Boy Scouts and Freemasonry

[Brian_H]

Most Catholics know that a Catholic that becomes a freemason is in a state of grave sin and cannot receive any sacraments while a member of that organization. But, don’t people realize that the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were both started by Freemasons, are based upon Freemasonry, and attempt to indoctrinate young men with masonic ideals. One example, no atheist can be a freemason, or a Boy Scout, but it doesn’t matter which religion a person believes in. Boy Scouts and Freemasonry both teach religious indifference and treat various religions as equals. This is clearly in contradiction to the truth of the Catholic Church.

So, I think it’s time that the Church forbid membership in Boy Scouts, and other civic groups based on freemasonry and I think there should be a group like the K of C for boys.

 

[tarboy]

In line with your thinking, it’s time that the Church forbid all US Catholics from being US Citizens, since our country was founded by George Washington (a known Mason). Not sure where we’ll all go but it’s logical, isn’t it?

Most Catholics know that a Catholic that becomes a freemason is in a state of grave sin and cannot receive any sacraments while a member of that organization. But, don’t people realize that the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were both started by Freemasons, are based upon Freemasonry, and attempt to indoctrinate young men with masonic ideals. One example, no atheist can be a freemason, or a Boy Scout, but it doesn’t matter which religion a person believes in. Boy Scouts and Freemasonry both teach religious indifference and treat various religions as equals. This is clearly in contradiction to the truth of the Catholic Church.

So, I think it’s time that the Church forbid membership in Boy Scouts, and other civic groups based on freemasonry and I think there should be a group like the K of C for boys.

 

[Erich]

…the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were both started by Freemasons…

Just a few nits, but… not all of the founders of the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were Masons (though there certainly were a disproportionate number of Masons among their number).

From this link:

“…there is no evidence that Major-General Lord Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell was a freemason under the English, Irish or Scottish Constitutions. It is remotely possible, but unlikely, that he was initiated under some other jurisdiction.
…
Lady Olave Baden-Powell (1889/02/22-1977/06/19), has confirmed that B-P was not a freemason, but that his younger brother, Major David Baden-Powell, was a member of the Craft…”

That said, many of B-P’s contemporaries *were *Masons, including Dan Beard and James E. West.

I know W.D. Boyce was a Mason, but I don’t know whether he became one before or after the BSA was founded. A quick search of various lists of famous Masons did not turn up anything for Ernest Thompson Seton.

Finally, while Edson was a Mason, Goodman only became a Mason after the OA was founded.

 

[Brian_H]

The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence were both heavily influenced by masonic ideals. George Washington was one of several freemasons that were involved in creating America. America was founded as a secular country and heavily influenced by freemasonry and enlightenment ideas which were hostile to the Church. So I think your logic is correct. The Church forbids involvement in masonry because it is hostile to the Church and holds dogmas which are contrary to the truth revealed by the Church. It is only logical that Catholics not be involved in not only freemasonry, but other organizations, such as the Boy Scouts or other secular or civic organizations which are based upon freemasonry, and therefore hostile to the truth and the Church.

 

[cjmclark]

Most Catholics know that a Catholic that becomes a freemason is in a state of grave sin and cannot receive any sacraments while a member of that organization. But, don’t people realize that the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were both started by Freemasons, are based upon Freemasonry, and attempt to indoctrinate young men with masonic ideals. One example, no atheist can be a freemason, or a Boy Scout, but it doesn’t matter which religion a person believes in. Boy Scouts and Freemasonry both teach religious indifference and treat various religions as equals. This is clearly in contradiction to the truth of the Catholic Church.

So, I think it’s time that the Church forbid membership in Boy Scouts, and other civic groups based on freemasonry and I think there should be a group like the K of C for boys.

I don’t know how widespread they are, but you could give the Columbian Squires a look if you’re interested in a group like the K of C for boys. That’s exactly what they are.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I will concede that my vague memories of joining the Order of the Arrow many years ago (I didn’t get involved in anything after the initiation, or whatever it was called) makes me think of them as an absurd pretend secret society.

