Boycotts and Obligations

[S_V7]

fightpp.org/show.cfm?page=economic

Reading this got me thinking more about where my family, friends and I spend our money and after some research I’ve found that many of the products we use come from companies that support the murderous planned parenthood. In particular Time Warner, Microsoft, Girl Scouts, Johnson & Johnson, Walt Disney, and Mercy Corps which I beleive runs sites like thehungersite.com, childhealthsite.com etc. (though I’m not 100% sure , it’s listed here plannedparenthood.org/ppcw/files/ColumbiaWillamette/Matching_gift_companies.pdf. I’ve told my family and some friends about it and some think I’m taking it too far, but then again shouldn’t we all? Myspace and itunes also seem to be in on this horror rockforlifecc.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10.I get Mother Angelica podcasts from itunes and talk to friends on myspace, to continue to do that would likely burden my conscience too much. Is there a moral obligation to boycotts? I know that I won’t be able to “get them all” (Microsoft comes to mind), but other’s like myspace and itunes I could give up, though it would be hard, but for a baby why not?
Would it be ok to continue using these products knowing that some form of support would somehow go to killing innocent children? (i.e pennies from that 1 song bought off itunes could complete the payment of 1 abortion ) My conscience won’t let me and the phrase “better safe than sorry” plays over and over in my head. How does one decide which products to boycott and whicn to continue purchasing, if any should be purchased? And is there a moral obligation to let others now of the crimes being committed by these companies? Today I told some people about the donation disney and the girl scouts make to pp and some people gave me odd and suprised looks. Should I send emails to everyone, lists? I can just imagine telling everyone to please delete their myspace account, is there an obligation to this? How should it be done?

Another phrases in my head: small decisions can have big (pehaps horrrific) consequences

Any thoughts?

 

[ribozyme]

fightpp.org/show.cfm?page=economic

Reading this got me thinking more about where my family, friends and I spend our money and after some research I’ve found that many of the products we use come from companies that support the murderous planned parenthood. In particular Time Warner, Microsoft, Girl Scouts, Johnson & Johnson, Walt Disney, and Mercy Corps which I beleive runs sites like thehungersite.com, childhealthsite.com etc. (though I’m not 100% sure , it’s listed here plannedparenthood.org/ppcw/files/ColumbiaWillamette/Matching_gift_companies.pdf. I’ve told my family and some friends about it and some think I’m taking it too far, but then again shouldn’t we all? Myspace and itunes also seem to be in on this horror rockforlifecc.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10.I get Mother Angelica podcasts from itunes and talk to friends on myspace, to continue to do that would likely burden my conscience too much. Is there a moral obligation to boycotts? I know that I won’t be able to “get them all” (Microsoft comes to mind), but other’s like myspace and itunes I could give up, though it would be hard, but for a baby why not?
Would it be ok to continue using these products knowing that some form of support would somehow go to killing innocent children? (i.e pennies from that 1 song bought off itunes could complete the payment of 1 abortion ) My conscience won’t let me and the phrase “better safe than sorry” plays over and over in my head. How does one decide which products to boycott and whicn to continue purchasing, if any should be purchased? And is there a moral obligation to let others now of the crimes being committed by these companies? Today I told some people about the donation disney and the girl scouts make to pp and some people gave me odd and suprised looks. Should I send emails to everyone, lists? I can just imagine telling everyone to please delete their myspace account, is there an obligation to this? How should it be done?

Another phrases in my head: small decisions can have big (pehaps horrrific) consequences

Any thoughts?

Off topic, but someone relevant…

do you boycott chocolate? I do not mean “fair-trade” chocolate though. Some chocolate is produced through the labor of slaves in contrast to embryos and fetuses who do not have the capacity to suffer.

 

[S_V7]

No, but I could.

though grocery shopping is a bit out of my hands and my parents already seem to think I’m getting obsessed.

 

[ribozyme]

No, but I could.

though grocery shopping is a bit out of my hands and my parents already seem to think I’m getting obsessed.

The reason I ask because I somewhat abide by the stereotype that Catholics are myopic because they focus on issues such as abortion while being oblivious to more egregious injustices.

Here is something on it:
salon.com/news/cookie756.html?http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2003/02/14/chocolate/index.html

Unfortunately, I cannot do anything to solve that problem, but the best I can do is not support it financially.

