Brain-damaged woman at center of Wal-Mart suit

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So when Wal-Mart hires people who would not otherwise be employable, holds down prices, establishes a policy of providing a charitable contribution budget for local managers, sends in survival supplies and equipment (with no extra charge), then we can say there is a streak of altruism and good neighborliness in their motivation.
Well…
Hires people who would otherwise be unemployable…Good PR, Good business practice, wages can be kept low.

Holds down prices…Good PR, Good business practice, keeps the customer coming back.

establishes a policy of providing a charitable contribution budget for local managers…Good PR, and an incentive for the employees who could otherwise take their training and go elsewhere.

sends in survival supplies and equipment (with no extra charge)…No extra charge because it could trigger public outcry and government investigations into price gouging. This is also good PR, and this type of action does not happen in every disaster.

There are two sides to this.
I am reluctant to yield altuistic traits to this corporate entity.
 
That would be a valid view.
But there are those of us that recognize their duty to the bottom line. And given their persistant work towards it, realize that altruism may not play as big a part in those efforts as PR.
I can bear witness to similar action as you described in this thread being considered.
Said the manager (paraphrasing, I cannot remember the exact words)…Not a move without higher approval; and they generally don’t move unless there is something to be gained.
Once again, the old “They do the right thing, but for the wrong reason” ploy.
My differentiation there is between the individuals on the Board, and the corporate entity itself.
No one individual on the BOD controls the actions of the corporate entity.
Take away the people, what is left of the Corporation?

The BOD sets the broad policies and holds lower managers accountable for supporting those policies.
 
Well…
Hires people who would otherwise be unemployable…Good PR, Good business practice, wages can be kept low.

Holds down prices…Good PR, Good business practice, keeps the customer coming back.

establishes a policy of providing a charitable contribution budget for local managers…Good PR, and an incentive for the employees who could otherwise take their training and go elsewhere.

sends in survival supplies and equipment (with no extra charge)…No extra charge because it could trigger public outcry and government investigations into price gouging. This is also good PR, and this type of action does not happen in every disaster.

There are two sides to this.
I am reluctant to yield altuistic traits to this corporate entity.
Interesting. So, for individual Catholic business owners in my community, should I also question their altruism? Perhaps the Catholic attorney I know does all of his volunteer work because he is just interested in networking. Maybe his contributions are just for tax reasons. How far should we take our judgment of others’ motives?

There are often “benefits” to doing the right thing. Would you prefer that Wal-Mart stop all charitable actions? Stop hiring people who would have difficulty being employed elsewhere? I would be interested if that is what you are truly advocating.
 
Well…
Hires people who would otherwise be unemployable…Good PR, Good business practice, wages can be kept low.

Holds down prices…Good PR, Good business practice, keeps the customer coming back.

establishes a policy of providing a charitable contribution budget for local managers…Good PR, and an incentive for the employees who could otherwise take their training and go elsewhere.

sends in survival supplies and equipment (with no extra charge)…No extra charge because it could trigger public outcry and government investigations into price gouging. This is also good PR, and this type of action does not happen in every disaster.

There are two sides to this.
I am reluctant to yield altuistic traits to this corporate entity.
I trust you will be providing proof that the only reason they do these things is for PR reasons.
 
I trust you will be providing proof that the only reason they do these things is for PR reasons.
As much proof as has been offered that these are for altruistic reasons.

But that misses the point.

The point is that you cannot take any of these actions and automatically declare the corporate entity altruistic.
 
As much proof as has been offered that these are for altruistic reasons.

But that misses the point.

The point is that you cannot take any of these actions and automatically declare the corporate entity altruistic.
Just as you can not do the opposite which you are doing.
 
Just as you can not do the opposite which you are doing.
No…I am not attempting to show the opposite at all.
I am looking at all of these actions and seeing that the altruism of the act cannot be determined.
It is looking at many actions both big and small over a long period of time that give us a clearer picture of how noble this corporation actually is.

Thus far, I am convinced that the bottom line is the prime motivator.
 