But when it comes to the Boy Scouts, can you point to anything actually objectionable about it, other than who some of its founders are (which is pretty irrelevant as regards the organization today)? I for one think it’s great that God and religion get some recognition in the Boy Scouts, even if we could desire more. It’s better than the completely secular organization I expect it would have been if it had come into existence today.

 

[runningdude]

Boy Scouts and Freemasonry both teach religious indifference and treat various religions as equals. This is clearly in contradiction to the truth of the Catholic Church.

So, I think it’s time that the Church forbid membership in Boy Scouts, and other civic groups based on freemasonry and I think there should be a group like the K of C for boys.

No. The Boy Scout movement as a whole is ideologically neutral. It is simply a program framework and support staff. Each individual “Troop”, the local chapter that a boy will join, is legally part of a sponsoring organization.

For instance, a troop sponsored by a Catholic Church functions as ministry of the parish. The “scoutmaster”, the adult in charge of the troop, is appointed by the priest, and is charged with remaining faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church. The ideology of each troop is based wholly on the sponsoring organization.

Perhaps, it might be forbidden for a Catholic to join a unit sponsored by a Masonic Lodge, however, it would be because the parent organization is incompatible with the Christian faith, not the boy scout movement itself.

 

[GEddie]

I was in the scouts, quit after grade seven, but never saw anything there that might be identifiable as Masonic.

An organization can be started by anybody; it’s the rubrics of that organization, not the founders’ beliefs, that matter. Else, as has been said, Catholics should not live in the USA.

If scouting were Masonic, Catholic schools and parishes would not have scout troops.

ICXC NIKA

 

[alwayslooking]

Many diocese have a Catholic Committee on Scouting. The committee supports special camparees and retreats for Catholic troops. I have a Catholic prayer book for scouts that I purchased from my local service center.

There is also a National Catholic Committee on Scouting (NCCS).

The Boy Scouts have religious awards for over 50 denominations, including Catholicism. These awards are organized by the NCCS. They are:

Award for Excellence (Unit Award)
Catholic Quality Unit Award - Paul VI (Unit Award)

Light of Christ (6-7 Cub Scouts)
Parvuli Dei (8-10 Cub Scouts)
Ad Altare Dei (13-14 Boy Scouts)
Light is Life (Eastern Catholic alternative to Ad Altare Dei)
Pope Pius XII (14-21 Boy Scouts, Explorers, & Venturers)

 

[mab23]

Most Catholics know that a Catholic that becomes a freemason is in a state of grave sin and cannot receive any sacraments while a member of that organization. But, don’t people realize that the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were both started by Freemasons, are based upon Freemasonry, and attempt to indoctrinate young men with masonic ideals. One example, no atheist can be a freemason, or a Boy Scout, but it doesn’t matter which religion a person believes in. Boy Scouts and Freemasonry both teach religious indifference and treat various religions as equals. This is clearly in contradiction to the truth of the Catholic Church.

So, I think it’s time that the Church forbid membership in Boy Scouts, and other civic groups based on freemasonry and I think there should be a group like the K of C for boys.

I was a boyscout - and went to church - the boyscouts never conflicted with my teachings

infact what i mostly remember of my boyscout days was charity work , and uniforms, oh and fundraisers

 

[ess1113a]

Extremely good point and conversation.
We, as Catholics, should forbid any interaction with any other religion except ours. Roman Catholicism is the only true Church and as a result no other secular organizations should be permitted.

Boy Scouts are just the tip of the iceberg.
Alcoholics Anonymous requires only a belief in a supreme (not Jesus Christ) being so they are evil by our definition and irregardless of the perceived “good” they need to be excluded by Roman Catholics.

