Boy Scouts and Freemasonry

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ess1113a said:
From what I have read and researched:
Do the scouts sponsor over 30 pediatric hospitals free of charge?
Do the scouts donate millions of dollars per day to charity?
Do the scouts sponsor orphanages?
Did the scouts participate in the founding of this nation?
Do the scouts finance and run dyslexia learning centers free of charge in several locations throughout the US?
Masons have thousands of local “camps”, apparently they are called lodges. In Texas there are about 960 of them.
At their heart, Freemasonry appears to be about making average men into better men. That is a unique mission and charge that Freemasonry appears to have.
If you call building and financing major hospitals and orthopedic clinics service projects then I guess they do.
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All of which points to a very different purpose for each organization. It’s not about which is more philanthropic, masons or boy scouts? I am arguing that the organizations are very different.
 
ess1113a said:
Very good points. So I can quote these in my argument:
What wording is used when they deny original sin?
Where do they deny Christianity?
Where do they have heresy as their goal?

Thanks for the points but I love being able to quote specific instances in my argument with my business associate. I would appreciate the information so I can use this next time we discuss this and I am sure it will come up.
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scripturecatholic.com/freemasonfaq.html
is my source for what I’ve been talking about.

A few points made by the author:
Freemasonry has a very formal religious system which includes a belief in God as the Grand Architect of the Universe, the immortality of the soul and the resurrection of the body. Masonry also believes that man can achieve salvation by his good works, independent of God’s gift of grace. Notwithstanding its belief in God, resurrection of the body, and salvation by works, Masonry does not require its members to believe in Jesus Christ or His Church.

Freemasonry also reverences all religious writings and places these writings on par with God’s written Word found in the Bible. Thus, Masonry places all religious writings on its altar (Book of Mormon, the Vedas, Zend Avesta, the Sohar, the Kabalah, the Bhagavad-Gita, the Upanishads or any other religious writing). This is because, unlike Christianity, Freemasonry does not believe that the Bible is the revealed written Word of God. Instead, Freemasonry views all religions as equally plausible attempts to explain the truth about God which, in the end, cannot be known.

Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).
 
ess1113a said:
Daniel Carter Beard,
Founder of the Boy Scouts.
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General Baden-Powel is the founder of the Boy Scouts.in general (no pun) and W.D. Boyce is the founder of the Boy Scouts of America.

And, as I mentioned, I don’t know if the picture of the boy scouts assisting at a EF Mass were SSPX or of another order.

And the ‘SSPX’ was not excommunicated, 5 bishops in the order were.

An excommunincation can only apply to persons.

Either way, traditional Catholics of any stripe are not what you would call supportive of Freemasonry.

If you belief there a a lot of simularities between Scouting and Freemasory, you are simply mistaken.
 
ess1113a said:
Found this interesting pin. Wonder if its worn by many members of the BSA?
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Nope
  1. Secrecy is not the main issue since the K of C and the Boy Scouts both have “secrets” and they should not be shared with just the general population.
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…
Incorrect. There are specifically no secrets in Scouting. A parent is welcome and ecouraged to attend and participate in any and all Scouting events\activities.
 
ess1113a said:
Daniel Carter Beard,
Founder of the Boy Scouts.
Made a Mason in Mariner’s Lodge No. 67, New York City, New York, and later affiliated with Cornucopia Lodge 563, Flushing, New York

Other masons who were also heavily involved in scouting were:
M.W. Bro. H.R.H. the Duke of Kent, Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England and President of the Boy Scout Movement in 1975;
V.W. Bro. Archbishop Lord Fisher;
Bro. Rudyard Kipling;
M.W. Bro. Edward, Prince of Wales -Chief Scout in 1911;
M.W. Bro. The Duke of Kent, GM, UGLE 19391942, Commodore of the Sea Scouts 1929-1942;
V.W. Bro. the Very Rev. Israel Brodie, Chief Rabbi, who was a member of the Boy Scouts Council; and Lord Somers, Governor of Victoria and foundation Master of Baden-Powell Lodge No. 488, who became Chief Scout in 1941 upon Lord Baden-Powell’s death.

I am surprised also with the Church’s support of BSA and their condemnation of the Freemasons. Looks like the two have ALOT of similarities.

Is that the same SSPX that was excommunicated by our Pope?
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They were all Anglican. They were under no obligation to avoid the Masons.

Catholic Canon Law only applies to Catholics. Orthodox Canon Law applies to Orthodox. Anglicans have no Canon Law. They can’t require their members to do anything.

Masons aren’t evil. Masonry may even teach some good values to its members. The problem is that it is a belief system that requires its members to regard the Catholic Church as one option among many. No Catholic can in good faith believe such, which is why Catholics cannot join.
 
Brian_H said:
But, don’t people realize that the Boy Scouts and the Order of the Arrow were both started by Freemasons, are based upon Freemasonry, and attempt to indoctrinate young men with masonic ideals. .
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Not knowing and not believing are two different things entirely. The internet is rife with dubious connections and conspiracy theories. The bottom line is that Freemasonry is condemned. Boy Scouts are not. Moreover, they are active in many parishes. So what if they have a Masonic award. They also have a Catholic award. This does not mean that the Boy Scouts are connected to the Vatican.

How about we just stick to listening to the Church and not engage in conjecture. Might I as the OP’s motive in stirring this up?

