Bowing before the Virgin Mary

[eo_chibears]

Really? I’d love to see your sources. I bow to my priest all of the time when I’m serving Mass, and I certainly aren’t worshiping him.

OP was not talking about a Priest. I didn’t site sources, I just based it off of what I have seen. I don’t see people bow to Mary, she is not God.

 

[TheMc]

OP was not talking about a Priest. I didn’t site sources, I just based it off of what I have seen. I don’t see people bow to Mary, she is not God.

No, but the point is that Mary is a saint and mother of God, and the priest is not. If I can do it to the priest, then I should be able to do it to Mary.

 

[DevotedChild]

The bow during the creed is to honor the mystery of the incarnation not the Blessed Mother.

M

That isn’t how the priest explained it to me, but I understand what you are saying. Thanks for explaining.

 

[thistle]

That isn’t how the priest explained it to me, but I understand what you are saying. Thanks for explaining.

GIRM:

1. The Symbol or Creed is sung or recited by the Priest together with the people (cf. no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est, etc. (and by the Holy Spirit . . . and became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Really? I’d love to see your sources. I bow to my priest all of the time when I’m serving Mass, and I certainly aren’t worshiping him.

Yeah. Even in my OF parish, people still bow to the priest.

 

[YoungTradCath]

GIRM:

1. The Symbol or Creed is sung or recited by the Priest together with the people (cf. no. 68) with everyone standing. At the words et incarnatus est, etc. (and by the Holy Spirit . . . and became man) all make a profound bow; but on the Solemnities of the Annunciation and of the Nativity of the Lord, all genuflect.

Do people actually remember to genuflect on these days?

 

[cheese_puff]

I responded the way I did which is obviously MY opinion.

My reasoning for my response has to do directly with what the poster, thistle said; “there is no presence.”

If there is no presence then it is bowing to a statue. The way I read it, the OP wasn’t suggesting a head bow, as in prayer, that I do all the time, but rather, a bow.

I go back to the commandments as my guidence and I am told not to worship or bow to any statues or images. So, I don’t.
I WILL bow to the Eucherist without hesitation, because that is Jesus, not his picture or a statue.

I adore our Blessed Mother and have nothing but deep reverence for her and if she were to apear to me I’m sure I would be the first to fall on the ground!! … but, that wouldn’t be her statue.

I hope I cleared up the reason for my initial post.

God Bless,
cheese

 

[mlldrl]

Do people actually remember to genuflect on these days?

Some do, others don’t. I’m lucky, my paster makes a point to reinforce these things.

M

 

[Jayne_L]

Do people actually remember to genuflect on these days?

They do in my church - which BTW is just your standard Sunday mass. Nothing EF or anything fancy.

RE: The topic of the thread - all I know is that what I see at the Cathedral. We have a statue of Mary with kneelers in front of it. Many people pray there. When I do so, I am not worshipping Mary, but being in that position helps me to focus on my prayer. I see it as similiar to touching a statue when you are walking past and saying a quick prayer. The statue isn’t magical so we don’t need to touch it but we’re physical people and the physical act helps us. Same goes for bowing/kneeling before a statue of Mary.

 

[drforjc]

Many churches, shrines, cathedrals, etc. have prie-dieus for Marian statues, images, etc. I would think the Church would object if there were anything wrong with that.

 

[paperwight66]

Many churches, shrines, cathedrals, etc. have prie-dieus for Marian statues, images, etc. I would think the Church would object if there were anything wrong with that.

Umm… well, providing something for people to kneel on while they pray isn’t the same as encouraging them to bow to a statue, really, is it.

 

[drforjc]

Umm… well, providing something for people to kneel on while they pray isn’t the same as encouraging them to bow to a statue, really, is it.

Given the fact that it is placed directly in front of a Marian shrine or statue, I would say it is exactly that.

 

[Brendan]

Subjects have traditionally bowed before their Queens, the British still do it. I doubt that a single Englishman thinks that Elizabeth II is a divine person, rather, they do it as a traditional sign of respect.

Mary is our Queen, we are her subjects. We may, and should bow before her, or her image, as a sign of respect due one’s Queen.

 

[cheese_puff]

Subjects have traditionally bowed before their Queens, the British still do it. I doubt that a single Englishman thinks that Elizabeth II is a divine person, rather, they do it as a traditional sign of respect.

Mary is our Queen, we are her subjects. We may, and should bow before her, or her image, as a sign of respect due one’s Queen.

While you do have a point that we do bow to the Queen of England, we don’t bow to her images or statues.

 

[Bearontherun]

We can bow to show reverence to sacred objects. This is not the same as worshipping.

In the case of the alter (which symbolizes Christ), we are to make a profound bow toward it as a sign of reverence (rather than genuflecting) when the tabernacle is not lit.

In the same way, we can show reverence (not worship) to statues of Mary by bowing.

IMHO this is kind of like kissing a cross, or the bible. We do not worship it, but show respect to it for what it is/represents.

That is how understand it anyhow.

Peace.

 

[mlldrl]

Gosh, I’ve kissed a picture of my wife when I’m away from home for business. Did I violate the 10 commandments?

M

 

[TheMc]

I think this is a very relevant section from GIRM no. 275:

A bow signifies reverence and honor shown to the persons themselves or to the signs that represent them.

Does this help?

 

[Good_Fella]

I responded the way I did which is obviously MY opinion.

My reasoning for my response has to do directly with what the poster, thistle said; “there is no presence.”

If there is no presence then it is bowing to a statue. The way I read it, the OP wasn’t suggesting a head bow, as in prayer, that I do all the time, but rather, a bow.

I go back to the commandments as my guidence and I am told not to worship or bow to any statues or images. So, I don’t.
I WILL bow to the Eucherist without hesitation, because that is Jesus, not his picture or a statue.

The OT commandments are against bowing before idols that represent false gods. It’s true that Mary isn’t substantially present in any statue or image of her, but she is spiritually present when invoked. So when one bows ‘before’ a statue or image of Mary, he is bowing ‘to’ Mary, not the statue or image that represents her.

“Even if we make images of pious men, it is not that we might adore them as gods, but that when we see them we might be prompted to imitate them.”
St. Cyril of Alexandria

"Anathemas concerning holy images

"If anyone does not confess that Christ our God can be represented in his humanity, let him be anathema.
"If anyone does not accept representation in art of evangelical scenes, let him be anathema.
"If anyone does not salute such representations as standing for the Lord and his saints, let him be anathema.
“If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema.”
Second Council of Nicea (A.D. 787)

PAX
:heaven:

 

[anonymousdollz]

In the time of King David the queen was the mother of the king known as the Gibirah. when you showed the queen honor you were ultimately showing honor to the king. Mary has been given to us as our mother. One of the ten commandments is Honor your mother and father. Therefor, by honoring Mary (our mother!) we are ultimAtely not only thanking her for giving birth to Jesus and honoring her as our mother, but ultimately we are honoring God.