Boyfriend Dilemma

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lisa238

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I am in a stable and healthy relationship that is hopefully and eventually headed toward marriage, but there are a few things that my boyfriend and I are just having some trouble resolving. We are in constant debate over physical boundaries, and while we are in agreement about the present and where we want to end up, we can’t agree on the timing of everything in the middle. Specifically, the issues include revealing too much skin and extremely passionate kissing. We both know these things are a long way off, we just need to settle on how long.

I am having some trouble defending my view points on some sexual behaviors, specifically with the timing. The main problem is that he isn’t religious, but interestingly enough, he agrees on keeping sex open to life all the time and reserved for after marriage. I just need some strong arguments and reasoning to convince him to wait on other things that are reserved for marriage that don’t solely rely on Church teachings, although another interesting thing is that he did say biblical quotations would convince him.

I guess the spiritual part of our relationship needs a little work, but we have been making progress, since at the beginning he didn’t believe God existed at all. It just amazes me how he wants nothing to do with the Catholic Church but he is completely willing to follow one of the teachings that a lot of people have a hard time with.

Thanks for any advice, and I apologize if I didn’t post this on the appropriate forum.
 
Huh…Well, I don’t think you should press on the marriage thing to heavily until he’s well and truly Catholic.

But um…

“When in doubt, DON’T!”

That little niggle? That little doubt? That quesy little “Should we?” Or “Is this…?”

Yeah, that’s all the workings of God. And His Holy Spirit. And your Guardian Angel.

So, “Hands off, perv!” you must shout!😛

If he loves you, he’ll understand.
(Some day, they’ll learn to direct their questions to all but me!)
 
Sexually stimulating behaviours put people in risk of failing to keep their resolutions to abstain from premarital sex. It’s like making a resolution and then testing it - needlessly so.

It’s much more consequent to go all the way and simply put off sexual interaction for marriage.
 
Tell him that no means no. That is simplistic, but, for a completely secular person, there is no real reasoning on this topic.

If he will listen to the Bible, look up the NT passage on lust and see what Christ said.

Best thing, find someone who shares your faith to share your life.
 
Been there, done that. I see a lot of my own story in your post.

My first reaction is, “Why is, ‘I don’t want to do that’ not a good enough reason?” Heck, it worked with my fiance. 😛 I agree with the previous poster…if he loves you, he’ll understand.

Speaking from experience, too much “touchy-feely” behavior, even if it never leads to sex, can lead to a lot of things which you might later regret. If you reserve that kind of intimacy for marriage you will both be much happier and better off.

Think about it this way: Would an alcoholic resolve never to touch another drink, then go hang out at bars and frat parties where he would constantly be offered alcohol? Not that I want to compare your boyfriend to an addict, but as a man he should understand how very powerful the visual and physical cues are to him. He should gratefully accept your help in minimizing these cues. 😉

I believe you can find support in Church teaching for this, as we are called to avoid both sin and near occasions of sin. As far as Biblical quotations, well, prudence is a virtue, and there are many verses about the need for modesty.
 
If he doesn’t share your deepest beliefs this is only the beginning of your conflicts. Raising kids will probably be harder yet, especially teaching them about the world.
 
If you’re not comfortable with it, that should be the end of it. When ever something happens between me and my boyfriend that I thought was too much, I told him so, and he would instantly agree to not do it anymore, whatever ‘it’ may be. No arguments, no questions, no nothing. He trusts my instincts. Of course, we’re both Catholic, and we both want to save sex for marriage. You could just tell him that anything that sexually stimulates you should be saved for marriage, and be comfortable enough with him to be able to say ‘stop that, don’t do that again, that’s too much for me’ if something does happen that affects you. I dunno, I don’t see why there has to be Church teachings or Bible quotes involved if you’re simply not comfortable with a certain action. 🤷
 
Thank you for all your replies, but I am looking more for *why *certain behaviors are wrong so that I can explain it to him. He was raised Catholic, but he doesn’t have much faith because he was very poorly taught about the faith. To me it seems like he would believe if only he understood the Church more, since his views aren’t conflicting with the Church. It is mostly a matter of him not being familiar with what the Church teaches and where the teachings are coming from.

He never tries to go too far, and he always stops right away when I ask him to without complaint, I am just trying to help him understand my position. We are very open with each other emotionally, and we like to discuss our feelings and reasonings in more detail instead of simply leaving it at the level of comfortable vs. uncomfortable. I think he would get it and probably agree with me completely if I could just get some strong arguments for why it is wrong, which is why I was asking about that. Even if i don’t convince him that it is wrong, he will still not push me to do anything that I am not comfortable with, he just wants to understand why i believe it is wrong. I don’t want to just say because that is what the Church teaches, I wanted to be able to explain where that teaching is coming from. Perhaps I should post my original question on a different forum?
 