FYI -

Here is a list of religious awards:

usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/religious.asp#Roman
 
  1. As regards moral teaching in BSA, here is about the extent of it as it relates to religious principles (from the 1927 Handbook for Boys):
Doesnt sound like the BSA are subscribing to the Holy Bible, BSA must not be a good organization because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).
 
es, as has already been stated, you need to stand by your convictions and move out of the USA.
It appears the boy scouts respect our constitutional right to freedom of religion.
 
ess1113a said:
  1. As regards moral teaching in BSA, here is about the extent of it as it relates to religious principles (from the 1927 Handbook for Boys):
    …
Doesnt sound like the BSA are subscribing to the Holy Bible, BSA must not be a good organization because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).
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The Masons forbid speaking about religion in the Lodge because it considers all religions to be equivalent, with only petty differences. Masonry claims that rising above petty squabbling is truth.

Boy Scouts however, is merely ideologically neutral at the national level. It encourages a scout to live by the tenets of the religion he was taught by his parents. Unlike Masonry, the Boy Scouts of America does not claim to know which ideology is the truth.

As a friendly warning, your posts have been borderline hostile thus far, and focused almost entirely one particular group, the Masons. I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but CAF rules don’t allow attacks against other religions, and you run the risk of aggravating the Mods.
 
I’m with the OP. Nothing is more mortally sinful than asking me to buy popcorn at 8 in the morning on a weekend.
 
There is a National Catholic Committee on Scouting. Hardly something that would be the case if Scouting were contrary to the Church. There are Diocesan Committees on Scouting. Hardly something that would be the case if Scouting were contrary to the Church. Scouting is a religiously neutral, non-sectarian, civic organization that teaches boys and young men outdoor skills and character development, and does not claim to be a version of the truth. As a life-long Scout and Scouter, Eagle Scout, Brotherhood member of the Order of the Arrow, and now a Catholic seminarian studying for the priesthood, I can tell you that Scouting in and of itself is in no way harmful to the practice of one’s faith. The values and experiences and leadership opportunities helped to shape the discernment of my vocation–and I’m sure if you ask the few dozen Eagle Scouts who attend my seminary they’d say the same thing. Were there Freemasons in the history of Scouting? Sure. Does that mean that Scouting is Masonic in nature? Not necessarily. The paranoia rampant in this thread seems derived more from hysteria and conspiracy theories than actual first-hand knowledge of Scouting, which is a shame. I’d say that to avoid bearing false witness against fellow Catholics and against Scouting, the best thing to do would be to actually look at what Scouting does–maybe read their website or talk to actual Scouts. No sense in throwing around a bunch of paranoid rumors when you can go straight to the source. To wit, you might visit: nccs-bsa.org/

-ACEGC
 
runningdude said:
The Masons forbid speaking about religion in the Lodge because it considers all religions to be equivalent, with only petty differences. Masonry claims that rising above petty squabbling is truth.

Boy Scouts however, is merely ideologically neutral at the national level. It encourages a scout to live by the tenets of the religion he was taught by his parents. Unlike Masonry, the Boy Scouts of America does not claim to know which ideology is the truth.

As a friendly warning, your posts have been borderline hostile thus far, and focused almost entirely one particular group, the Masons. I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but CAF rules don’t allow attacks against other religions, and you run the risk of aggravating the Mods.
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Sounds like you were a mason !!
 
runningdude said:
They were all Anglican. They were under no obligation to avoid the Masons.

Catholic Canon Law only applies to Catholics. Orthodox Canon Law applies to Orthodox. Anglicans have no Canon Law. They can’t require their members to do anything.

Masons aren’t evil. Masonry may even teach some good values to its members. The problem is that it is a belief system that requires its members to regard the Catholic Church as one option among many. No Catholic can in good faith believe such, which is why Catholics cannot join.
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Doesnt every organization regard Catholicism as an option?
Lions Club?
Kiwana?
VFW?
American Legion?
 
runningdude said:
The Masons forbid speaking about religion in the Lodge because it considers all religions to be equivalent, with only petty differences. Masonry claims that rising above petty squabbling is truth.

Boy Scouts however, is merely ideologically neutral at the national level. It encourages a scout to live by the tenets of the religion he was taught by his parents. Unlike Masonry, the Boy Scouts of America does not claim to know which ideology is the truth.

As a friendly warning, your posts have been borderline hostile thus far, and focused almost entirely one particular group, the Masons. I’ve been giving you the benefit of the doubt, but CAF rules don’t allow attacks against other religions, and you run the risk of aggravating the Mods.
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Freemasonry isnt a religion so what religion am I attacking?
Not sure I follow your logic if any applies here.
 
 
 
ess1113a said:
  1. As regards moral teaching in BSA, here is about the extent of it as it relates to religious principles (from the 1927 Handbook for Boys):
Doesnt sound like the BSA are subscribing to the Holy Bible, BSA must not be a good organization because it promotes indifferentism. Indifferentism is the heretical belief that all religions are equally legitimate attempts to explain the truth about God which, but for the truth of His existence, are unexplainable. Such a view makes all truths relative and holds that God can be equally pleased with truth and error. Because Christians believe that God has definitively revealed Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, and desires that all men come to the knowledge of this truth, indifferentism is incompatible with Christian faith. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6).
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Dude, does your bridge club subscribe to the Holy Bible? Or do they recognize no other rules than those laid out by Hoyle?

Not every organization is a church. BSA is not pushing relativism, in fact, quite the opposite, hence “keep myself… morally straight.”

In my region, there is an annual catholic scout retreat, one of the priests in my parish actually leads it. The entire weekend is devoted to camping and catholic activities, and of course mass is celebrated.

Also, as regards the OA ceremonies, which seem to rankle the most, in my view they are inspired more by “Last of the Mohicans” and “Song of Hiawatha” than freemasonry.
 
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