Bow or Genuflect at Consecration?

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

My attitude is puzzling?

You do not think a judgemental attitude is puzzling?

or worse?

Certainly you may discuss this very respectfully, if you wish, but to question the belief in the Real Presence as was done here, is a far more serious offence.

Well you are looking at instructions
“Judge not, least you may be judged”
or from the Catechism,

1269 Having become a member of the Church, the person baptized belongs no longer to himself, but to him who died and rose for us.76 From now on, he is called to be subject to others, to serve them in the communion of the Church, and to “obey and submit” to the Church’s leaders,77 holding them in respect and affection.78 Just as Baptism is the source of responsibilities and duties, the baptized person also enjoys rights within the Church: to receive the sacraments, to be nourished with the Word of God and to be sustained by the other spiritual helps of the Church.79

Lux

 

[Brooklyn]

My attitude is puzzling?

You do not think a judgemental attitude is puzzling?

or worse?

Certainly you may discuss this very respectfully, if you wish, but to question the belief in the Real Presence as was done here, is a far more serious offence.

Well you are looking at instructions
“Judge not, least you may be judged”
or from the Catechism,

Lux

This is my last response to you because I think it is starting to get heated. You seem very intent on criticzing me and others who don’t like the fact that priests are not following the rubrics of the Mass and seemingly showing a lack of respect and reverence for the Blessed Sacrament. According to your thinking, we should not even respectfully question what they do. But priests are sinful human beings, just like the laity, and they can be wrong.

You are accusing us of judging. However, it seems you are the one making some rather harsh judgments.

The priest is literally holding our Saviour in his hands in his hands at the time of the consecration. It is not a symbol. Pope John Paul II said that the priest must genuflect at that time to acknowledge the fact and show reverence. I think it is not only right but imperative to question when a priest does not follow the rubrics of the Mass.

God bless you.

Mary

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

According to your thinking, we should not even respectfully question what they do.
Mary

Lux:

Certainly you may discuss this very respectfully, if you wish, but to question the belief in the Real Presence as was done here, is a far more serious offence.

Perhaps you cannot see the forest for the trees.
1Cor 13:13
Lux

 

[timmo]

Hi Lux
I’m not going to be nasty, or judgemental or move to another parish.
You claim to have been an EMHC at one time so you might have some insight that may throw some light on my question, which is:

A catholic priest, having no physical difficulty, obstinately refuses to genuflect before The Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

What do you think might be the reason for this?

tim

 

[sphilomena]

I guess we have to stop beating a dead horse, so this is my last comment. The GIRM is absolutely clear, some priests used to know the requirements, but are now either sloppy or willfully disobedient. The sloppiness has obviously spread as we have seen lay people bow before the tabernacle now. Why is it wrong for us to want reverence and obedience, when it has an impact on the faith of lay people, as in the lex orandi, lex credendi principle?

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi Lux
I’m not going to be nasty, or judgemental or move to another parish.
You claim to have been an EMHC at one time so you might have some insight that may throw some light on my question, which is:

A catholic priest, having no physical difficulty, obstinately refuses to genuflect before The Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

What do you think might be the reason for this?

tim

Hi Tim,

I am still not sure how someone could know the reason why the priest chooses not to genuflect, but even if you do know the reason, the instructions for addressing the abuse are clear, and they do not include speculating on the reason or the belief in the Real Presence on a public forum.

If it is really upsetting, discuss it with the priest and/or write the Bishop. But please “do not incur sin because of your brother”

Lux

 

[timmo]

Hi Lux
I’m new to interacting on threads and maybe i’m making a bad job of it.
Participation in the thread seems to have dwindled and i sincerely apologise if i was the cause of this.
I think the topic is extremely important.
I was going to cease submitting to the thread, but on reflection i thought that might be unwise.

The most suitable way i thought to respond was from the bottom up and i hope this doesn’t cause confusion.

Hi Tim,

I am still not sure how someone could know the reason why the priest chooses not to genuflect, but even if you do know the reason, the instructions for addressing the abuse are clear, and they do not include speculating on the reason or the belief in the Real Presence on a public forum.

If it is really upsetting, discuss it with the priest and/or write the Bishop. But please “do not incur sin because of your brother”

Lux

You said

But please “do not incur sin because of your brother”

i can only find this in Leviticus 19:17

You shall not bear hatred for your brother in your heart. Though you may have to reprove your fellow man, do not incur sin because of him.

Using partial unreferenced quotes, out of context, is very un-Catholic and something we are always warned against.
This refers to hatred – are you serious?

You said

If it is really upsetting, discuss it with the priest and/or write the Bishop.

You seem to infer that this forum is being used to bypass the instructions for dealing with abuses.
I couldn’t disagree with you more. The purpose, for me, is information so that i can best formulate and process my complaint.

You said

and they do not include speculating on the reason or the belief in the Real Presence on a public forum.

I am not speculating. I believe absolutely in the Real Presence.
It is the actions of some priests that gave rise to this thread. The actions of these priests is causing great pain and sorrow in the hearts of many of the faithful. It may be difficult for some people to reconcile a priest’s actions with his belief in the Real Presence – I’m certainly finding it difficult.

You said

but even if you do know the reason

I don’t.
I do have what i believe to be a reasonable suspicion and i sincerely hope i’m wrong

you said

I am still not sure how someone could know the reason why the priest chooses not to genuflect,

I’m not sure if we could ever fully know why someone does or doesn’t do something.
However, we are in no doubt as to **The Reason **why he should.

I was hoping to get some more information and feedback from this thread but it appears to me that the thread has been crippled.
You won’t respond substantially to the question, you won’t speculate or have an opinion and you stated, in Post 35, -

I personally would do nothing

Come on Lux. A little more Lux and less tenebrae might be in order.

in Truth and Charity
tim

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

Hi Tim,

I am sorry that you did not find my responses helpful. Have you read the entire thread?

Earlier in the thread, speculation was made that the fact a priest did not genuflect was an indication of failure to believe in the real presence. This is a horrible speculation, and something that should ot even be brought up on a public forum. My comment on that was concerning that speculation, which I don’t think you posted.

Also there were posts about concelebrating priests (who are to bow, not genuflect), and my statement of that instruction was answered with something about bad example and confusing children.

I personally will trust a priest concerning his ability to kneel (there is no age qualification for knee problems, and many people can walk quite well, but cannot kneel or genuflect)

If you or anyone else wish to question a priest, I did say that was your choice, but must be done in a very respectful manner and I also posted many references as to the instructions for addressing a complaint
from Redemptionis Sacramentum

1. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

1. In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favoritism.

1. Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.290 It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

Hope this helps.

Lux

 

[timmo]

Lux Lux Lux

i had two fried eggs for my breakfast

tim