Maybe if you say “I believe that sexual expressions of love are sacred and reserved for marriage only. I do not want to engage in any sexual activity or any form of foreplay with you because I am not married to you. Why? Because that is what I believe.”
 
Matthew 5:27-28 may help:

You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’

But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Adultery is everything outside of the marriage bed. Even a look can be considered adulterous!

You can also use the beatitudes, particularly:
Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God.

You may want to take your boyfriend to Adoration and suggest he ask God what pure of heart really means.

Also, I hope you’ve checked out the resources on catholic.com, particularly Jason Evert’s talks (pureloveclub.com and there are some chastity episodes in the catholic answers live radio section). The ask him if he would listen to any of the shows/talks as this is what you believe.

Stay strong! Definitely don’t give in to any pressure, and build up your defense, but always respond in charity, love, and truth.
 
How about the fact that you could get pregnant? Are you both ready to raise a child?

Then, there are diseases…

Negative impact of premarital sex -

premaritalsex.info/regrets.htm

Rutgers study on cohabitation

marriage.rutgers.edu/

Frankly, because it is what you believe should be reason enough. Your faith should be important to him.
 
lisa238 said:
Thank you for all your replies, but I am looking more for *why *certain behaviors are wrong so that I can explain it to him. He was raised Catholic, but he doesn’t have much faith because he was very poorly taught about the faith. To me it seems like he would believe if only he understood the Church more, since his views aren’t conflicting with the Church. It is mostly a matter of him not being familiar with what the Church teaches and where the teachings are coming from.

He never tries to go too far, and he always stops right away when I ask him to without complaint, I am just trying to help him understand my position. We are very open with each other emotionally, and we like to discuss our feelings and reasonings in more detail instead of simply leaving it at the level of comfortable vs. uncomfortable. I think he would get it and probably agree with me completely if I could just get some strong arguments for why it is wrong, which is why I was asking about that. Even if i don’t convince him that it is wrong, he will still not push me to do anything that I am not comfortable with, he just wants to understand why i believe it is wrong. I don’t want to just say because that is what the Church teaches, I wanted to be able to explain where that teaching is coming from. Perhaps I should post my original question on a different forum?
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I’m assuming you’re not talking about sex here, as you mentioned you both agree on that and have reasons… As far as other behaviors go, things get fuzzy. Obviously, any form of co-masturbation is wrong, for pretty much the same reasons as sex outside of marriage is wrong. I can’t think of anything else that is explicitly taught by the Church as being wrong. If something tempts you, well, then there’s the reason right there: you don’t want to be tempted. And deliberately tempting someone to sin is, as far as I know, a sin in itself. Does that help?
 
OP mentioned passionate kissing as one problematic thing. Passionate kissing, open mouthed, with tongues, is foreplay. It stimulates and excites the sexual organs into a state of lubrication for females and erection for men. If you are not going to have sex, why have foreplay?

Revealing skin is a visual stimulation that serves to excite, and this excitement prepares the genitals for sex. If you are not going to have sex, why do you want to see each other naked?
 
lisa238 said:
Thank you for all your replies, but I am looking more for *why *certain behaviors are wrong so that I can explain it to him. He was raised Catholic, but he doesn’t have much faith because he was very poorly taught about the faith. To me it seems like he would believe if only he understood the Church more, since his views aren’t conflicting with the Church. It is mostly a matter of him not being familiar with what the Church teaches and where the teachings are coming from.

He never tries to go too far, and he always stops right away when I ask him to without complaint, I am just trying to help him understand my position. We are very open with each other emotionally, and we like to discuss our feelings and reasonings in more detail instead of simply leaving it at the level of comfortable vs. uncomfortable. I think he would get it and probably agree with me completely if I could just get some strong arguments for why it is wrong, which is why I was asking about that. Even if i don’t convince him that it is wrong, he will still not push me to do anything that I am not comfortable with, he just wants to understand why i believe it is wrong. I don’t want to just say because that is what the Church teaches, I wanted to be able to explain where that teaching is coming from. Perhaps I should post my original question on a different forum?
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Dang Lisa, you’re tryin to tell a mostly secular guy a good reason for not having sex, and I dunno how ya gonna do that. What are ya gonna appeal to?

You’re talkin about a guy who believes this is all their is. Heck if I thought like that, no telling how much I’d a got in too.
 
