.

 

[pprimeau1976]

Our parish is pretty good about bowing. Most of the parishioners bow. It helps that our pastor bows and the choir bows as well. Now all we need to do is to get everyone on board with the word change of the creed.

We are changing it to “became incarnate” of the Virgin Mary rather than “was born” of the Virgin Mary.

 

[Apryl]

We are changing it to “became incarnate” of the Virgin Mary rather than “was born” of the Virgin Mary.

Who is this ‘we’, and how does one get the authority to make such a change?

Aren’t we all supposed to do the same thing?

Yes, it’s in the missals, the missalettes, but people tend to ‘do what they want to do’, sadly.

There are a number of things they SHOULDN’T do, but if you get the right (or maybe, more correctly, ‘wrong’ person to do the wrong thing just once, it’s followed. But for some reason, people need to be held by the hand to do correctly.

We need to be taught. And when we are taught things, we need to be obedient and follow the teachings.

The priest can say ‘you should bow’, but if a person chooses not to, they won’t. If the crowd gets to another church where the MEMBERS are not bowing, it’s a good chance they won’t either.

As humans, we tend to flow like salmon.

(I need coffee, I think, but I’m being truthful)

 

[MH84]

I know that there is the recommendation to bow at this time, but I have never seen anyone do so in Australia.

 

[pprimeau1976]

Who is this ‘we’, and how does one get the authority to make such a change?

I said “we” loosely. I say we as a member of the parish. But, to be more exact, the “we” is probably either the pastor and/or the worship commission of my parish.

From what I understand, the wording is being changed in accordance to the number of changes that are coming down the line with regards to the English translation or the Roman Missal. The English translations are supposed to more closely resemble the Latin.

 

[lak611]

I said “we” loosely. I say we as a member of the parish. But, to be more exact, the “we” is probably either the pastor and/or the worship commission of my parish.

From what I understand, the wording is being changed in accordance to the number of changes to the liturgy that make the the English translations correspond more with the Latin. The problem is, I have no idea if these should be implemented yet or not.

From what I’ve heard, the changes are due in 2008 or 2009. Another change will be “I believe” rather than “We believe”, which makes more sense, actually. I can state what I believe, but I cannot make the statement about my neighbour. “I believe” also is the proper translation of the Latin.

 

[Apryl]

I know that there is the recommendation to bow at this time, but I have never seen anyone do so in Australia.

You’re not covered by the USCCB, but what does it say in your instructions? What is in your missal/missalettes?

 

[Apryl]

I said “we” loosely. I say we as a member of the parish. But, to be more exact, the “we” is probably either the pastor and/or the worship commission of my parish.

From what I understand, the wording is being changed in accordance to the number of changes that are coming down the line with regards to the English translation or the Roman Missal. The English translations are supposed to more closely resemble the Latin.

Ok… but I still don’t get who has the AUTHORITY to make these changes.

If teh changes are coming from somewhere, where is that ‘where’?

Are you saying that a Pastor and/or Worship Commission of any parish can do this?

 

[TheDoctor]

Hi all. Yes, we are supposed to bow (not just a head bob, but a “profound bow” as the GIRM points out).

Here is a neat little pamphlet that explains bowing and genuflecting form the diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend:
www.diocesefwsb.org/WORSHIP/pdf%20files/Posture%20brochure.pdf

The OP asks “why am I the only one”? Maybe our fellow brothers and sisters don’t know (we need to teach them), are following the crowd (we need to model the proper rubrics for them) or know and don’t care (we need to pray for them).

For the first case, perhaps you could speak to your pastor about what you have seen and ask about putting a small “Q&A” section in the parish bulletin to address this and other issues? For the second case, YOU remain strong and continue to do all that the Church asks us to do during the Mass. Maybe God is sending someone to sit next to you this Sunday who needs to see it. As for the last case, I will pray with you that the Spirit will touch their hearts.

 

[pprimeau1976]

Ok… but I still don’t get who has the AUTHORITY to make these changes.

If teh changes are coming from somewhere, where is that ‘where’?

Are you saying that a Pastor and/or Worship Commission of any parish can do this?

The authority ultimately is with the USCCB with the approval of the Holy Father. I am trying to dig up some info on the changes and when they need to happen. Here is a link to a USCCB newsletter regarding some of the changes that are happening.

usccb.org/liturgy/innews/MayJune2006.pdf

My parish does not use misallettes, they print their own worship aids. So, they are implementing these changes slowly rather than changing everything at once.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

My parish does not use misallettes, they print their own worship aids. So, they are implementing these changes slowly rather than changing everything at once.

