Boycotts and Obligations

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Fr. Pavone seems to have a sensible understanding of this problem. A company that is a direct producer of porn, or a firm directly involved in doing abortions I can understand, but do we boycott a company who makes surgical instruments because some of them will find their way into abortion clinics? Seems like in many cases the alternative is to dress in only cast off clothes and eat bark to make some boycotts effective.

We receive a large portion of our manufactured goods from China, a country that not only tolerates abortion, but as a policy requires it in cases of a couple already having one child. Try to run a household or a business without buying any Chinese imports. It can possibly be done, but one would twist oneself into a pretzel in doing so.

What this young person is trying to do is certainly admirable, but she is not morally required nor does she have the tools to do the job. Adults who encourage her in her current struggles at this time considering the constraints she works under are not doing her or the pro-life cause any favors. March and pray at a PP clinic, sure, but the other stuff? Lord have mercy!
 
I see your point. I know not to support companies that are obvious supporters of abortion. It’s after that that gets a bit harder to decide. For instance, I know that itunes and myspace were “notable partners” in that american idol gives back thing, rockforlifecc.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10.I which gave money to UNICEF and Save the Children, which promote killing children. I know it’s indirect, but it’s much more direct than making surgical instruments. Would this be reason enough to forgo my myspace and itunes accounts? In the case of myspace, I don’t actually give money to them but use their services, which translates to me supporting them and spreading their business, no? How direct does a corporation have to be in order to obligate a boycott? Surely someone with an informed conscience can’t continue to give money to abortion supporters?
 
Off topic, but someone relevant…

do you boycott chocolate? I do not mean “fair-trade” chocolate though. Some chocolate is produced through the labor of slaves in contrast to embryos and fetuses who do not have the capacity to suffer.
First of all, embryos and fetus’s do have the capacity to suffer. I would recommend watching a video called “Silent Scream.” The URL is provided below. It shows an abortion through an ultrasound machine. As the baby is stabbed, you can see its mouth open up in a painful scream. Also, you incorrectly equalized slave labor to abortion. Abortion is far more heinous than any slavery yet devised. Over 40 million babies have been murdered so far in the U.S. And yes, it is murder, and that has been clearly defined by the pope, the Catechism (CCC #2271 & 2322), and the Didache. The nice thing about posting on a Catholic forum is that it is mainly read by Catholics, who all accept the teachings of the church. (Although so many don’t know what they actually are. But hey, I doubt many people actually want to be heretics.)

Silent Scream
silentscream.org/
 
Mercy Corps DOES NOT run the hungersite.com (and anyway, is it really a bad thing to feed the needy?). Mercy Corps receives funding from the hungersite to feed starving people around the world (just read the information on the hunger site about how they help). They are a respected humanitarian organization with great moral and ethical values and I myself donate to them. Please research your assumptions before you post mis-truths about such great organizations like Mercy Corps.
On a related thread about boycotting Starbucks over alleged PP donations, a poster linked a list posted by the Columbia-Willamette PP listing employers with matching contributions programs, and MercyCorps was on that list. Whether any employee at MercyCorps actually donated and got the employer match, I am not sure. I am not sure if the list was of opportunities or actual contributors because it’s been a while since I looked. But PP had listed them.

Just for clarification.
 
Oops, I didn’t read far enough through the thread. That same link was provided above. Looking at the document again, it is a list of companies with matching gift programs in the Columbia-Willamette PP service area; that list does not claim that any employee actually designated PP as their charity and that the employer matched it.

Many secular employers would probably say you the employee can select any 501(c)3 nonprofit charitable organization. However, I can’t imagine church-affiliated organizations like MercyCorps would permit matched donations to organizations that directly contradict its moral teachings.

So that list isn’t as damning as its poster thinks it is.

My intentions of moral purity through boycotting wither and die when I look at that list. I am a customer of so many of those organizations, that I am not going to overhaul my life on the off chance that an employee of that company in the Columbia-Willamette area might choose to donate to PP and get an employer match.

