Brain-dead "liturgy committee" members?

[Nota_Bene]

Does it seem like an inordinately large number of people who serve on “liturgy committees” lack the benefits of good higher education and/or just good old intrinsic “smarts?”

I’ll be the first to admit my sample size is tiny (three parishes, one diocese), and that my observations in no way apply to every member I have met from my parishs’ liturgy committees.

Still there does seem to be some sort of correlation, at least here locally. No, it’s not a matter of simply disagreeing with others. It’s a matter of observing people who seem unable to think in a critical manner – everything is knee-jerk and emotional. I have indeed watched people (committee members) who were obviously unable to follow a rather cogent argument (certainly not my own.) I have seen eyes glaze-over at the mention of the GIRM or other Church documents.

Citing Church documents also seems to trigger a great deal of angst, followed by what almost appears to be manufactured scorn.

In all three parishes, the liturgy committees are in no way representative of their parish populations in terms of sex. They were more than 5:1 female to male. Closer to 10:1 in all actuality. Perhaps this has some bearing on what I have observed? (No, I’m not suggesting that women are dumb, but I am suggesting that all three committees may well have recruited members similiar to themselves when vacancies arose – they are horribly inbred.)

Finally “liturgy committee” meeting times/locations are never published around here. Their minutes are never published either. Plus, they are held during the weekday when most people work, and one cannot attend a meeting without prior approval – approval that can be denied without any reason given.

Anyone else have similiar experiences?

 

[Fast_ed75]

The city I just moved from had two Catholic parishes- Both liturgy commitees were chaired by plainclothesed nuns- Church documents were never consulted because the liturgical abuse was extremely profane. On Pentecost- there was a pre-teen girl dancing in tights down the aisle. Then during the reading of the gospel she led the priest all along the church as he walked alongside the pews= she was carrying a pot of some sort of boiling liquid. The only thing I could do was pray for that nun- It is so unfortunate that many of them have become involved in new age/wicca and/or Sophia worship.

 

[JimG]

I must confess I’ve never quite understood the need for a liturgy committee. After all, the liturgy is actually pretty well prescribed by the sacramentary, the lectionary, and the GIRM. The colors are determined by where we are in the liturgical year. All that remains is to pick out some singable and orthodox hymns–apparently that can be a challenge.

 

[puzzleannie]

I am meeting with our liturgy committee (composed of the coordinators of each Mass) to explain the RCIA and Rites for Lent and Easter, and what is needed for the Triduum. It has gradually dawned on me, in my 3 years here, that none of them has the least idea what is going on in why, in spite of the fact that the RCIA was fully implemented here over 20 years ago.

we don’t have formal choirs, whoever shows up and wants to sing, sings, we do have cantors for some Masses. If anybody wants to start a thread on theologically uninformed, musically untalented, liturgically uneducated cantors I would like to contribute.

 

[Nota_Bene]

puzzleannie:

I am meeting with our liturgy committee (composed of the coordinators of each Mass) to explain the RCIA and Rites for Lent and Easter, and what is needed for the Triduum. It has gradually dawned on me, in my 3 years here, that none of them has the least idea what is going on in why, in spite of the fact that the RCIA was fully implemented here over 20 years ago.

we don’t have formal choirs, whoever shows up and wants to sing, sings, we do have cantors for some Masses. If anybody wants to start a thread on theologically uninformed, musically untalented, liturgically uneducated cantors I would like to contribute.

So you have Mass “coordinators?” Even though they are clueless, I would bet they both covet and protect their positions?

Do they also run-around the sanctuary just before Mass “just to check on things” so they can be seen by others?

While there are certainly a great many exceptions, people who volunteer for “sanctuary-based ministries” often seem to be the last people who should be doing so.

 

[Nota_Bene]

JimG:

I must confess I’ve never quite understood the need for a liturgy committee. After all, the liturgy is actually pretty well prescribed by the sacramentary, the lectionary, and the GIRM. The colors are determined by where we are in the liturgical year. All that remains is to pick out some singable and orthodox hymns–apparently that can be a challenge.

Around here they seem to be limited to “designing the liturgical environment” and backing the pastor on not fixing abuses that people make noise about.

They do a horrible job decorating the Church for the most part. Embarassing, actually.

More and more their support of liturgical abuse is coming under fire, thanks be to God.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I really do not understand what a “liturgy committee” is nor what is should do.

Can someone please spell this out for me.

 

[cestusdei]

In my parish I am the liturgy committee. After all I am the one who went to seminary and actually studied liturgy. Would you go to a doctor who had never studied medicine, but had read a few journals and so claimed to know what he was doing? And I have the rubrics and the girm. I can read. I don’t need anyone to tell me to just do what the Church says to do.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

cestusdei:

In my parish I am the liturgy committee. After all I am the one who went to seminary and actually studied liturgy. Would you go to a doctor who had never studied medicine, but had read a few journals and so claimed to know what he was doing? And I have the rubrics and the girm. I can read. I don’t need anyone to tell me to just do what the Church says to do.

That’s the exact point of my question.

I believe that most, if not all, liturgical abuse orginated with the liturgy committee.

