Bp O'Malley Will Include Women in Foot Wash

[4_marks]

HagiaSophia:

Boston Archbishop Sean O’Malley has decided to wash the feet of both women and men during this year’s Holy Thursday foot-washing ritual, a year after angering Catholic women by washing only men’s feet.

O’Malley’s decision, on which he consulted the Vatican, drew praise from advocates for a greater role for women in the Roman Catholic Church.

The ritual imitates Jesus’ washing of the feet of his disciples at the Last Supper and has been part of Holy Thursday liturgies since the 13th century.

latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-briefs20.4mar20,1,2099670.story?coll=la-headlines-nation

This is perfectly acceptable as women are counted among the “disciples” of Jesus, and Jesus washed His “disciples” feet. If, however, Jesus had established an ordinance and was conferring the office, he would have washed the feet only of His “Apostles.” Women, contrary to feminists and DaVinci Code experts, were NEVER counted among the Apostles of Jesus, which were limited to a group of 12 specifically and deliberately chosen men.

 

[4_marks]

moira:

James Akin explains it in his book ‘Mass Confusion’.

washing of women’s feet…conflicts with the rubrics for the Mass of Holy Thursday, which state,

…the washing of feet follows the homily. The men (veri) who have been chosen…

The Latin term used above indicates males only. When the term *veri* appears in Church documents, it indicates that the text is making a requirement for males and not females. If the text intends to include *either* a male or a female in a requirement, it uses a different Latin term, such as *homo*, which is not gender specific.

Jimmy Akin is not the Church, and does not officially speak for the Church any more than you or I do. I have found that he has a tendency to be rather gruff and inflexible with some people on the Q & A shows. Must be a Texan thing.

 

[Pandora]

Elizabeth Anne you are so far off the mark you are in Rhode Island.
O’Malley is a nice guy and all but too soft.
My Church and a number of other’s closing do not have financial dificulties. In fact we have more vocations than any other Church. The problem is they all go to conservative orders like the FSSP. Lennon turned down the FSSP who were willing to give us 2 priest’s and then lied to us and says we have no priest’s for you. He also told us to give up our prayers as they will do us no good. Hmmm So Christ like, priest’s telling the faithful not to pray.
I feel bad for O’Malley but he dug his own grave. Get rid of Bishop Lennon and Law’s hold overs. Until then and he boots out The Voices of the Very Unfaithful he will get no respect from me.
Oh and we have no other Church to go to as HT is the only one that hasn’t been destroyed by progressives. So in effect he is destroying the Latin Mass community. The spirit of Vatican II lives on.
Kathy

 

[ElizabethAnne]

Pandora:

Elizabeth Anne you are so far off the mark you are in Rhode Island.
O’Malley is a nice guy and all but too soft.

My Church and a number of other’s closing do not have financial dificulties. In fact we have more vocations than any other Church.

I understand that losing a parish and a pastor is an extremely painful process and should never be taken lightly. Archbishop O’Malley has affirmed this fact on many occasions as well.

I never said in my post that every church named for closure has financial difficulties. The archdiocese overall has financial difficulties, especially because it is subsidizing many parishes. Yet, the fact is that closures are necessary and the archdiocese shouldn’t close only parishes in debt since that would place the burden on churches in poor areas where the faithful cannot afford to give as much.

Pandora:

The problem is they all go to conservative orders like the FSSP. Lennon turned down the FSSP who were willing to give us 2 priest’s and then lied to us and says we have no priest’s for you. He also told us to give up our prayers as they will do us no good. Hmmm So Christ like, priest’s telling the faithful not to pray.

You seem to be implying that Bishop Lennon targeted conservative parishes. I have heard liberal parishes argue that they have been targeted (St. Albert the Great Parish in Weymouth, for example). That doesn’t sound to me like either side was specifically targeted. Secondly, I do not know what you are referring to when you say that Bishop Lennon told you not to pray. Perhaps he meant you should redirect your prayers to praying for the archdiocese overall rather than saving your specific parish, but I doubt he told you to stop praying overall. Maybe you misinterpreted what he said?

Pandora:

I feel bad for O’Malley but he dug his own grave. Get rid of Bishop Lennon and Law’s hold overs. Until then and he boots out The Voices of the Very Unfaithful he will get no respect from me.

I don’t like VOTF any more than you, and I would love to see them gone. As of right now, new chapters cannot meet on parish grounds in Boston.

