Boy Scouts in Catholic Liturgy?

[rcwhiteh]

Greetings!

I’d like to know if anyone is making a special place in the Mass at their parish regarding the Boy Scouts.

My parish is preparing to present special sashes for our Scouts who serve on the altar during Mass. The sashes are the green merit-badge sashes, worn from the right shoulder to the left hip; they have a 4" brown, oval patch with the Scouting fleur-de-lis at the shoulder. Across the back of the sash is embroidered the phrase “Duty To God” in 2-inch high red block letters.

Our pastor approved this as a non-obtrusive way to acknowledge the contributions of our Scouts to the parish. I’m proud to say this was my idea originally - I just needed a little help from our Pack Committe’s PR Chairman.

Any other suggestions?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Greetings!

I’d like to know if anyone is making a special place in the Mass at their parish regarding the Boy Scouts.

My parish is preparing to present special sashes for our Scouts who serve on the altar during Mass. The sashes are the green merit-badge sashes, worn from the right shoulder to the left hip; they have a 4" brown, oval patch with the Scouting fleur-de-lis at the shoulder. Across the back of the sash is embroidered the phrase “Duty To God” in 2-inch high red block letters.

Our pastor approved this as a non-obtrusive way to acknowledge the contributions of our Scouts to the parish. I’m proud to say this was my idea originally - I just needed a little help from our Pack Committe’s PR Chairman.

Any other suggestions?

Just to make sure that Scout Sunday is recognized in February I think. Have any and all Scouts and Scouters, active or previous, stand to receive a special Blessing at the end of Mass. You will be supprised at how many people stand.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

The sashes are the green merit-badge sashes, worn from the right shoulder to the left hip; they have a 4" brown, oval patch with the Scouting fleur-de-lis at the shoulder. Across the back of the sash is embroidered the phrase “Duty To God” in 2-inch high red block letters.

Not to be a spoilsport, but you probably want to bounce that off someone in your local Council office to make sure that’s allowable under the insignia rules. My initial reaction is that it is not…

 

[otjm]

Just a little thought for anyone who cares: The most active Church which is involved with the Boy Scouts is the LDS, aka Mormons. It is part of their religious activities. It seems in so many parishes that the scouts are not active. I seriously doubt that it would hurt the kids, the parish or the Boy Scouts of America if the Catholic Church got a little more involved.

 

[1ke]

Unfortunately, there are many things today that used to be quite wholesome and now are not.

Girl Scouts, for example, has become a feminist organization. Many troops are now actively involved with places like Planned Parenthood and badges are earned for visiting a PP location and taking a tour or PP gives “talks” to the troops on sexual topics. The Girl Scout’s idea of “building character” these days is raising up the next generation of feminists.

Boy Scouts may not be there yet, but we must be ever vigilient.

There are Catholic alternative groups that parishes should encourage. I definitely agree that young boys and girls need good role models and activities.

 

[fgoodwin]

I think its a wonderful idea, but Ray is right – you should ask your DE or somebody at your local Council.

Only MBs may be worn on the front of the MB sash. Other patches may be worn on the back.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Those of us who have not abandoned Girl Scouts are trying to take it back. For example, our local council does not have anything related to PP or extreme feminism (as opposed to equal pay for equal work). In that vein, we only offer “the talk” for girls of a certain age and their mothers. Call us old fashioned here in the midwest.

I would also read what the National Federation on Catholic Youth Ministry has to say regarding the Girl Scouts and Catholic Moral Teaching:
http://www.nfcym.org/gscf/PositionPaperandStatementJuly2005.pdf

I would second Ray’s suggestion to double-check with the council for insignia rules. BSA is a tad, well not picky, but very correct in what sashes and when.

For other pertinent scout awards for Catholics (Eastern and Roman), see:
usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/religious.html#ECatholic
http://www.nccs-bsa.org/
http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/religious.html#Roman
http://www.nfcym.org/gscf/recognitions.htm
http://www.praypub.org/recognitions/girlscout.htm

Our parish is using these as a part of Boy and Girl scouts.

 

[rcwhiteh]

I think its a wonderful idea, but Ray is right – you should ask your DE or somebody at your local Council. Only MBs may be worn on the front of the MB sash. Other patches may be worn on the back.

If the boys were in uniform, I’d agree; however, the sashes are only to be worn when the boys are actively serving on the altar and are in their vestments.

We’re using the green MB sashes as a matter of convenience; the sizes are just right, and it’s easier to use them than it is to make up special ones. (I can’t sew worth a diddly. )

I did speak to someone at our local District office, but I don’t remember if it was the DE or not. Our Pack Committee chairman, a former Eagle Scout and a real stickler for the proper use of the uniform, was all excited about the idea; he even paid for two of the sashes to be made up.

I think we’re in pretty safe territory with this. The most important thing is that our parish recognizes the Scouts who serve God in such a direct fashion as Altar Servers, and that the parish promotes the Scout ideal of doing one’s duty to God. We want to promote a positive image of Scouting so that more boys will want to become involved and learn more about their obligations to the Faith.

 

[Sr_Sally]

If the boys were in uniform, I’d agree; however, the sashes are only to be worn when the boys are actively serving on the altar and are in their vestments.

I’m all for Scouting, but I see absolutely no reason why altar servers should wear Boy Scouting emblems. They are not there as scouts–they are there as altar servers. They can be recognized as scouts on Boy Scout Sunday, or perhaps for some services they render the parish as scouts (for example a gardening projector helping to paint the parish hall). Don’t confuse their role as an altar server with being a Boy Scout!