The oath given to witnesses and to public servants in court and swearing in ceremonies only mentions “god”. The true sense of the word would be “God” and by definition would mean only Jesus Christ or his Father so I would encourage all good Catholics to purposely avoid any legal testimony that requires an oath.
Any public servant that has to swear an oath, even on the Holy Bible, without the oath specifically mentioning God or Jesus Christ as our personal savior needs to be excluded. City Councils, judges, public servants should immediately leave their elected or appointed positions and accept the Church’s teaching.

I am sorry that we have to take this step but it makes sense and any reasonable Catholic can see the need for this measure

 

[RyanBlack]

Extremely good point and conversation.
We, as Catholics, should forbid any interaction with any other religion except ours. Roman Catholicism is the only true Church and as a result no other secular organizations should be permitted.

Boy Scouts are just the tip of the iceberg.
Alcoholics Anonymous requires only a belief in a supreme (not Jesus Christ) being so they are evil by our definition and irregardless of the perceived “good” they need to be excluded by Roman Catholics.

The oath given to witnesses and to public servants in court and swearing in ceremonies only mentions “god”. The true sense of the word would be “God” and by definition would mean only Jesus Christ or his Father so I would encourage all good Catholics to purposely avoid any legal testimony that requires an oath.
Any public servant that has to swear an oath, even on the Holy Bible, without the oath specifically mentioning God or Jesus Christ as our personal savior needs to be excluded. City Councils, judges, public servants should immediately leave their elected or appointed positions and accept the Church’s teaching.

I am sorry that we have to take this step but it makes sense and any reasonable Catholic can see the need for this measure

This is merely your opinion, and there are quite a few reasonable Catholics who reject it.

 

[CopticChristian]

Most Catholics know that a Catholic that becomes a freemason is in a state of grave sin and cannot receive any sacraments while a member of that organization. But, don’t people realize that the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were both started by Freemasons, are based upon Freemasonry, and attempt to indoctrinate young men with masonic ideals. One example, no atheist can be a freemason, or a Boy Scout, but it doesn’t matter which religion a person believes in. Boy Scouts and Freemasonry both teach religious indifference and treat various religions as equals. This is clearly in contradiction to the truth of the Catholic Church.

So, I think it’s time that the Church forbid membership in Boy Scouts, and other civic groups based on freemasonry and I think there should be a group like the K of C for boys.

Brian,

I was an Eagle Scout at my parish Catholic Church…do I need to surrender?

 

[CopticChristian]

Extremely good point and conversation.
We, as Catholics, should forbid any interaction with any other religion except ours. Roman Catholicism is the only true Church and as a result no other secular organizations should be permitted.

Boy Scouts are just the tip of the iceberg.
Alcoholics Anonymous requires only a belief in a supreme (not Jesus Christ) being so they are evil by our definition and irregardless of the perceived “good” they need to be excluded by Roman Catholics.
The oath given to witnesses and to public servants in court and swearing in ceremonies only mentions “god”. The true sense of the word would be “God” and by definition would mean only Jesus Christ or his Father so I would encourage all good Catholics to purposely avoid any legal testimony that requires an oath.
Any public servant that has to swear an oath, even on the Holy Bible, without the oath specifically mentioning God or Jesus Christ as our personal savior needs to be excluded. City Councils, judges, public servants should immediately leave their elected or appointed positions and accept the Church’s teaching.

I am sorry that we have to take this step but it makes sense and any reasonable Catholic can see the need for this measure

You are correct here. The 9th, 7th Circuit Courts of appeal have declared that AA is a religion and violates the establishment clause. AA is a religion without Christ. It is founded on something created by Frank Buchman called Moral Rearmament that later became the Oxford Groupers. There is a group of Protestants that have a site called “12 steps to another gospel”…google it…The Church has issued a document on this…

Jesus Christ the Bearer of the Water of Life stating that Sin and Salvation have been replaced with addiction and recovery…I agree.

You got this one right…

 

[ess1113a]

I really have no idea why we draw the line for excluding Freemasonry.

