Bowing instead of kneeling?

[TennMark38016]

I have begun attending another parish (we moved) and I’m a new Catholic curious about this. I have noticed that many people quickly bow before sitting at their pew. At first I thought it was just older people with back/knee problems but young folks do it also. Is this acceptable? I was taught at RCIA that when we enter the sanctuary we should always genuflect and the knee should touch the floor.

I hope I’m not being too big of a stickler with this question. Thanks and God bless.

 

[Marquette]

I’m in RCAI and the priest explained that in a church where the host is kept in the front of the sanctuary, you should genuflect, but if it is kept in a side chapel or whatever, you can bow, because of the crucifex at the front. (I think I have this right.)

My husband was raised Catholic but didn’t go for over 20 years as he was going with me to a protestant church, but he is now going back and since he grew up genuflecting, he does that. I notice people doing both in the Catholic church were we now go.

 

[Tedster]

Marquette:

but if it is kept in a side chapel

Maybe he should also explain that this is a no no. The tabernacle should be in the sanctuary directly behind the altar (from our point of view). If the tabernacle is not in the sanctuary , then you would NOT geneflect (and I’m not sure you would even bow), as this is an act of adoration reserved for God and He is not there to adore!

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

TennMark38016:

I have begun attending another parish (we moved) and I’m a new Catholic curious about this. I have noticed that many people quickly bow before sitting at their pew. At first I thought it was just older people with back/knee problems but young folks do it also. Is this acceptable? I was taught at RCIA that when we enter the sanctuary we should always genuflect and the knee should touch the floor.

I hope I’m not being too big of a stickler with this question. Thanks and God bless.

When the tabernacle is present in the space you are in and the sanctuary lamp is burning. Even though the tabernacle may not be front and center. You are required (if you are able) to genuflect towards the tabernacle. If no tabernacle is present then you bow to the altar or crucifix.

If the tabernacle is present but behind you at the back of the church? Then you turn around and genuflect towards the tabernacle when entering or leaving the pew before or after Mass.

 

[palmas85]

Being older I had always genuflected before sitting down in the pews. When the tabernacle was moved to side chapels or whereever, for years I continued to genuflect even though it was no longer on the altar. It never occurred to me not to. Recently though, for some reason, I began to question why I was still doing it. I then started to enter the church, go to the side chapel where the Blessed tabernacle genuflect, stay there for a few minutes, genuflect again, go to the center of the church bow and then take my seat.

I hope that is the proper course of action these days.

 

[AltarMan]

Tedster:

Maybe he should also explain that this is a no no. **The tabernacle should be in the sanctuary directly behind the altar **(from our point of view). If the tabernacle is not in the sanctuary , then you would NOT geneflect (and I’m not sure you would even bow), as this is an act of adoration reserved for God and He is not there to adore!

This is not a requirement.

 

[AltarMan]

Br. Rich SFO:

When the tabernacle is present in the space you are in and the sanctuary lamp is burning. Even though the tabernacle may not be front and center. You are required (if you are able) to genuflect towards the tabernacle. If no tabernacle is present then you bow to the altar or crucifix.

If the tabernacle is present but behind you at the back of the church? Then you turn around and genuflect towards the tabernacle when entering or leaving the pew before or after Mass.

Catholics do not bow to the crucifix.

 

[CatholicCid]

Tedster:

Maybe he should also explain that this is a no no. The tabernacle should be in the sanctuary directly behind the altar (from our point of view). If the tabernacle is not in the sanctuary , then you would NOT geneflect (and I’m not sure you would even bow), as this is an act of adoration reserved for God and He is not there to adore!

One can bow to the altar in respect for the sacrafice that happens upon it (at least that was how I was taught)

 

[AltarMan]

CatholicCid:

One can bow to the altar in respect for the sacrafice that happens upon it (at least that was how I was taught)

The altar is bowed to. The crucifix is not.

 

[AJV]

AltarMan:

Catholics do not bow to the crucifix.

You know, I have been wondering about that. The GIRM indicates that bows are made to the altar. But looking at some statements on the Tridentine rite it seems that the cross was the object of veneration:

For example the Guide to low mass says this many times e.g. Preparing the altar:

Return to the middle of the altar, bow the head to the altar cross

See the statement of Msgr Gambier on the revised Holy Week riteshere
When speaking of Good Friday he says

The Roman Pontifical teaches us that we do not greet a new altar before having placed its cross. The altar itself is not the object of veneration, but the cross that dominates it, and to which all prayers are addressed.

The altar without a cross has no right to a bow or genuflection

Has a change in thought occured or does the same hold true today?

 

[CatholicCid]

AltarMan:

The altar is bowed to. The crucifix is not.

That’s what I said
As for the crucifix, I have no clue on procedure’s for that

 

[AltarMan]

AJV:

You know, I have been wondering about that. The GIRM indicates that bows are made to the altar. But looking at some statements on the Tridentine rite it seems that the cross was the object of veneration:

For example the Guide to low mass says this many times e.g. Preparing the altar:

See the statement of Msgr Gambier on the revised Holy Week riteshere
When speaking of Good Friday he says

Has a change in thought occured or does the same hold true today?