 

[JimG]

cestusdei:

In my parish I am the liturgy committee. After all I am the one who went to seminary and actually studied liturgy. Would you go to a doctor who had never studied medicine, but had read a few journals and so claimed to know what he was doing? And I have the rubrics and the girm. I can read. I don’t need anyone to tell me to just do what the Church says to do.

Amen to that. Why should it require a committee to tell the priest how to celebrate Mass?

 

[Nota_Bene]

cestusdei:

In my parish I am the liturgy committee. After all I am the one who went to seminary and actually studied liturgy. Would you go to a doctor who had never studied medicine, but had read a few journals and so claimed to know what he was doing? And I have the rubrics and the girm. I can read. I don’t need anyone to tell me to just do what the Church says to do.

Are you a bishop or priest?

The reason I ask is that most deacons I know are horribly educated even thought heir have their mail-order-masters.

 

[jlw]

ByzCath:

That’s the exact point of my question.

I believe that most, if not all, liturgical abuse orginated with the liturgy committee.

Great observation!

 

[pnewton]

cestusdei:

In my parish I am the liturgy committee.

Sounds like an efficient committee. The priest of my home parish operates the same way, consulting with ministers in different areas, but making the decisions himself. The rest of use may advise, but always with an understanding of obedience.

 

[jlw]

I heard of a young traditional priest who was assigned to a neighboring diocese. In the first week he was there, he called a meeting of the “liturgy commitee”.

He called the meeting to order…and promptly told them they were no longer needed!

“Why, in the name of God do I, as a priest, need a commitee for this parish?? I am the commitee!” he said with a smile.

Some were flustered by this, but from what I hear, families are flocking to this young, energetic priest, who is also a great homilist!

 

[JKirkLVNV]

cestusdei:

In my parish I am the liturgy committee. After all I am the one who went to seminary and actually studied liturgy. Would you go to a doctor who had never studied medicine, but had read a few journals and so claimed to know what he was doing? And I have the rubrics and the girm. I can read. I don’t need anyone to tell me to just do what the Church says to do.

Father: Do you also pick the music? If so, how do you go about doing it? What do you think about the current offerings in the various
hymnals/ songbooks for Mass? Thanks!

 

[Nota_Bene]

jlw:

I heard of a young traditional priest who was assigned to a neighboring diocese. In the first week he was there, he called a meeting of the “liturgy commitee”.

He called the meeting to order…and promptly told them they were no longer needed!

“Why, in the name of God do I, as a priest, need a commitee for this parish?? I am the commitee!” he said with a smile.

Some were flustered by this, but from what I hear, families are flocking to this young, energetic priest, who is also a great homilist!

Outstanding!

 

[cestusdei]

I am lousy at music. So I do have some good music folks. I have them run the stuff by me. I did ban a few hymns. Also I have people to help decorate the church. It all works just fine and there is no conflict.

 

[puzzleannie]

In my naivete, I thought that the priest was the liturgist, but evidently those like cest who know it are getting rarer, and they prefer to delegate these responsibilities. Met with liturgy committee about RCIA and Lent, as I suspected they have no idea what the rites are and why we have to disrupt Mass for them. I casually asked (because I have been trying to find a wedge for recently confirmed HS youth with the desire to serve as lectors and ushers) when we would be training again. Answer: each coordinator trains their own team, using a packet of misc. photocopied articles, drawings etc that date from the 1950s. I asked if they would like to glance at my GIRM. They are not familiar with it and wonder if they need to bother with it. Oh well.

 

[Bobby_Jim]

jlw:

I heard of a young traditional priest who was assigned to a neighboring diocese. In the first week he was there, he called a meeting of the “liturgy commitee”.

He called the meeting to order…and promptly told them they were no longer needed!

“Why, in the name of God do I, as a priest, need a commitee for this parish?? I am the commitee!” he said with a smile.

Some were flustered by this, but from what I hear, families are flocking to this young, energetic priest, who is also a great homilist!

I guess it’s fine if he wants to do that. Hopefully the former members of the committee took it the right way, although as others have pointed out there are some things like decoration and music that many priests need some help with - will these folks that he dismissed with a smile and a wave of his hand be so willing to step right up and lend a hand when asked, for this or anything else in the parish?

While some may applaud the young priest for coming in and taking charge, there’s also something to be said for at least saying “thank you for your service”, being kind and courteous, and treating people with respect (even if you know you’re right). I don’t know if this is his regular pattern of dealing with people.

It would be interesting to know how he treats the building’s janitor. Pastors come and go, but those guys stay forever. And if you get on their bad side, you’re in for a long 6 years…

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Nota Bene:

Are you a bishop or priest?

The reason I ask is that most deacons I know are horribly educated even thought heir have their mail-order-masters.

This is a terrible comment. Even if the deacons in your diocese do their classes though mail-order, that is not how it is done everywhere.

It sure isn’t that way where I live. Nor is this the case for the diaconate program in the Byzantine and Melkite Churches. While they do not get masters, they must have a bachelors or equivalant and then they havea 4 year program with classes at the semianry.