We should never have or use one dollar bills with Mason George Washingtons picture on it or the masonic symbols on the back, same with the quarter.

We shoudl never buy, drive, or drive inside a Ford vehicle of any kind. Henry Ford was a mason and his dedication to satan is obvious in his vehicles.

Benjamin Franklin should never be taught in history classes at any age. He was actually the grand master in Pennsylvania

There are 14 presidents to include both Roosevelts and Truman along with Washington and Andrew Jackson. They should be excluded from all history texts and classroom instruction.

Mozart, Beethoven, Sousa, Haydn, and Beethoven were ALL masons. There music should be excluded in any classes that are taught.

The Roman Catholic Church has a rich and noble past that we can teach in Catholic school. There is no need to ever mention or illustrate anyone that was associated with Freemasonry or its branches. Just use the Catholic heroes that we have and that will be plenty to teach our children.

If you are unlucky enough to have children in public school (you have my prayers) you can still talk to the school board and have ALL mention of masonic heroes removed from text books and classes. By doing anything less you are making the problem worse.

 

[runningdude]

This is merely your opinion, and there are quite a few reasonable Catholics who reject it.

His tongue is firmly placed in his cheek…

 

[1AugustSon7]

In line with your thinking, it’s time that the Church forbid all US Catholics from being US Citizens, since our country was founded by George Washington (a known Mason). Not sure where we’ll all go but it’s logical, isn’t it?

These things are simply not analogous. We have a God given duty to love our countries, usually listed under the commandment to honour father and mother (and by extension all your benefactors).

The secular principles or diktats of any country that are imposed by men upon their fellow citizens may or may not be acceptable to God. The first Christians had to honour the Emperor with human honours and respect the rights or prerogatives of the State; however, they did not confuse its overt paganism, injustices and fallacious philosophies as being also legitimate.

The natural law makes us members of a nation and it cannot be disjoined. No law makes someone a boy-scout.

The Arrow has received a lot of criticism owing to its emphasis on rituals that clearly were inspired by Freemasonry. Boy Scouts are not, from what I have read and heard, quite so ritualistic.

To the OP:

It is certainly a good and pious thought to desire an association for boys that is built upon Catholic principles. Such an association would certainly be more preferable and beneficial than a secular association where religion is excluded or treated as secondary or as some sort of after-thought. That, in and of itself, vitiates a Catholic’s education and undermines Catholic belief and practice.

 

[ess1113a]

This is merely your opinion, and there are quite a few reasonable Catholics who reject it.

How could any reasonable Catholic be against what I said? Hypocrisy ! We cannot exclude organizations for not specifying Jesus Christ as the son of God and still tolerate other groups that refuse to proclaim the truths that our religion adheres to and subscribes to.

Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, AA, NA, Freemasonry etc etc. They are all moral relativist and you perpetuate that.

 

[GEddie]

How could any reasonable Catholic be against what I said? Hypocrisy ! We cannot exclude organizations for not specifying Jesus Christ as the son of God and still tolerate other groups that refuse to proclaim the truths that our religion adheres to and subscribes to.

Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, AA, NA, Freemasonry etc etc. They are all moral relativist and you perpetuate that.

No, the BS are not moral relativist, they are secular. There is a difference.

It is good for youth to be involved in secular organizations, if for no other reason than they will be spending most of their life in a secular pursuit otherwise known as “employment” and interacting with others in the secular entity known as “civil society”.

ICXC NIKA

 

[ess1113a]

Not satirical at all and certainly not for entertainment.
I am totally honest and serious. Why do we draw the line at certain aspects of our faith? We cannot be discriminatory in our values. How do we condemn the Boy Scouts, AA, and Freemasonry without living our faith totally and condemning the simple aspects of oaths in a courtroom and oaths of office?

Moral relativism is where we always go wrong. Subjectively applying the Catholic value system to some organizations while avoiding others is wrong in any concept.