Well…
Hires people who would otherwise be unemployable…Good PR, Good business practice, wages can be kept low.
So let’s petition Wal-Mart to fire all those people.😛
Holds down prices…Good PR, Good business practice, keeps the customer coming back.
Good business practices benefit both the business and the customer. What’s wrong with that?
establishes a policy of providing a charitable contribution budget for local managers…Good PR, and an incentive for the employees who could otherwise take their training and go elsewhere.
There’s a word for a statement where the initial premise doesn’t match the conclusion.😛

Explain how a practice of decentralized charitable giving locks employees in and prevents them from getting better jobs elsewhere.
sends in survival supplies and equipment (with no extra charge)…No extra charge because it could trigger public outcry and government investigations into price gouging. This is also good PR, and this type of action does not happen in every disaster.
Actually, it does. Wal-Mart was a major player in the Hurricane Katrina aftermath.
There are two sides to this.
I am reluctant to yield altuistic traits to this corporate entity.
Have you considered how fundamentally unChristian that is? You are denegrating the good they do, and no matter how good they are, you still find excuses to attack them.

As I have pointed out before, you are free to start your own business and run it your own way. Be sure you employ as many people as Wal-Mart and sell as wide a variety of goods at the same or lower price as Wal-Mart.
 
So let’s petition Wal-Mart to fire all those people.😛
Why? It is a good practice, and no one has disputed that.
Your going to have to explain your logic in that, I am not following here.
Good business practices benefit both the business and the customer. What’s wrong with that?
Nothing at all. And no one said otherwise…except those that wish to claim this to be an altruistic trait.
What is so noble in a business that adhere to practices that aid the business?
Explain how a practice of decentralized charitable giving locks employees in and prevents them from getting better jobs elsewhere.
It doesn’t. No one claimed it did.
Actually, it does. Wal-Mart was a major player in the Hurricane Katrina aftermath.
Certainly a good thing.
And if they didn’t make commercials about it and capitalize off of this good deed, some may view as more then PR.
Have you considered how fundamentally unChristian that is? You are denegrating the good they do, and no matter how good they are, you still find excuses to attack them.
It is now considered an attack not to believe that a given move made by this corporation is altruistic?
It is an attack to disbelieve that their sole purpose is out of the generousness of its heart?

You accuse me of far more then is actually there.
As I have pointed out before, you are free to start your own business and run it your own way. Be sure you employ as many people as Wal-Mart and sell as wide a variety of goods at the same or lower price as Wal-Mart.
I know. Does it irritate people that I will not?
I never have had a desire to compete with Wal Mart. For that matter, I have no inclination to go into retail at all.
I am uncertain how exactly this plays into the argument though.
Whether or not I compete with it for business is not relevent to the altruism lacking in the efforts of this corporate giant.
 
You know, these forums have their share of holier-than-thou people who use the excuse that they’re commanded to “admonish the sinner.”

But you’re the first guy I’ve met who wants to admonish people who do good.😛
 
Wow. That is just plain disgusting. How Wal-Mart can justify such disgusting behavior I don’t know. :mad: 😦 Unfortunately, people like me have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart because of their low prices.
 
No…I am not attempting to show the opposite at all.
I am looking at all of these actions and seeing that the altruism of the act cannot be determined.
It is looking at many actions both big and small over a long period of time that give us a clearer picture of how noble this corporation actually is.

Thus far, I am convinced that the bottom line is the prime motivator.
Like I said… You are judging motivations that you have no way to know.

So by the Scripture and paragraphs of the Catechism I posted you are not in a good light right now. Be aware you will be judged in exactly the same way you are judging.
 
You know, these forums have their share of holier-than-thou people who use the excuse that they’re commanded to “admonish the sinner.”

But you’re the first guy I’ve met who wants to admonish people who do good.😛
Given the number of people on the forum, and the number of posts you have made in these forums…

I guess that means I’m pretty close to one in a million.😉
Thanks. It is a talent, I guess.