But I will say that my archbishop, who you have said yourself is a “nice guy” will ALWAYS have my respect, even if I disagree with him. Every person, made in Christ’s image and likeness, deserves my respect.

Pandora:

Oh and we have no other Church to go to as HT is the only one that hasn’t been destroyed by progressives. So in effect he is destroying the Latin Mass community. The spirit of Vatican II lives on.

You have plenty of other parishes to go to. I understand that you prefer the Latin Mass and do not like Vatican II, but please do not lose your faith because you’ve lost a church building with a Latin Mass.

God bless.

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Annunciata:

I really think you should be praying for this Shepherd, not criticizing him. I know that’s what Jesus would do…

I realize I’m late getting to this, Annunciata, but you “know that’s what Jesus would do?” Truly I’m shocked, shocked! What presumption! :tsktsk:

Anna

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Deacon Tony560:

Quite true! And Jesus only got angry at those who demanded that everyone carry out the letter of the law!

I’m late responding to your comment, too, Deacon, but in this case I’m less “shocked, shocked” then disappointed that you were ordained by a diocese that requires of its deacons so little knowledge of Scripture. Your comment is so flat out wrong that all I can suggest is that you familiarize yourself with the Scripture study that comes out of Scott Hahn’s work at Steubenville and/or Jeff Cavins’ material. :tsktsk:

( Even persons only vaguely familiar with Jesus Christ remember a bit of what we refer to as His cleanising of the Temple. )

Anna

 

[Annunciata]

Anna Elizabeth:

I realize I’m late getting to this, Annunciata, but you “know that’s what Jesus would do?” Truly I’m shocked, shocked! What presumption! :tsktsk:

Anna

Well… Anna Elizabeth, if I’m so presumptuous…tell us just what do you think Jesus would do?
I’m truly shocked that you would be shocked that Jesus would have prayed…:tsktsk:

 

[Deacon_Tony560]

Anna Elizabeth:

I’m late responding to your comment, too, Deacon, but in this case I’m less “shocked, shocked” then disappointed that you were ordained by a diocese that requires of its deacons so little knowledge of Scripture. Your comment is so flat out wrong that all I can suggest is that you familiarize yourself with the Scripture study that comes out of Scott Hahn’s work at Steubenville and/or Jeff Cavins’ material. :tsktsk:

( Even persons only vaguely familiar with Jesus Christ remember a bit of what we refer to as His cleanising of the Temple. )

Anna

I am very familiar with Scott and his loyalty to the magisterium. Rome has decided to allow the bishops to decide. Our bishop will also allow women to participate. Jesus broke many of the man-made laws of his time- healing on the Sabbath, not ceremonial washing at meals Etc. Guess he felt that at times love surpasses man made laws. He got very angry at the temple officials who were “blinded” by these laws. May god bless you. We can aagree to disagree.

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Deacon Tony560:

I am very familiar with Scott and his loyalty to the magisterium.

It wasn’t Dr. Hahn’s fidelity to which I was referring. It was to his materials that I think would provide for you a better understanding of Scripture.

Rome has decided to allow the bishops to decide.

I had no intention of addressing this, but as long as you brought it up, please recall that Archbishop Flynn also had a “talk” with “Rome” (whatever that means), and it was later “clarified!”

Our bishop will also allow women to participate. Jesus broke many of the man-made laws of his time- healing on the Sabbath, not ceremonial washing at meals Etc

Somehow it would not have occurred to me to equate Jesus and your bishop (whoever he may be)!!!

Guess he felt that at times love surpasses man made laws.

Let’s not “guess.” Again, between Hahn and Cavins you should be able to supplement your understanding of Scripture quite adequately.

He got very angry at the temple officials who were “blinded” by these laws.

To my knowledge it was not the Temple officials who were selling sacrificial animals and changing money in the Temple precincts. You may indeed have other info, but, if I am correct, then once again, His anger was not, as you suggest, only reserved for those who had an exaggerated concern for the letter of the Law. I really think you would benefit immensely from more orthodox Scripture study.

. We can aagree to disagree.

Well, actually, no! Truth beckons!

God bless you, too,

Anna

 

[otm]

buffalo:

Then they wouldn’t be supporting Orthodox teaching.

It is not an Orthodox teaching. They are the folks who broke off in the 11th centruy.

