Br Dimond Debate

  • Thread starter Thread starter DesertSaints
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DesertSaints

Guest
I listend to this debate between the Brother Dimond’s and Golle on Sedevecantism vs Vatincan II Church. I think the brothers won the debate and have clearly established the fact that Benedict and John Paul were and are manifest heretics and non-Catholics. But both debaters had good points, which only goes to show that neither postion is right; and therefore, the Orthodox Church must of necessity be the only true Church by the process of elimination. It is Rome, not the East, that is in schism. This is a three hour audio debate.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/debate.html
 
DesertSaints said:
But both debaters had good points, which only goes to show that neither postion is right; and therefore, the Orthodox Church must of necessity be the only true Church by the process of elimination.
Click to expand...
Either that or one of the 2 debators, since they each had good points, one of them could be right.

Was everything in the debate review for you? If not then that demonstrates that there was information that was new to you and very likely you don’t know everything there is to know about the topics they discussed.

Debates, in my opinion, should not be one’s primary source for major decisions.
 
Fun listen, but it really is over the top.

When the Diamond br’s quoted PJP-II:
the whole of humanity is redeemed, saved, enobled, to the extent of participating in divine life by means of grace.
Click to expand...
And then reached the conclusion:
The phrase divine life is the scriptural term for justification, the state of grace. And therefore that means all men are saved…
Click to expand...
That is really :D.

PJP-II is speaking of a proportionality, not cause and effect.
Notice the words “every man” is not in the pope’s statement,
just the whole – as in all nations…

But, most of all, even the Orthodox are heretics according to the Diamond brothers. (They’re schismatics according to the debate!, and therefore outside the church.) So, Desert Saints, elimination goes further than expected 😃
 
“Br” Dimond and the web site referenced contain the most despicable tissue of lies I have ever seen.

DJim
 
DJim said:
“Br” Dimond and the web site referenced contain the most despicable tissue of lies I have ever seen.

DJim
Click to expand...
Were it not for the public nature of the Dimond Bros. message, I would not say this (yet again) on a public forum.

Those guys SERIOUSLY misquote Card. Ratzinger / Pope Benedict XVI.

For instance, they list “Principles of Catholic Theology” as his most heretical work. I read it a couple years ago and came to the conclusion that they either pulled sentences out of the book without reading the immediate clear context. Or they didn’t care, and they just outright lied.

Either way, they are to be seriously reprimanded, but most people don’t take them serious anyways, so it’s almost like they are irrelevant.

DesertSaints - I was almost pulled into their heresy and schism. I had a friend that was for some time an active supporter of their work. Believe me, if you ever like them, correspond with them, and then question anything they say, they will treat you like trash.

But they probably won’t talk to you anyways, since you’re Eastern Orthodox.
 
Considering “Br” Dimond is living a lie, his “win” is also a lie.
 
It never ceases to amaze me how the Extreme Left (Pro abortion “Catholics”, Contraceptive “Catholics”, Pro Women’s Ordination etc. ) and the Extreme Right (Sedevacantism, NFP is evil, Divine Mercy is modernism etc…) are really one and the same to Catholics and Catholicism.

To me they are Protestants. They deny the truths of the Bible where Jesus said “the gates of Hell shall not prevail” like the way Protestants deny the truth of what Jesus said concerning the Real Presence “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood…”

They have as much credibility as Jack Chick.
 
childofmary1143 said:
the Extreme Right (Sedevacantism, NFP is evil, Divine Mercy is modernism etc…)
Click to expand...
Would you mind explaining the “NFP is evil” idea in extreme right to me? I sounds odd.
PM if you would like, so as not to derail the thread.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
Would you mind explaining the “NFP is evil” idea in extreme right to me? I sounds odd.
PM if you would like, so as not to derail the thread.
Click to expand...
I have heard from some “Catholics” that NFP is inherently wrong. They think that abstaining from Sex to avoid pregnancy, in any and all circumstances, is the same as Contraception.
 
childofmary1143 said:
I have heard from some “Catholics” that NFP is inherently wrong. They think that abstaining from Sex to avoid pregnancy, in any and all circumstances, is the same as Contraception.
Click to expand...
I’ve heard this too.

I’ve also heard Protestants questioning the same thing (but in a different context).

Sorry OP … I won’t derail the thread. I just wanted to agree with a poster’s words.
 
Sorry for the derail. Back to the debate!

But I do have to say that I went to the website, and I found myself shaking my head at their lies.
In the words of Nicey Nash ala Clean House:
“What is this foolishness?”
 
Here’s a good article showing how folks like the Dimond Bros twist things to make it look like heresy:

lumengentleman.com/content.asp?id=179

Nothing is clean to the unclean…

Reminds me of these words of St. Basil:

And now the very vindication of orthodoxy is looked upon in some quarters as an opportunity for mutual attack; and men conceal their private ill-will and pretend that their hostility is all for the sake of the truth. Others, afraid of being convicted of disgraceful crimes, madden the people into fratricidal quarrels, that their own doings may be unnoticed in the general distress. Hence the war admits of no truce, for the doers of ill deeds are afraid of a peace, as being likely to lift the veil from their secret infamy. All the while unbelievers laugh; men of weak faith are shaken; faith is uncertain; souls are drenched in ignorance, because adulterators of the word imitate the truth.
 