Like when this was posted about Starbucks, and I actually went to the Starbucks corporate website and read their charitable foundation and their corporate social responsibility documents, and I was very impressed. PP was nowhere on the list. But lots of organizations promoting service to disadvantaged youth, literacy, the arts, were on there, and those are things I support too. It firmed my resolve to drink as much Starbucks as possible, whenever possible. 😃
 
No, there is Formal participation, where someone directly commits an abortion ( the woman and the abortionsit). There is also another class of particpation called Immediate Material Particpation, where someone drives someone to the abortion clinic, and finally Indirect Material Participation, which would be the guy who build the car.

The Formal and Immediate Material particpants are excommunicated, the Indirect Material Particpant has no moral culpability, unless he specificaly built the car to drive people to abortion clinics.

I heard about this from Fr. Frank Pavone himself on the radio.

To use the guy on who built the car. It stands to reason that some of the cars he builds will, in fact, be uses to drive people to abortion clincs. So can the guy keep his job if that is the case.

The answer is yes.

The vast majority of the companies listed are “Matching Gift” companies. In other words, when one of their employees donates money to a registered 501(C3) charity, they will match a certain percentage to the same org. This could be the local Catholic soup kitchen, or it could be PP.

The Church does not have a problem with such companies.

Likewise, suppose there is an employee of a company that donates part of the wages to PP. Or a stockholder that donates their dividend check to PP. Cases like this would be true for almost every single large company on the planet.

Fr. Pavone didn’t have a problem with matching gift companies, he didn’t have a problem with owning stock in a company when some of the other stockholders might be PP doners.

All of that was indirect participation and not immoral in Catholic Moral Theology, any more so that having every assembly worker at GM or Ford excommunicated because they built a car that was used to drive someone to an abortion clinic.

So in other words. Lets say you are in the market for a widget. WidgetCorp makes the widget you want to buy. They also have a matching gift program for their employess. This program provides funding for several hundred registered charities, via matched employee donations; some of their employees have chosen to donate to PP, so some of WidgetCorp profits go to PP

Your purchase of a widget would be a very indirect material cooperation, which is permissiable.

You can chose to buy a widget from WidgetCorp without moral issue.

Fr. Pavone really reidterated that it is impossible to get away from indirect material cooperation. In fact, most of us, in one way shape or form do it regularly.

Some of which is even mandated by the Church. A great example would be a grocery store.

Lets say that you owned a grocery store. A known abortionist came in and was looking to buy food. Under Catholic Social teaching, one has a right to food. You, as a Catholic would be morally required to sell the abortionist food. That, though is also a indirect material cooperation. But Catholic moral thought requires it.
Is there a link to somwhere that talks about this?

Thanks
 
I mean this seriously- I am not saying this to be cheeky or sarcastic at all:

Much of the thoughts and actions you describe here about yourself (the example about having to pick up a wrapper on the floor so others can’t slip and break their necks) is a serious red flag for OCD. It isn’t always about fanatical handwashing or “germphobia”- moral and religious thoughts that imagine everything to be terribly sinful, “overresponsibility” and the like, are classic symptoms, too. Please check into help. It’s pointless to let yourself suffer like this.

ocfoundation.org

Check it out. Arm yourself with info, and get the help you need.
 
I mean this seriously- I am not saying this to be cheeky or sarcastic at all:

Much of the thoughts and actions you describe here about yourself (the example about having to pick up a wrapper on the floor so others can’t slip and break their necks) is a serious red flag for OCD. It isn’t always about fanatical handwashing or “germphobia”- moral and religious thoughts that imagine everything to be terribly sinful, “overresponsibility” and the like, are classic symptoms, too. Please check into help. It’s pointless to let yourself suffer like this.

ocfoundation.org

Check it out. Arm yourself with info, and get the help you need.
I’m pretty certain now that I have OCD, scrupulosity and anxiety issues. I’ve actually been getting better but every now and then I relapse.
Thanks for the site, I’ll look into it.👍
 
Boy Scouts and Girls Scouts are NOT THE SAME!

They support two totally different sets of organizations and the Boy Scouts to my knowledge have never supported Planned Parenthood.

Girls Scouts have been known to not only support them, but actually teaching material is given for young girls in the scouting program.

Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts are DIFFERENT…just so you know. HUGE differences, plus they don’t sell cookies…just the popcorn.
 