I also boycott meat and dairy, unfortunately, I could not find a vegan source for the long chain (DHA c-22 /EPA c-20) omega-3 fatty acids that is accessable to me. I do think animals suffer too, but I only occasionally eat salmon (and fish oil supplements) because I want to live long enough to see the end of poverty and other forms of misery which might happen with more powerful technology in my lifetime. The problem is in order to witness this event, I need to be alive and it might not happen until many decades. However, technology has to be used prudent and we need to make sure it benefits the poor or else it would not solve inequality.

 

[S_V7]

I somewhat abide by the stereotype that Catholics are myopic because they focus on issues such as abortion while being oblivious to more egregious injustices.

perhaps but not necessarily true.

is the murder of countless children not a gravely egregious injustice?

 

[ribozyme]

perhaps but not necessarily true.

is the murder of countless children not a gravely egregious injustice?

Sorry, here is the working link…

dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2003/02/14/chocolate/index.html

I presume you are talking about abortion when you mention “murder.” The children you refer to do not have interests, thus cannot suffer within a utilitarian ethical framework. In contrast, those who are in Africa can suffer and experience a life of despair and despondency.

 

[S_V7]

I don’t mean to come off as rude, but murder is murder. A week old child may not enjoy rock collecting, yet that does not mean he won’t undergo the agony caused by murder . People do suffer and we should all be zealous about many causes, but sadly, many aren’t, myself included. I can’t solve the world’s problems but I can make a small precious dent by denying my money and service to certain companies. My question is where (if any) line should be drawn concerning this, and if an obligation exists to let others know of the atrocities being supported by certain companies. If so, to what lenghts should one go to inform people about it, is there any limit to them?

 

[John12345]

Mercy Corps DOES NOT run the hungersite.com (and anyway, is it really a bad thing to feed the needy?). Mercy Corps receives funding from the hungersite to feed starving people around the world (just read the information on the hunger site about how they help). They are a respected humanitarian organization with great moral and ethical values and I myself donate to them. Please research your assumptions before you post mis-truths about such great organizations like Mercy Corps.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

S-V7:

First let us be perfectly clear, yes abortion is murder. It is no less wrong to kill an 8 week old fetus than it is to kill an 8 week old baby.The fact that the law prosecutes teen age mothers who murder their newborn infant but allow as legal a partial birth abortion of a nine month fetus boggles all common sense.

Nevertheless, that being said, let us look at the issue you have raised about boycotting companies and products. Suppose there is a company that is an international multi-billion dollar corporation. It makes thousands of different products under hundreds of different brand names by dozens of different companies. Now that international corporation gives money to planned parenthood and abortions-R-us. It also gives money to Catholic Charities, Feed the Poor, the Salvation Army, Save Ethiopia, and Good Will Industries as well as many other charities.

First off, even if you found out that some of the profits of this hypothetical international corporation went to pay for abortions, you would never be able to discover how many or which companies it owns and which brand names they manufacture, and which products are sold under those brand names. The U.S. government has thousands of attorneys who 24/7 try to sort through these things just to determine liability for pollution and tax issues and often they fail to discover these convoluted successorship issues. So you manage to deprive i-tunes of a few cents, but it will impact them not at all. And to add insult to injury, for all you know, the few cents that you deprived them of may have been the pennies that would have gone to one of their many other charities that you would whole heartedly endorse.

Everytime you buy anything, ANYTHING, made in China you are supporting abortion indirectly. Have you ever made a concerted effort NOT to buy Chinese goods? Trust me on this, it isn’t possible.

My advice to you is this. Stop making yourself crazy by trying to bouycott companies who support abortion - unless they are totally blatant about it. Instead, make it a point to financially support pro-life groups. More importantly, if you are serious about stopping abortion, join a pro-life group and make time to spend praying the rosary in front of planned parenthood facilities on a regular schedule.

 

[Sr_Sally]

My advice to you is this. Stop making yourself crazy by trying to bouycott companies who support abortion - unless they are totally blatant about it. Instead, make it a point to financially support pro-life groups. More importantly, if you are serious about stopping abortion, join a pro-life group and make time to spend praying the rosary in front of planned parenthood facilities on a regular schedule.

This is excellent advice. It also has the benefit of being pro-active rather than reactive. And it is certainly easier to bring up your prayerful afternoon in front of the PP clinic and encourage others to join you there than to barge into someone’s pantry and scold them about the items found there.

 

[S_V7]

Mercy Corps DOES NOT run the hungersite.com (and anyway, is it really a bad thing to feed the needy?). Mercy Corps receives funding from the hungersite to feed starving people around the world (just read the information on the hunger site about how they help). They are a respected humanitarian organization with great moral and ethical values and I myself donate to them. Please research your assumptions before you post mis-truths about such great organizations like Mercy Corps.