Yes the changes are coming – eventually – but until they do, your parish doesn’t have the authority to make up its own version of the Mass.

 

[lak611]

The authority ultimately is with the USCCB with the approval of the Holy Father. I am trying to dig up some info on the changes and when they need to happen. Here is a link to a USCCB newsletter regarding some of the changes that are happening.

usccb.org/liturgy/innews/MayJune2006.pdf

My parish does not use misallettes, they print their own worship aids. So, they are implementing these changes slowly rather than changing everything at once.

Here is another change that is forthcoming.

The Bishops’ Conferences of those countries where the formula “for all” or its equivalent is currently in use are therefore
requested to undertake the necessary catechesis of the faithful on this matter in the next one or two years to prepare them
for the introduction of a precise vernacular translation of the formula pro multis (e.g., “for many,” “per molti,” etc.) in
the next translation of the Roman Missal that the Bishops and the Holy See will approve for use in their country.
With the expression of my high esteem and respect, I remain, Your Eminence /Your Excellency,
Devotedly Yours in Christ,
Francis Cardinal Arinze, Prefect

The authorities making the changes are the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

 

[StephanieC]

Here’s CAF Ask an Apologist answer to this question:
Bow during Creed?

Funny, I don’t really know who in my parish bows and who doesn’t, since I’m bowing and therefore don’t have my eyes up!

 

[lak611]

Hi all. Yes, we are supposed to bow (not just a head bob, but a “profound bow” as the GIRM points out).

I usually cannot bow as profoundly as I would like to because I would bump the person in the pew in front of me with my head. I do always bow, though. It’s easy if I go to a TLM, because instead of bowing, one kneels.

 

[theweeper]

For the first case, perhaps you could speak to your pastor about what you have seen and ask about putting a small “Q&A” section in the parish bulletin to address this and other issues? For the second case, YOU remain strong and continue to do all that the Church asks us to do during the Mass. Maybe God is sending someone to sit next to you this Sunday who needs to see it. As for the last case, I will pray with you that the Spirit will touch their hearts.

yeah right, i’m already a trouble-maker by nature. who wants the newbie coming in and telling everyone how wrong they are. i think i’ll stick to the being an example and praying for them.

Funny, I don’t really know who in my parish bows and who doesn’t, since I’m bowing and therefore don’t have my eyes up!

noted! i guess i shouldn’t be keeping track of who is “doing it right” like me…lol…but really though, i’m still learning everything so i try and just imitate what others are doing. but when i read in the misslette i should bow, i was confused.

 

[japhy]

are we or are we not supposed to bow during the creed? during “by the power of the Holy Spirit he ws born of the virgin Mary, and became man.” why am i the only one?

From the GIRM (w/ US adpatations):
137. The Creed is sung or recited by the priest together with the people (cf. above, no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.
From the IGRM:
137. Symbolum cantatur vel recitatur a sacerdote una cum populo (cf. n. 68), omnibus stantibus. Ad verba Et incarnátus est, etc. omnes profunde se inclinant; in sollemnitatibus vero Annuntiationis et Nativitatis Domini genua flectunt.
What is a “profound bow”? A bow at the waist of about 30 degrees.

GIRM 275 explains bowing in general terms:
275. A bow signifies reverence and honor shown to the persons themselves or to the signs that represent them. There are two kinds of bows: a bow of the head and a bow of the body.

1. A bow of the head is made when the three Divine Persons are named together and at the names of Jesus, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and of the Saint in whose honor Mass is being celebrated.
2. A bow of the body, that is to say a profound bow, is made to the altar; during the prayers Munda cor meum (Almighty God, cleanse my heart) and In spiritu humilitatis (Lord God, we ask you to receive); in the Creed at the words Et incarnatus est (by the power of the Holy Spirit . . . made man); in the Roman Canon at the words Supplices te rogamus (Almighty God, we pray that your angel). The same kind of bow is made by the deacon when he asks for a blessing before the proclamation of the Gospel. In addition, the priest bows slightly as he speaks the words of the Lord at the consecration.​

We are also required to bow our heads before receiving Communion (GIRM 160):
160. … When receiving Holy Communion, the communicant bows his or her head before the Sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the Body of the Lord from the minister. The consecrated host may be received either on the tongue or in the hand, at the discretion of each communicant. When Holy Communion is received under both kinds, the sign of reverence is also made before receiving the Precious Blood.