Oh…and it is a corporation…not a person.
If a person does good, I give them the same fair shake given this corporation. But usually people do not have the burden of the ‘duty to the bottom line’ to overcome.
People also generally do not have an ad agency televising their good deeds.
 
It seems to me that the injured party is in a zero-sum situation. She initially got money to pay her med bills from WalMart, then she got the same money from the lawsuit, and now WalMart, as per their policy wants the money back since the injured party has received money from a different source. She is thus no further back than after Walmart initially paid. There is therefore nothing resembling immorality here.
Actually, due to the nature of her injuries, $1M is not enough money to make her “whole.” In other words, there is not enough available money to compensate the poor lady given the amount of medical bills she sustained and will continue to sustain into the future.

Wal-Mart (or their insurer) had a contractual obligation to pay her medical bills. They had a standard subrogation clause in their boilerplate insurance contract. They have a right to be paid back the money they shelled out if a third party is found to be responsible for the injuries the woman sustained.

But, Wal Mart did nothing to assist in retrieving the money from the responsible party. They have the right to hire their own attorney and seek to be compensated from the third party themselves. They chose to let the woman’s attorney do the work, and they wanted their money back for free. This is considered ineqitable under many state subrogation laws. Under the rule entitled the “common fund doctrine” Wal Mart would be able to subrogate, but they would have to reduce the amount of money they receive (actually the reduction would be thrust upon them by the court) by what they would likely pay an attorney to retrieve the money for them, plus a pro-rata share of the litigation expenses.

Other states have a more sensible subrogation rule. It is called the “made-whole” doctrine. Under this rule, if the injured party were not “made whole” by a settlement or jury award, then the insurance company (who, after all has a contractual obligation to pay for medical bills) gets nothing back. The key to this doctrine (and why I belive it is more sensible) is that insurance companies are better suited to shoulder the risk. The woman who is injured and needs lifetime care is unable to shoulder the risk. So, who should the money go to?

For my money we should fully compensate those who are catastrophically injured. Otherwise, you and I pay for their care through our taxes.

I don’t mind paying more in taxes to help people in need. But I’ll be darned if I’ll pay one penny extra when there is someone else out there with the wherewithal and the obligation to pay.

Lastly, the reason Wal Mart was able to sue for reimbursement was because of a change in the federal law governing health insurance plans. It’s called ERISA, and due to recent federal court rulings, the right of states to apply their equitable subrogation rules has been virtually eliminated. The appellate court rulings favor the insurance company’s rights to subrogate over the injured party’s right to be fully compensated.

Ultimately Wal Mart did the right thing by waiving their right to subrogate, but in my view, it was not out of the goodness of their heart.
 
So by the Scripture and paragraphs of the Catechism I posted you are not in a good light right now
Actually, I am not so sure they apply in this case.
We are talking about a corporate entity…not a person.

People were made to know, love and serve God and to be happy with him forever.
A business is there to make money.

.
Be aware you will be judged in exactly the same way you are judging.
My judgement is not nearly as harsh as you think.
Wal Mart is what it is.
 
Given the number of people on the forum, and the number of posts you have made in these forums…

I guess that means I’m pretty close to one in a million.😉
Thanks. It is a talent, I guess.

Oh…and it is a corporation…not a person.
A corporation is a person – but only in law. Morally, the corporation is nothing more or less than the people who make it up. Unless you are willing to grant intellience to the physical assets of the corporation.
If a person does good, I give them the same fair shake given this corporation. But usually people do not have the burden of the ‘duty to the bottom line’ to overcome.
Actually, we do – do you not work for a living? Do you not have a duty to your bottom line – lest your family go without food and shelter?
People also generally do not have an ad agency televising their good deeds.
You don’t watch political ads, eh?😉

But many things Wal-Mart has done – including their reaction to our recent tornado and flood disasters – are not advertised.
 