One bows to the altar (as a symbol of Christ) and not to the crucifix. The monsignor might be confused – for example, during the stations of the cross, it’s the CROSSES we are venerating, not the graphics of the Passion… The monsignor might also be talking about a brand new altar that has not yet been placed into service.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

In the monastery where I was received into the Church (Carmelite), the monks make profound bows (and I mean LOOOOOOWWW) to the Blessed Sacrament and so I did as well, but then, genuflected in parish churches. Now I can’t get back up if I go down to the floor on one knee (even holding to the pew…though I’m not old at 43, I’ve got a congenitally bad back), so I’m back to the bow. Bobbing looks like curtseying, which guys don’t do.

 

[AJV]

AltarMan:

One bows to the altar (as a symbol of Christ) and not to the crucifix. The monsignor might be confused – for example, during the stations of the cross, it’s the CROSSES we are venerating, not the graphics of the Passion… The monsignor might also be talking about a brand new altar that has not yet been placed into service.

Confused? Don’t think thats possible. He WAS Master of Ceremonies-under Pope Pius XII no less. I see what you mean with regard to the altar but I feel he’s talking about the altar in general. And what about the statement from the low mass guide?

Some more sources for thought:

The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia on the Altar Crucifix says

At all other times during the year a simple genuflexion is made to the cross, even when the Blessed Sacrament is not kept in the tabernacle, during any function, by all except the bishop, the canons of the cathedral, and the celebrant (Cong. Sac. Rit., 30 August, 1892)

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

AltarMan:

Catholics do not bow to the crucifix.

Well I do not find it in the GIRM. But then would not necessarly expect to. However it is a common practice here even before the new instruction, to bow when passing in front of a Crucifix or when a processional crucifix passes by.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

AltarMan:

One bows to the altar (as a symbol of Christ) and not to the crucifix. The monsignor might be confused – for example, during the stations of the cross, it’s the CROSSES we are venerating, not the graphics of the Passion… The monsignor might also be talking about a brand new altar that has not yet been placed into service.

“One bows to the altar (as a symbol of Christ) and not to the crucifix.”

And I always thought the Crucifix represented Christ too!

 

[MilitaryWife91]

I attend mass in a building used for all faiths (we are on a military base). We bow to the altar because the blessed sacrament is in a small side chapel. If we were allowed to have the blessed sacrament in the main chapel, we would genuflect.

MW

 

[puzzleannie]

AJV:

You know, I have been wondering about that. The GIRM indicates that bows are made to the altar. But looking at some statements on the Tridentine rite it seems that the cross was the object of veneration:

For example the Guide to low mass says this many times e.g. Preparing the altar:

See the statement of Msgr Gambier on the revised Holy Week riteshere
When speaking of Good Friday he says

Has a change in thought occured or does the same hold true today?

your citation did not carry over, the comment Msgr made was “an altar without a cross has no right to a bow or genuflexion”

still true, there must be a crucifix in proximity to the altar clearly displayed and visible during Mass, and if it is properly positioned a bow to the altar and crucifix would be the same motion. (assuming this is a Church where the tabernacle is in a side chapel etc.)

 

[totustuusmaria]

Marquette:

I’m in RCAI and the priest explained that in a church where the host is kept in the front of the sanctuary, you should genuflect, but if it is kept in a side chapel or whatever, you can bow, because of the crucifex at the front. (I think I have this right.)

My husband was raised Catholic but didn’t go for over 20 years as he was going with me to a protestant church, but he is now going back and since he grew up genuflecting, he does that. I notice people doing both in the Catholic church were we now go.

It has to do with the proper signs of reverence. This is how one should respond to different circumstances:

1. If Jesus is exposed, have both knees touch the ground before you get up.
2. If Jesus is in the tabernacle, genuflect (one knee touching the gound) to the tablernacle
3. If you pass an altar, make a profound bow (at the waist)
4. If you pass a crucifix, or someone says the names of Jesus or Mary make a simple bow (at the kneck).

If Jesus is int he tabernacle and people don’t genuflect you know something’s wrong with the ethos. At the same time, I see the opposite problem all the time. Jesus isn’t in the tabernacle, the tabernacle is empty or in a side-chapel–instead of making a profound bow (to honor the altar) people genuflect anyway.

That caused me as a freshmen at Franciscan University of Steubenville to compose a little saw to the tone of one of those Brittish Anthems…

“Sing hail! Sing hail! to Catholic ha-a-bit!
We will genuflect to no-o-thing!”

Oh, one more thing, there is no requirement to genuflect if you can’t actually see the tabernacle, even if you know it’s there.

 

[totustuusmaria]

puzzleannie:

your citation did not carry over, the comment Msgr made was “an altar without a cross has no right to a bow or genuflexion”

still true, there must be a crucifix in proximity to the altar clearly displayed and visible during Mass, and if it is properly positioned a bow to the altar and crucifix would be the same motion. (assuming this is a Church where the tabernacle is in a side chapel etc.)

My understanding, though I might be wrong, is that a dedicated altar is ontilogically higher than a crucifix since the altar is that on which the Sacrifice is made whereas a crucifix is an image of that sacrifice. Also, one would make a bow to a dedicated altar since it probably has relics in it.

Thanks for the link to the rubrics for the low mass.