Neither is it an orthodox teaching.

It is a rubric. If you can’t tell the difference, you might want to learn a bit more about your faith than you think you already have.

 

[otm]

fix:

I follow him and many bishops. Has he spoken out about, or disciplined Kerry or Kennedy? Has he allowed a well known VOTF member to be included in diocesian activities, instead of disciplining him?

By the grace of God, you are not a priest. You don’t wear your collar backward, and you are not responsible for others’ souls. O’Malley is, and you can throw all the verbal bricks you wish at him. However, you don’t know what he has had to say to them in private, nor what efforts he may have made to address issues with either of them. Just because he has not done what you, in your lack of wisdom and experience think is the right course does not make him weak.

fix:

The answer is yes to these and much more that could be said. He may be a nice guy, but as for Shepherding, there is much room to grow.

And you have no room to grow spritually? Pardon me, I’ll start your canonization process this week.

 

[otm]

I love that…"Doing God’s work by closing 60 of God’s places of worship". That has to make God ecstatic.

** The New Springtime has arrived in …BOSTON!**

**
“powerful and timely” is in the EAR of the listener…thus relative to what?? St Paul, the Gospels, or J. Kerry or maybe T. Kennedy?

ps. Satan took residence in 1948 in Boston, MA.
**

And just what would you, sitting on your exalted throne and anointed with wisdom by Wisdom herself, do to remedy the financial crisis the diocese faces? Wring your hands? Say a novena and pray for a miracle? Get a mortgage that those parishes could not pay back due to such low attendance and such high physical plant maintenance costs, driving the diocese into bankruptcy?

Pray, tell us O Wise One, what you would have done different, since you are so quick to criticize?

 

[triciafrancess]

jlw:

Was it quite by “accident” that the 12 apostles were men?? Was Mary there at the Last Supper?? Mary Magdaline?? Martha??

No, to all questions. None of them were, were they??.

It’s curious then, isn’t it, that women are allowed to attend Holy Thursday mass at all or ever participate in the Eucharist, if it’s all about the fact that only men participated in the original event.

Just a thought.

Tricia Frances

 

[Joan_M]

I am watching this from a distance, and have a negative “gut reaction”. Why? Well, none of us have seen any communication from the Vatican allowing this rubric to be violated. It is, indeed, specifically the feet of 12 men and only men that are to be washed by the priest, commemorating the washing by Jesus of the feet of the 12 apostles at the Last Supper.

Only a few years ago the Vatican issued strict instructions in this matter - I cannot quote a document name, however. I remember it distinctly because I had just had a run-in with my then parish priest, who had stated his intention, at a parish council meeting, of washing the feet of 12 people (men and women) and then inviting them to wash the feet of others, until the entire congegration had been washed. I was the only one expressing a negative reaction to this proposal. Thankfully, only the following week, a full page article was included, from the Vatican, stating in no uncertain terms that only the feet of 12 men should be washed. It went into the reasons, etc., and left absolutely no ambiguities.

In light of this, I question whether, in fact, the Bishop concerned received the response his spokesperson has said he did. If such a letter was, in fact, received, I would expect that copies of it should be supplied to each parish priest. The Bishop should have no qualms about releasing the actual letter - if he really did receive it.

Perhaps I am unduly suspicious. Or, perhaps I have “a Catholic nose” that smells out things illicit, invalid, or heretic… It has stood me in good stead in the years since I unblocked it!!

 

[fix]

otm:

By the grace of God, you are not a priest. You don’t wear your collar backward, and you are not responsible for others’ souls. O’Malley is, and you can throw all the verbal bricks you wish at him. However, you don’t know what he has had to say to them in private, nor what efforts he may have made to address issues with either of them. Just because he has not done what you, in your lack of wisdom and experience think is the right course does not make him weak.

And you have no room to grow spritually? Pardon me, I’ll start your canonization process this week.

Save your clericalism for someone, please. A typical left wing response is to accuse the accuser. I have respect for ab O’Malley, but he needs prayers for strength. Nothing I said in anyway would lead you to accuse me of the things you have. AB O’Malley has a public record and I am commenting on it. My criticisms are just and warranted. If you disagree that is fine, but please use reason to refute my assertions, not hurl your nonsense at me.

