Boy Scouts and Freemasonry

[tarboy]

ess
you’ve been beating around the bush for ages, which I find annoying (my personal issue).
So we can stop wasting electrons and move on to your real point - you seem to feel masons have been unjustly singled out by the Catholic church?

Personally, I can empathize with the vatican wanting Catholic men to build and support their own fraternal organization. I can’t comment on the politics of the Mason decision though.

Doesnt every organization regard Catholicism as an option?
Lions Club?
Kiwana?
VFW?
American Legion?

 

[ess1113a]

ess
you’ve been beating around the bush for ages, which I find annoying (my personal issue).
So we can stop wasting electrons and move on to your real point - you seem to feel masons have been unjustly singled out by the Catholic church?

Personally, I can empathize with the vatican wanting Catholic men to build and support their own fraternal organization. I can’t comment on the politics of the Mason decision though.

Tarboy,
I am adamantly against any good organizatiion being singled out for ridicule based solely upon ignorance. I am not defending Freemasons although I know several and they are fine and upstanding Christians and men. The Freemasons do not need defending. I am not defending the BSA since I doubt they need defending also.

I am totally and completly opposed to ignorance ruling the day.
The total honesty on my part is that Galileo was excommunicated for 350 years because he had the temerity to state that the earth revolves around the sun rather than the other way around. It too 350 years for my Church, your Church, and our Church, to realize they were in error. I wonder, quite frankly, if we arent on the same glide path with Freemasonry. How many years have to pass before we realize that some really good, fair, and decent men were excluded from the roles of Catholicism because of some misconceptions.

I base every single word of my postings from personal knowledge of these men that love families and worship the very same God that we do. Its that simple.
As heretical as it seems I also am personally aware of some great Catholics that are devoted and devout but are also secretly Freemasons because they like to associate with like minded individuals. I have seen the inside of their lodge on a personal tour and I have seen the presence of the Holy Bible in the middle of their lodge room occupying a place of honor. Should we as Catholics condemn any organization that respects the religion and beliefs of other men? My personal and Christian belief is a resounding NO.
I have done my research and although I am no expert I can personally say that through conversation and research that the vast majority of lodges in my state are inherently and totally Christian. They require the Holy Bible to be present at all meetings and many lodges allow pictures of Jesus Christ to be places throughout the lodge room. All of that doesnt sound bad.

I can only comment on what others have written here. I do not know of the other posters personally but I know that zealotry carried to extremes ultimately leads to the ultimate situation that I have spent almost three years deployed into and thats a nation dedicated to killing all others that view God differently than they do. I have seen such narrow minded zealotry manifested in near genocide and that is NEVER good.

To the moderator that commented to me: I respect your authority on this website and will comply. I do not think that commenting that someone sounded like a Freemason was an insult or personal attack. Having known Freemasons throughout my life I think thats tantamount to a compliment. They are respectable men and they do not deserve to be condemned or ridiculed. They believe in the very same things we believe in and thats my personal knowledge not some things I have read.

Of course everything we discuss here is pure conjecture. Unless someone among us or within the Church knocks on the door of a lodge and says “explain what goes on in here” I doubt we will ever know the total truth about Freemasonry. As that will never happen I conclude that we will all remain in the half darkness about the psychology of Freemasonry and the true belief system that the organization possesses.

Throughout the course of these postings (which I did not originate), the basic premise is that the BSA holds many of the same generic belief systems that Freemasonry adheres to. An overall respect for the individual choice when it comes to God and the respect of differing opinions. Although the BSA is an accepted organization within many parishes that does not make it unworthy of questions. The very same can be said of other civic organizations ie Lions Club, Kiwanas, AMVETS and the like. It is historic proof that the BSA was founded and heavily influenced by Freemasons. That is historical fact and although members here may argue the names and affiliations are public knowledge. That doesnt mean that the BSA is Masonic but it does say that these men were broad minded and the overall concept of brotherly love, relief, and truth apply equally to the BSA and Freemasons.

I personally am not without sin so I cannot cast that proverbial first stone. I know a good man when I am associated with him and the fact that he wears a Masonic ring on his finger does not make him bad or evil. They helped my family throughout the 30 months I was deployed and nobody in our parish did. That doesnt make the parish bad or Freemasons good but I have to lend weight to the devoted men that looked after my family in my absence.