This thread is exactly what I’ve been needing to read. Thanks especially to Brendan and Marsha Adams for the enlightening posts.
I’m pretty certain now that I have OCD, scrupulosity and anxiety issues. I’ve actually been getting better but every now and then I relapse.
Thanks for the site, I’ll look into it.👍
Sounds like we’re in the same boat. I’ll do my best to keep you in my prayers. Daily Mass helps immensely!
 
First of all, embryos and fetus’s do have the capacity to suffer. I would recommend watching a video called “Silent Scream.” The URL is provided below. It shows an abortion through an ultrasound machine. As the baby is stabbed, you can see its mouth open up in a painful scream. Also, you incorrectly equalized slave labor to abortion. Abortion is far more heinous than any slavery yet devised. Over 40 million babies have been murdered so far in the U.S. And yes, it is murder, and that has been clearly defined by the pope, the Catechism (CCC #2271 & 2322), and the Didache. The nice thing about posting on a Catholic forum is that it is mainly read by Catholics, who all accept the teachings of the church. (Although so many don’t know what they actually are. But hey, I doubt many people actually want to be heretics.)

Silent Scream
silentscream.org/
Actually, this is controversial. Disclaimer: I mention this because I personally like to hear both sides of every issue so that I can make an educated decision and it in that spirit that I am posting this information. I am not personally contradicting, attacking or intending to offend anyone with the posting of this information. See below:

violence.de/prescott/humanist/abortion.html

*Dr. Michael Bennett, chairman of the neuroscience department of Albert Einstein Medical School, when asked whether a brain exists at conception and whether there can be a person without a brain, answered with an unequivocal “no!” to both questions. It was pointed out that the human brain has approximately 100 billion brain cells and that there are an estimated 100 trillion connections between neurons in the brain. This extraordinary neuronal “interconnectivity” provides the neurostructural foundation for complex perceptions and “personhood” and takes many months and often years to fully develop and function.

Dr. Patricia Goldman-Rakic, professor of neuroscience at Yale University Medical School, emphasizes that brain neurons do not exist prior to four weeks in utero, that the peak period for brain neuron development is from two to five months in utero, and that the existence of neurons, per se, does not indicate the existence of a developed, functioning brain. Once the brain cell is born, there is a long process of migration of brain cells that occurs mainly from two to six months in utero during which the brain cells move (migrate) to their final destination in the brain. An even longer process of development makes possible the “interconnectivity” of brain cells which is absolutely essential for sensation, perception, conscious experience, thought, and behavior. The formation of brain synapses that make possible brain cell communication does not begin until about the third month in utero, and most are formed after birth.

Dr. Clifford Grobstein, former chairman of the Department of Biology at Stanford University and now at the University of California at San Diego, highlights the complexity of brain development by noting that the brain docs not develop uniformly. For example, certain parts of the brain develop earlier and some later. The cerebral neocortex that is responsible for complex perceptions is one of the last to develop.

Dr. Dominick Purpura, dean of Albert Einstein Medical School, has been studying human brain development since 1974 with his research on mental retardation. Dr. Purpura emphasizes that there are a minimum number of neurons and synaptic connections that are necessary before the qualities of “humanness” and “personhood” can be developed and that this capacity begins to occur in the middle of the last trimester. Thus, about twenty-eight to thirty weeks in utero is the minimal time for the beginning of this capacity—“It can’t begin earlier,” according to Dr. Purpura*.

The article goes on to say that it impossible to feel pain without a developed brain and nervous system. You should know that this article was written as a response to “Silent Scream” so it is indeed the point of view from the other side/pro-choice position.
 
I simply don’t join in boycotts. For example I am listening to my ipod right now with itunes on it. I enjoy a good cup of Starbucks coffee now and then, although the price is steep. And I am not afraid to shop at Target or be in the market for a Ford vehicle. If only Ford would make better vehicles.
 
I simply don’t join in boycotts. For example I am listening to my ipod right now with itunes on it. I enjoy a good cup of Starbucks coffee now and then, although the price is steep. And I am not afraid to shop at Target or be in the market for a Ford vehicle. If only Ford would make better vehicles.
😃 I did see a Ford truck towing a Chevy truck though. 😛

I also don’t participate in boycotts…at least not formally. I didn’t take my kids to see The Golden Compass, but that wasn’t a boycott…just good taste.

I guess if a company were really egregious with their support of evil or virently (sp?) anti-Catholic, I would boycott them.
 
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