 

[fix]

Joan M:

I am watching this from a distance, and have a negative “gut reaction”. Why? Well, none of us have seen any communication from the Vatican allowing this rubric to be violated. It is, indeed, specifically the feet of 12 men and only men that are to be washed by the priest, commemorating the washing by Jesus of the feet of the 12 apostles at the Last Supper.

Only a few years ago the Vatican issued strict instructions in this matter - I cannot quote a document name, however. I remember it distinctly because I had just had a run-in with my then parish priest, who had stated his intention, at a parish council meeting, of washing the feet of 12 people (men and women) and then inviting them to wash the feet of others, until the entire congegration had been washed. I was the only one expressing a negative reaction to this proposal. Thankfully, only the following week, a full page article was included, from the Vatican, stating in no uncertain terms that only the feet of 12 men should be washed. It went into the reasons, etc., and left absolutely no ambiguities.

In light of this, I question whether, in fact, the Bishop concerned received the response his spokesperson has said he did. If such a letter was, in fact, received, I would expect that copies of it should be supplied to each parish priest. The Bishop should have no qualms about releasing the actual letter - if he really did receive it.

Perhaps I am unduly suspicious. Or, perhaps I have “a Catholic nose” that smells out things illicit, invalid, or heretic… It has stood me in good stead in the years since I unblocked it!!

Joan,

Are you not aware that you must embrace clericalism and practice fawning sycophancy in every regard? Apparently, if the liberals cry and shout and are given into that is just and must be tolerated, but if anyone raises any questions they are to be castigated.

 

[buffalo]

otm:

It is not an Orthodox teaching. They are the folks who broke off in the 11th centruy.

Neither is it an orthodox teaching.

It is a rubric. If you can’t tell the difference, you might want to learn a bit more about your faith than you think you already have.

You are right. It should be lower case orthodox.

or·tho·dox cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/JPG/pron.jpg ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ôrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/prime.gifthhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/schwa.gif-dhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/obreve.gifkshttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/AHD4/GIF/lprime.gif)
adj.

1. 
   *]Adhering to the accepted or traditional and established faith, especially in religion.
   *] Adhering to the Christian faith as expressed in the early Christian ecumenical creeds.
   
   Now what is not orthodox about this? Rubrics can be orthodox can they not?

 

[Anna_Elizabeth]

Joan M:

In light of this, I question whether, in fact, the Bishop concerned received the response his spokesperson has said he did. If such a letter was, in fact, received, I would expect that copies of it should be supplied to each parish priest. The Bishop should have no qualms about releasing the actual letter - if he really did receive it.

Perhaps I am unduly suspicious. Or, perhaps I have “a Catholic nose” that smells out things illicit, invalid, or heretic… It has stood me in good stead in the years since I unblocked it!!

Dear Joan, You are, of course, right on the money so to speak. (It just came to me as I type this, “money” may be the operative word here, hmmmmn.) It was a newswoman named Kralis, I believe, that forced out the truth about what “Rome” told Archbishop Flynn re the Rainbow Coalition.
Perhaps the footwashing rubric violation is so minor compared to the homosexual aggression that no one will care to push for what was in the other case referred to as a “clarification!”

Still, it would be beneficial if it could be done, not just to validate the archbishop’s statement, if true, but to prevent the cavalier ignoring of such things by others.

Thanks so much, and God bless,

Anna

 

[Pandora]

Elizabeth Anne, so you are all for the distruction of the Latin Mass community! There is no other Church that can accommodate us. The altar’s are fixed and most have no altar rail. That might not be a big deal to you but it is very important to us. How come the liberals get a pass but those of us who choose not to go schismic but wish to have the Latin Mass which the Pope said we could have are to be trampled?
You guys yell and scream about trads being schismic but you don’t seem to understand that you drive many towards it. All the SSPX that we brought back will be driven right back to the chapels when they close HT. Myself I will be heading to Worchester or Providence RI with most of the HT crowd. We will not just go back to our local parish. I don’t think you understand that we left them because of weak priest’s who let the progressives run wild. I don’t care to see a half naked priest again dancing around the altar.
Kathy

 

[patg]

triciafrancess:

It’s curious then, isn’t it, that women are allowed to attend Holy Thursday mass at all or ever participate in the Eucharist, if it’s all about the fact that only men participated in the original event.

Just a thought.

Tricia Frances

Great thought! Just why are women allowed to receive communion? The logic is exactly the same…

Or maybe I should say that the total lack of reason and logic is exactly the same.