As a Catholic I personally have two texts that dictate my intercourse with my Church: the Holy Bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I believe that I personally am prohibited from membership in any organization that conspires against the Holy See. In my opnion and in my beliefs, that does not apply to the Freemasons that operate in my country, my state, my county and my community.
I believe that Holy Fathers may come and go and I also firmly believe that someday we will see a revocation of the edicts against Freemasony just as we did with Galileo. May not be in my lifetime but I am hopeful.

Thats my take and not a personal attack or attempted affront to anyone.

 

[Owlpride]

With all the evil in the world, why would anyone consider focusing their energy on the boy scouts (a group that does amazingly wonderful things) and the masons…which operate hospitals for sick children…

Yeah, somebody stop them. We could worry about abortion, gay marriage, increasingly secular influences on the culture…but someone please, the real problem is truly the masons…and those darn boy scouts.

Thank God that overwhelming majority of Catholics don’t think this way!

 

[ess1113a]

With all the evil in the world, why would anyone consider focusing their energy on the boy scouts (a group that does amazingly wonderful things) and the masons…which operate hospitals for sick children…

Yeah, somebody stop them. We could worry about abortion, gay marriage, increasingly secular influences on the culture…but someone please, the real problem is truly the masons…and those darn boy scouts.

Thank God that overwhelming majority of Catholics don’t think this way!

Well said and heart felt. Thank you.

 

[1AugustSon7]

But it does not follow that the Boy Scouts are a Masonic Organization.

The US Army was ‘founded’ by a Masonic Commanding General ( George Washington), and it’s current iteration allows for chaplains of multiple faiths, and soilder of even no faith at all.

But none of that means that the US Army is a Masonic organization.


I would challenge you to point out where in the BSA by-laws, or the Boy Scout Handbook, or even in any of the Merit Badge requirements, are any charasticly Masonic beliefs.

Actually in a manner of speaking that does make the U.S Army a Masonic organisation, in the sense that it is an outgrowth of Masonic philosophy. It is founded upon Masonic principles, such as religious indifferentism. That cannot be called Catholic. In practise, therefore, the U.S army will either be for or again the interests of the Faith in all its doings, and it remains for the Catholic to discern to what extent he might licitly participate.

However, this does not mean being a member of the U.S Army is in itself illicit or sinful. It does mean it can very likely become so if, for example, a Catholic were forced to compromise on his religion as a condition of joining or remaining in the U.S Army. If, for example, being a member of the U.S army at some point necessitated an approval or acceptance of homosexual marriage or sodomy as a moral, legitimate practise, then it would subsequently become sinful to join the Army, especially voluntarily.

This is the situation throughout the Western World and hardly unique to the U.S.

Secularism effectively makes Catholics a minority even if they happen to be in the majority. The Faith is nowhere protected, defended or even considered (except perhaps from a purely political or practical perspective) in modern Western institutions; and even then it is generally an obstacle to be overcome or otherwise by-passed.

 

[ess1113a]

Actually in a manner of speaking that does make the U.S Army a Masonic organisation, in the sense that it is an outgrowth of Masonic philosophy. It is founded upon Masonic principles, such as religious indifferentism. That cannot be called Catholic. In practise, therefore, the U.S army will either be for or again the interests of the Faith in all its doings, and it remains for the Catholic to discern to what extent he might licitly participate.

However, this does not mean being a member of the U.S Army is in itself illicit or sinful. It does mean it can very likely become so if, for example, a Catholic were forced to compromise on his religion as a condition of joining or remaining in the U.S Army. If, for example, being a member of the U.S army at some point necessitated an approval or acceptance of homosexual marriage or sodomy as a moral, legitimate practise, then it would subsequently become sinful to join the Army, especially voluntarily.

This is the situation throughout the Western World and hardly unique to the U.S.

Secularism effectively makes Catholics a minority even if they happen to be in the majority. The Faith is nowhere protected, defended or even considered (except perhaps from a purely political or practical perspective) in modern Western institutions; and even then it is generally an obstacle to be overcome or otherwise by-passed.

So very glad I spent 23 years of my life in a “likely sinful” organization dedicated and committed to ensuring that people like yourself can retain the right to speak your mind however wrong you may be. My only regret is that I didnt serve with you personally. Would have loved that opportunity on so many different levels.

I will go to mass this weekend on post with a Catholic Army chaplain and will pray (not very heartfelt) for your reformation. Not sure you are worth it but I will pray for you as I do for my enemies.

 

[pnewton]

Actually in a manner of speaking that does make the U.S Army a Masonic organisation, in the sense that it is an outgrowth of Masonic philosophy.

Is this a joke, sarcasm or a Jack Chick theory? I can not figure out which.