 

[edward_george]

I’m all for Scouting, but I see absolutely no reason why altar servers should wear Boy Scouting emblems. They are not there as scouts–they are there as altar servers. They can be recognized as scouts on Boy Scout Sunday, or perhaps for some services they render the parish as scouts (for example a gardening projector helping to paint the parish hall). Don’t confuse their role as an altar server with being a Boy Scout!

I agree here. I am a Scouter and an Altar Server. When I am in uniform wearing Scouting Insignia, I am fulfilling the first capacity. When I am vested in cassock and surplice, I fulfill the second. There isn’t much of a reason to cross the two over, aside from the recognition that you mention–and the Mass is not about recognition, serving the Mass is not about recognition. In the true spirit of service that being a server and a Scout entail, those serving at the altar should not seek recognition as servers or Scouts. Have them vest as normal, and if you wish to recognize the Scouts and Scouters present, do it at an appropriate time in the liturgy.

rcwhiteh:

I did speak to someone at our local District office, but I don’t remember if it was the DE or not. Our Pack Committee chairman, a former Eagle Scout and a real stickler for the proper use of the uniform, was all excited about the idea; he even paid for two of the sashes to be made up.

Oh yeah, one other thing–no one is a “former Eagle Scout” unless he has been stripped of the rank for some reason. Once an Eagle, always an Eagle. I would know–I was awarded mine in March.

-ACEGC

 

[fgoodwin]

Perhaps you might consider the NCCS patch on the sash, rather than a Boy Scout emblem – this way, there is no reason for concern by your local Council.

 

[Aramis]

The sash is dangerously close to th diaconal stole, both in official costume origin (roman authority symbol) and in look (Green stoles are worn during ordinary time). I’ve no problem with the sash on the BSA uniform, as the Roman custom evolved into the baldrics of office of many european countries, and from there to awards insignia (which is the BSA use of them.)

I think the fleur de lis & wolf on some other symbol would be far more appropriate. Perhaps wearing their neckerchief, instead, as it avoids the stole-like appearance of the sash, is a significant and visible symbol of the BSA, and is something already in their possession.

BTW, the GIRM prohibits the wear of stoles by those not ordained, as it is part of liturgical vestment of Apostolic authority.

 

[rwoehmke]

Just a little thought for anyone who cares: The most active Church which is involved with the Boy Scouts is the LDS, aka Mormons. It is part of their religious activities. It seems in so many parishes that the scouts are not active. I seriously doubt that it would hurt the kids, the parish or the Boy Scouts of America if the Catholic Church got a little more involved.

It is my understanding that about half of nthe boys registered as Scouts are in units sponsored by LDS. They run the bScout program a little different, but it is still Boy Scouting.

I also agree that Girl Scouts have drifted considerably in the last decade or two, but never the less, two girls in our parish just earned the Marian Medal. I was their counselor. This Fall I will offer Ad Altari Dei for the boys. Our K of C Council sponsors a Cub Pack and a Troop. Every Spring our Bishop gives out the awards in a ceremony at the Cathedral.

 

[puzzleannie]

had a chance to ask about this today, and in this diocese the servers would not be allowed to wear anything that resembles a stole. There are 2 or 3 variations of dress allowed for servers and nothing may be added (alb with cincture, choir dress etc.). Our bishop will not allow stoles for confirmation candidates either, for the same reason, confusion between lay roles and those of the ordained ministers, priests and deacons.

 

[rcwhiteh]

The sash is dangerously close to th diaconal stole, both in official costume origin (roman authority symbol) and in look (Green stoles are worn during ordinary time).

Not trying to split hairs here, but it’s not a stole, it’s a baldric. I think the difference - visually and symbolically - is significant enough.

I think the fleur de lis & wolf on some other symbol would be far more appropriate. Perhaps wearing their neckerchief, instead, as it avoids the stole-like appearance of the sash, is a significant and visible symbol of the BSA, and is something already in their possession.

Don’t think so; our servers wear albs, not cassocks and surplices. The neckerchiefs would be unwieldy.

I think the assertion that the Scout baldric somehow gets too close to the diaconal stole just doesn’t hold water. Shoot, I wore my K of C service baldric (minus the sword) plenty of times as an adult altar server. I’ve even served during Vespers and Confirmation with our Bishop, and had my baldric prominently displayed. (Got commended by the Bishop for the idea!)

Given the state of the world, I think that encouraging membership in an organization that teaches boys to recognize their duty to God is, by definition, a good thing. In a parish with maybe 300 families, we’ve got about 40 Scouts of all ranks, but so few of the boys were earning their religious medals that people were questioning the value of sponsoring the Scouts.

I made it my mission, following my Wood Badge training, to promote religious achievements and tie the award in some way to serving the Church. I also wanted the parish to be able to recognize that their Scouts were living up to their obligations, not just as Catholics but as Scouts. That’s how the idea of the baldrics came about.

A bit on the edge? Well, maybe; if the Bishop decides that we’ve stepped over the line, we’ll save them for Scout Sunday. I doubt that there will be anything said at all. Maybe we’re sticking our necks out, but you can’t win by a nose if you don’t.

 

[drafdog]

My suggestion is that you have each altar server who is a Scout earn his Ad Altare Dei award. Then have a sash (baldric) made of an appropriate color with the words “Ad Altare Dei” emblazoned on the sash. This way you avoid conflict with Scouting uniform regulations, and clerical vestiment regulations while at the same time honoring their status as Scouts honored with the religious award of their denomination.

Matthew

Former Scout, Asst. Scoutmaster, altar boy