Can you pleases provide a link for this? If it is correct then I am terribly sorry. It’s frustrating that I can’t find an accurate, concrete list of obvious pp supporters ( I know there’s one online to order but my parents aren’t too keen on online shopping) and the suspicions has been driving me insane, not to mention the strong moral obligation I feel to let others know about those companies that are obvious supporters. I’ve already told some friends and I feel some think me a controling fanatic ( “shouldn’t tell me what to do” kind of feeling). I have a tendancy to see the chain like consequences of my actions ( i.e if I don’t pick up that candy wrapper off the floor, someone might slip and break their neck, if I don’t tell this person about such company, they may never know the murder it supports). I do feel I may be taking it a bit too much at times, again if even possible, but I’d like to speak with my parish priest before I continue to use products from shady companies.

 

[S_V7]

Please research your assumptions before you post mis-truths about such great organizations like Mercy Corps.

Mercy Corps is listed here on matching companies.

plannedparenthood.org/ppcw/files/ColumbiaWillamette/Matching_gift_companies.pdf

The link comes from the first item here, which has says it was last updated 2007-11-09

search.plannedparenthood.org/search?q=matching+companies&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&proxyreload=1&site=default_collection&proxyreload=1

 

[rwoehmke]

Can you pleases provide a link for this? If it is correct then I am terribly sorry. It’s frustrating that I can’t find an accurate, concrete list of obvious pp supporters ( I know there’s one online to order but my parents aren’t too keen on online shopping) and the suspicions has been driving me insane, not to mention the strong moral obligation I feel to let others know about those companies that are obvious supporters. I’ve already told some friends and I feel some think me a controling fanatic ( “shouldn’t tell me what to do” kind of feeling). I have a tendancy to see the chain like consequences of my actions ( i.e if I don’t pick up that candy wrapper off the floor, someone might slip and break their neck, if I don’t tell this person about such company, they may never know the murder it supports). I do feel I may be taking it a bit too much at times, again if even possible, but I’d like to speak with my parish priest before I continue to use products from shady companies.

Dear Young one, a note of warning. It sounds to me from this post that you are having many scruples in your attempt to live a holy life. Use that very word next time you talk to a priest and be sure to tell him what you said in this post… It is not a sin, but it is a very difficult moral position to get into. I sign myself as someone who has been through it and will include you in my prayers.

 

[S_V7]

lol, scruples? Me? No…
Perhaps it is my scrupulous problem, and I plan to ask my parish priest soon. In the meantime though, I’ll avoid watching tv (time warner) and perhaps myspace? If anyone knows anything about it and a relationship between pp, please let me know since it’s great for communicating with friends and it’s something I feel I can use to share my faith. All I could really find about it was that link in my first post.

Instead, make it a point to financially support pro-life groups. More importantly, if you are serious about stopping abortion, join a pro-life group and make time to spend praying the rosary in front of planned parenthood facilities on a regular
schedule.

I don’t really know about any pro-life groups in my area, but joining one would be a very good idea, as well as praying in front of pp facility (though thankfully I don’t believe there are any in my city…I would have to check)

Thank you for your prayers

 

[John12345]

Here’s the link to the description of what the hungersite is: thehungersite.com/clickToGive/aboutus.faces;jsessionid=7D9A1BDD0A446231456DBB7872F2B164.ctgProd02?siteId=1&link=ctg_ths_aboutus_from_home_leftnav

Here is the blurb about how Mercy Corps is associated:
“The staple food funded by clicks at The Hunger Site is paid for by site sponsors and distributed to those in need by Mercy Corps and America’s Second Harvest. 100% of sponsor advertising fees goes to our charitable partners. Funds are split between these organizations and go to the aid of hungry people in over 74 countries, including those in Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Latin America and North America.”

And that PP link is for companies that have matching gift programs, not necessarily organizations that specifically and fundamentally support PP. Mercy Corps is an international humanitarian organization and has no program associations with PP.

 

[S_V7]

And to add insult to injury, for all you know, the few cents that you deprived them of may have been the pennies that would have gone to one of their many other charities that you would whole heartedly endorse.

something that stuck with me from here

fightpp.org/show.cfm?page=economic

Corporate leaders often claim they also support Christian or other good causes. This is often true and they should be lauded for it. The corporation is being boycotted because of the evil that is being done, not the good. Despite the insinuation by the corporations, the good does not excuse or counterbalance the evil.