A corporation is a person – but only in law. Morally, the corporation is nothing more or less than the people who make it up. Unless you are willing to grant intellience to the physical assets of the corporation.
Correct, a corporation is an artificial citizen.
However, that is much different then the people you and I argue with on these forums every day.
And in that vein…it is not a person.
Actually, we do – do you not work for a living? Do you not have a duty to your bottom line – lest your family go without food and shelter?
Well that is a very fine line.
My first priority is my family. I have had more then my share of forced employment changes due to this fact.
The ‘bottom line’ as it has been used throughout this thread refers to money.
So no. My first duty is the family, not money.
As far as money as a means to providing for the family, then yes. But it is hardly money for its own sake as it exists for a corporation (remember, it exists only to make money.)
You don’t watch political ads, eh?😉
Call it hopeless optimism on my part, but I don’t believe most people to be politicians.
I regard Wal Mart as slightly better then most politicians.
At least I can predict with a fair amount of accuracy where Wal Mart is…just follow the dollars. With your average politician, there’s no telling what you will get next.
But many things Wal-Mart has done – including their reaction to our recent tornado and flood disasters – are not advertised.
Well, you have given their work in your neck of the woods a fair amount of talk.
I suspect the corporation is aware that this type of chatter abounds with every act.
While one could certainly not count this as the corporation tooting its own horn over a good deed, there could well be a case to be made that the publicity itself is already a known quantity and the investment in advertising is decided against for precisely that reason.
 
Well that is a very fine line.
My first priority is my family. I have had more then my share of forced employment changes due to this fact.
The ‘bottom line’ as it has been used throughout this thread refers to money.
So no. My first duty is the family, not money.

As far as money as a means to providing for the family, then yes. But it is hardly money for its own sake as it exists for a corporation (remember, it exists only to make money.)
That makes as much sense as saying you only work to make money.

The corporation exists to make money for its shareholders – who use it the same way you use money, to feed, clothe, house and educate their families. There is no difference, except for this – the BOD has a feduciary duty to the shareholders. If they fail, shareholders can suffer badly (remember Enron?)
Call it hopeless optimism on my part, but I don’t believe most people to be politicians.
Between the politicians and the Pharasees (you see a lot of them on these forums) there is a lot of boasting about the “good” they do.
I regard Wal Mart as slightly better then most politicians.
At least I can predict with a fair amount of accuracy where Wal Mart is…just follow the dollars. With your average politician, there’s no telling what you will get next.

Well, you have given their work in your neck of the woods a fair amount of talk.
I suspect the corporation is aware that this type of chatter abounds with every act.
I don’t see anyone from Wal-Mart following these forums.

If they do, that might give them an incentive to advertise the good they do – since so many people damn and blackguard them, even in the face of evidence that they are truly a good citizen and neighbor.
While one could certainly not count this as the corporation tooting its own horn over a good deed, there could well be a case to be made that the publicity itself is already a known quantity and the investment in advertising is decided against for precisely that reason.
How would you feel if someone accused you of having ulterior motives for every good deed you do – without any evidence?
 
That makes as much sense as saying you only work to make money.

The corporation exists to make money for its shareholders – who use it the same way you use money, to feed, clothe, house and educate their families. There is no difference, except for this – the BOD has a feduciary duty to the shareholders. If they fail, shareholders can suffer badly (remember Enron?)
True enough. But the purpose of the company is to make money. Not see to the well being of its family.
Look at it this way…is the purpose of a hammer to make houses? or drive nails.
Likewise, there is no further purpose to the corporation then to make money. What this money is later used for is something different entirely.
If they do, that might give them an incentive to advertise the good they do – since so many people damn and blackguard them, even in the face of evidence that they are truly a good citizen and neighbor.
I think I am being misunderstood here.
I have no wish to condemn the corporate entity.
I just recognize it as what it is. Good bad or indifferent.
It is a money making machine. And it is very good at what it does. But as good as that may be, whatever prosperity it may bring to the neighbors (or to whatever detriment) , it does not have a motive beyond the dollar. It can’t. It is a tool to get more dollars.
One can no more apply altruistic traits to it then they could altruistic traits to a hammer.
How would you feel if someone accused you of having ulterior motives for every good deed you do – without any evidence?
I would feel bad…but then again, I am human.
 
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