Wow, reading your story takes me back to last summer, I went through pretty much the exact same thing… My boyfriend and I were both very determined to save sex for marriage but we couldn’t agree on how physical we would allow ourselves to be with each other.

I can tell that you are looking for bible verses and particularly I’m sure teachings from the New Testament. In my Bible I actually have extra pages that talk specifically about the direct teaching and readings in the Bible. So here are some.

Signs that society is missing God’s message about sex are everywhere. Immodest dress, suggestive language, promiscuity, nudity and even pornography surround you in the world. And it doesn’t just happen in secret anymore, it has become a mainstream of sin through music, movies, and advertising. There is no wonder why here on earth today there are so many difficult forms of pressure to go farther than God wants you to with sex.

Sex or any kind of touchy feely contact is not trivial, it should not be taken lightly, and the pleasure that you feel from any kind of contact becomes immediate abuse when used outside of marriage and will always cause more discomfort mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and even physically than it would cause happiness.

The Bible says - The Lord said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and tell them: You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you once lived nor shall you do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you; do not conform to their customs. --Leviticus 18:1-3

“This is the will of God, your holiness: that you refrain from immorality.”–1 Thess 4:3
Even the movies you choose to watch and the music you listen to should be controlled and decided by this simple verse.

I very strongly suggest that you buy a Theology of the Body book or go to a Theology of the Body seminar together… Most of the questions that you have should be able to be answered in there. Pope John Paul II’s very serious message is the Theology of the Body is “Sexuality was created by God and finds a secret and sacred expression in marriage. Within married life, its purpose is to faciliate the creation of new life and to serve as the ultimate expression of love between husband and wife.”

Man and woman were created as a gift of love to each other.

Your virginity and in saying the word virginity I mean your whole hold of sexual communication and contact is like a locket. It is protected by a barrier that should never be trifled with even in the slightest. If you think of your virginity being more than something that is taken away from you during the process of sexual intercourse between man and woman but instead your virginity is that barrier of God’s plan for your intimacy level with another person.

Another way of looking at it is your “virginity” is that it is a seed that was planted into you the moment you were conceived… and when you think about planting a vegetable garden you have to wait until the time of harvest before you take the plant from the garden. You cannot touch it or do anything with it until the time of the harvest. Well your virginity can’t or should not be harvested until Marriage.

I hope that this helps… My next reply to this thread is a talk that I wrote when I was 14 and gave to my youth group.
 
Everyone in this world has had a crush on someone at one point in there life. God created us that way. Enough said.

We all know what the tingly warm feeling is when that cute guy/girl walks by or says something. They have to be the most amazing looking person ever.! The way they walk, talk, smile, and even the way they frown. They are just the most important thing to you at this time and you just can’t stop thinking about it.

But is it love.? Can you honestly say that oneday, you want to marry this person, have children with them, share a home with them, provide for them, and take care of them for the rest of your entire life.?

Not just until your out of highschool. Not just until your out of college. Not just until she comes to you and says “I’m pregnant.”

To be in love, is to honestly be able to say, “I Do.” I do want to marry you. I do want to have your children. I do want to share this home with you. I do want to finish highschool with you. I do want to finish college with you. I do want to live the rest of my life with you, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

Then and only then can you honestly say that you love someone.

You also need to realize, a relationship will never work until the end, unless you have Christ walking with you.

Some people might say that a human beings objective in life is to earn as much money possible before they die. Make it through college. Have kids and be able to send them to school. Lose your innocence before you die. Make it through Senior Prom. Get that awsome vehicle that you’ve always dreamed of getting.

There are all kinds of things that people have as there life’s objective. And these are most of them. But let me ask you this. Why try your hardest to get all the money in the world, when greed will earn you nothing but shame and pity? Do you really want people to see you as Mr. or Miss Scrouge? What use is getting an awsome vehicle when you have to spend all that money that you earned, to show off something that no one cares about? Whats so great about going to Senior Prom? Isn’t it just like any other highschool dance where the people that you want to hang out with you still won’t hang out with you, especially if your the one to win prom queen.

Now, the things like sending your kids off to school and making it through college are great achievements! But they should never be our life’s objective.

Christ, and Christ alone, is the key to success. Without him, you would not be reading this. He created you. And if there was no you, you wouldn’t be worried about any of this. God gave us the most wonderful gift anyone in the world could ever imagine. Can you think of what it is? He gave us his only begotten son. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the VIRGIN Mary and became man.