No, neither side could be right, because the RCC stands or falls on the papacy. If Golle and Vatican 2 is the correct position, then John Paul and Benedict are manifest heretics, and cannot be Catholics according to the teachings of the saints and fathers of East and West.

If Sedevecantism is the correct position, then the See of Rome has been vacant for around 50 years, violating the alleged “infallible” teachings of petrine perpetuity. There is no perpetuity, and therefore all the western teachings of perpetuity was wrong, proving the RCC to be incorrect.

Orthodoxy does not stand or fall on a papacy or patriarch, but on holy tradition, which still exists today. The Catholic Church in Rome does not exist today. Both Golle and Dimond prove it.
 
If Sedevecantism is true, then Hell has overcome Rome because there are no valid cardinals left in the RCC and therefore no pope could be elected. Rome is without a pope and cannot ever legally vote for another pope. This means the RCC has died.
 
DesertSaints said:
No, neither side could be right, because the RCC stands or falls on the papacy. If Golle and Vatican 2 is the correct position, then John Paul and Benedict are manifest heretics, and cannot be Catholics according to the teachings of the saints and fathers of East and West.

If Sedevecantism is the correct position, then the See of Rome has been vacant for around 50 years, violating the alleged “infallible” teachings of petrine perpetuity. There is no perpetuity, and therefore all the western teachings of perpetuity was wrong, proving the RCC to be incorrect.

Orthodoxy does not stand or fall on a papacy or patriarch, but on holy tradition, which still exists today. The Catholic Church in Rome does not exist today. Both Golle and Dimond prove it.
Click to expand...
O, Contrar:
The Office of the Petrine Primacy exists and will until the Second Coming.
When a pope dies, the Vatican State even issues a “SEDE VACANTE” memorative Postal Stamp.
http://www.vaticancoins.com/Sede_Vacante/sv2005.JPG

If your idea had any merit, the Catholic Church would be dead 260+times over, each time a pope dies. The office has gone vacant for as long a 21 months, and in dispute for as long as 30+ years, in the past.
The Primacy in perpetuity has to do with the OFFICE and Authority of the Chair, not whether a warm body happens to be sitting in it.
 
No, neither side could be right, because the RCC stands or falls on the papacy. If Golle and Vatican 2 is the correct position, then John Paul and Benedict are manifest heretics, and cannot be Catholics according to the teachings of the saints and fathers of East and West.
Click to expand...
Golle is arguing that the see is not vacant, and that his opponents arguments are ridiculous. If Golle is right, there are NO heretics because the diamond brothers are wrong.

If there is a particular argument from the Diamond brothers that is bothering you, bring it up! There are dozens of people here at CAF who could easily shred the arguments of the Diamond brothers. Nothing the brother’s said actually proves anyone to be a heretic – it only proves they can quote out of context, or don’t understand English very well.

There are many such quotes on the web, many of which can even be applied to the Orthodox (as many an atheist would make them manifest heretics as well). But that doesn’t make any of the statements true. This is the point of Golle, and his challenge in the debate was “Bring back your strongest 5 arguments and we’ll debate them”. They aren’t willing to debate on a point by point basis, but are throwing dozens of sound bites up hoping you don’t look at them closely – which generally indicates an arguer whose arguments are very weak.

If their arguments had substance, even a SINGLE well argued point would win the debate. (They have no arguments which aren’t without problems of their own.)
 
DesertSaints said:
If Sedevecantism is true, then Hell has overcome Rome because there are no valid cardinals left in the RCC and therefore no pope could be elected. Rome is without a pope and cannot ever legally vote for another pope. This means the RCC has died.
Click to expand...
Election by Cardinals is a canon Law, and has nothing to do with unchanging Dogma.
Canon Law can and has been suspended when a necessity for that suspension arises. In past centuries popes have been elected by acclamation of priests and even by the faithful.
So, the idea that “therefore no pope could be elected (legally)” has no merit either.
 
TNT said:
Election by Cardinals is a canon Law, and has nothing to do with unchanging Dogma.
Canon Law can and has been suspended when a necessity for that suspension arises. In past centuries popes have been elected by acclamation of priests and even by the faithful.
So, the idea that “therefore no pope could be elected (legally)” has no merit either.
Click to expand...
Correct, Gregory the Great comes to mind. He wasn’t even a priest when he was elected by the vote of the faithful of Rome (to be fair, there was a plague going on in Rome, so no one really wanted the job.)

Yours in Christ,
Thursday
 
It really is amazing how you cannot see through the lies presented to the truth.

If you read through the MHFM website properly, you will see that everything they say is backed up with much proof. It’s obvious they won the debate.

Why not read their website properly and listen to their audios and get the full picture of whats going on.

Think about it… if these “popes” were good popes, we wouldn’t even be having this discussion and problem. That in itself must tell you there is something seriously wrong.

I also challenge you all to go back and look at what the true Popes taught. Learn your catholic faith. Those that can’t recognise the heresy and what the church taught about heretics, prove that they do not know the Catholic Faith.

Best of Luck 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top