 

[S_V7]

Another thought, rather unsettling for me.

Anyone who participates in an abortion is excommunicated right?

Please correct me if I’m wrong. Wouldn’t using products from these companies indirectly fullfill that somehow?

I know it sound far off but does it not have *some *truth?

A fast response would be appreciated, this is really starting to bother me

 

[Brendan]

Another thought, rather unsettling for me.

Anyone who participates in an abortion is excommunicated right?

Please correct me if I’m wrong. Wouldn’t using products from these companies indirectly fullfill that somehow?

I know it sound far off but does it not have *some *truth?

A fast response would be appreciated, this is really starting to bother me

No, there is Formal participation, where someone directly commits an abortion ( the woman and the abortionsit). There is also another class of particpation called Immediate Material Particpation, where someone drives someone to the abortion clinic, and finally Indirect Material Participation, which would be the guy who build the car.

The Formal and Immediate Material particpants are excommunicated, the Indirect Material Particpant has no moral culpability, unless he specificaly built the car to drive people to abortion clinics.

I heard about this from Fr. Frank Pavone himself on the radio.

To use the guy on who built the car. It stands to reason that some of the cars he builds will, in fact, be uses to drive people to abortion clincs. So can the guy keep his job if that is the case.

The answer is yes.

The vast majority of the companies listed are “Matching Gift” companies. In other words, when one of their employees donates money to a registered 501(C3) charity, they will match a certain percentage to the same org. This could be the local Catholic soup kitchen, or it could be PP.

The Church does not have a problem with such companies.

Likewise, suppose there is an employee of a company that donates part of the wages to PP. Or a stockholder that donates their dividend check to PP. Cases like this would be true for almost every single large company on the planet.

Fr. Pavone didn’t have a problem with matching gift companies, he didn’t have a problem with owning stock in a company when some of the other stockholders might be PP doners.

All of that was indirect participation and not immoral in Catholic Moral Theology, any more so that having every assembly worker at GM or Ford excommunicated because they built a car that was used to drive someone to an abortion clinic.

So in other words. Lets say you are in the market for a widget. WidgetCorp makes the widget you want to buy. They also have a matching gift program for their employess. This program provides funding for several hundred registered charities, via matched employee donations; some of their employees have chosen to donate to PP, so some of WidgetCorp profits go to PP

Your purchase of a widget would be a very indirect material cooperation, which is permissiable.

You can chose to buy a widget from WidgetCorp without moral issue.

Fr. Pavone really reidterated that it is impossible to get away from indirect material cooperation. In fact, most of us, in one way shape or form do it regularly.

Some of which is even mandated by the Church. A great example would be a grocery store.

Lets say that you owned a grocery store. A known abortionist came in and was looking to buy food. Under Catholic Social teaching, one has a right to food. You, as a Catholic would be morally required to sell the abortionist food. That, though is also a indirect material cooperation. But Catholic moral thought requires it.

 

[maria29]

Here’s the link to the description of what the hungersite is: thehungersite.com/clickToGive/aboutus.faces;jsessionid=7D9A1BDD0A446231456DBB7872F2B164.ctgProd02?siteId=1&link=ctg_ths_aboutus_from_home_leftnav

Here is the blurb about how Mercy Corps is associated:
“The staple food funded by clicks at The Hunger Site is paid for by site sponsors and distributed to those in need by Mercy Corps and America’s Second Harvest. 100% of sponsor advertising fees goes to our charitable partners. Funds are split between these organizations and go to the aid of hungry people in over 74 countries, including those in Africa, Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Latin America and North America.”

And that PP link is for companies that have matching gift programs, not necessarily organizations that specifically and fundamentally support PP. Mercy Corps is an international humanitarian organization and has no program associations with PP.

Thank you for saying this. I wonder if most people even understand how matching gifts work? Its the employees that the corporations and foundations that usually pick a nonprofit and then the company matches the funds to the selected nonprofit.

 

[KathleenElsie]

When I see that a person can decide which of the charities a company “gives” to it just makes me less likely to do business with them. My reasoning is this:

For every $1 I say to give to charity A the company then is free to give to charity B and still claim they are morally balanced in their giving. The company can say see how good I am (United Way as an example) and still promote the culture of death with no consequences.

So any money spent by us should be spent with the best available knowledge as to where it goes to. If you would not support companies that use slave labor (this is a boycott) then why not use that same power to not support other things your well informed conscience tells you is wrong?

Just a thought.