The word virgin brings me to a pause. Today, in the world of 2007 being a virgin is one of the lowest class things ever. Dumb,stupid,and sooo little kiddish.

But thats not true. Lets think about this for a minute. When your married, you can have sex with your spouse right. But only with your spouse, am I correct… (the reader says to themselves… yes nicole…)

Ok, so if your married, you are only suppost to have sex with your spouse. Your not even suppost to kiss or touch someone else in any kind of way if your married right. (the reader says to themselves…yes nicole…)

Ok. Well then what if I told you that you have been married all your life. It doesn’t matter whether you are a boy or a girl, you have been married your entire life. I know what your saying. You think I’m crazy. But I’m not. You have been married to Christ all your life. Deal with it. Its the truth whether you choose to believe it or not.

Therefore, as we agreed to before, your innocence or virginity belongs to HIM.

Its plain and simple. Thats how it is. But Christ is not your ordinary spouse. He wants you to be with someone else too. He went and he hid someone here on this Earth just for you. Only for you.

Gasps… You have no idea who this person is or how to find him… This is where Christ steps in again, in an almost bigger and more powerful way this time. You are now on your journey to find your TRUE LOVE. This is going to take lots of time.

P.S… just a little hint, you cannot find this person without Christ.

There will come some person that you will want to go out with and they are gonna want to go out with you… But, you have to think to yourself before hand. Is this a person that I am willing to spend the rest of my life with. If you think yes, and you want to try and see where it leads, then go for it. But remember, you are still physically married to Christ and your body belongs only to you and him. Also remember. Your objective in a relationship, is to try your hardest to bring that person closer to Christ. And if you are doing that and listening for God to tell you what to do, he will tell you the rest. But if you are not interested in the idea of oneday marrying this person, then obey your husband and find someone else. For your heart is your own, but it is shared with Christ, and he to must agree on your decisions.
 
Thank you to the OP for posting this!! I have 99% of this same situation, and I’m grateful to be able to read everyone’s advice as well. Unfortunately I haven’t been very good though, nor have I been very strong. My boyfriend and I have slipped many times but nonetheless I haven’t given up on us completely. I know he’s the one I’m going to marry; but I think we’ve got a long road ahead of us. The key to ask yourself is: are you willing to tread it? It’s so much easier to work things out, to raise children and all that with a guy who has the same understandings as you. And yet, sometimes we’re called to be with a certain person, because couples are meant to help bring each other closer to God. I believe I’m called to someday marry the guy I’m with now, despite our current problems in keeping our sexuality at bay. I know some people might protest, but I can see the potential we have if we can just punch through the difficulties. It’ll be hard, it’ll be a battle, and it’ll be long and tiring. But I’m willing to keep going back to God, and place our relationship in His hands, and to stay with the boyfriend I’m with. Because there are wonderful things that will happen too. What can I say? I love the man and love is, after all, a choice. 😃 I know that deep down we want what’s best for each other; I think we’ve just forgotten temporarily that what’s best for each other is not indulging in sexual desires but rather growing in God’s love and following His will.

I would highly suggest reading The Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. Please please please read it and have him read it too!! =D It basically says why certain actions are wrong, and why things are worth waiting for. It covers a lot of ground, and a lot of questions and arguments. My boyfriend read it, and he told me he wasn’t sure he agreed because the author, as he put it, was biased, though he knew of course it was a Catholic author writing for mostly a Catholic audience. I told him Jesus said he didn’t come for the righteous but for sinners, and that you don’t go to a botanist to learn about ornithology (study of birds). He couldn’t argue that one! 😃

So let’s both be strong okay? Keep praying for your boyfriend to understand, and to be open to God, and realize that somewhere in the future your man does understand, and he is open to God, and this is because God is outside of time and he answers all prayers. So somewhere in time, God has answered your prayers in the way that He knows is best. Course, we don’t know when this is, and we may not recognize when our prayers are being answered or even how. But don’t give up on God or yourself! If it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be, whether you marry him or someone else. If you end up marrying someone else, you won’t regret anything you might’ve done, and you’ll have had gained a strengthened resolve in your faith. If you marry him then you won’t regret giving him any part of yourself half-heartedly or reluctantly. Instead, you’ll be able to give yourself without feeling guilt or fear or sorrow afterwards. (Lol, this is much for myself as well as for you! :o )
I know you were asking for quotes and such, but I hope that book helps, and I hope that if nothing else, I helped to maybe boost your spirits 😛 Remember, God loves you more than anything! You are a princess because He is our King!

Sisters in Christ (and perhaps in situations Xp),
G. Rabbit

:knight2:
 
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