Brain dead or actually dead?

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Yeah, somebody RE-E-EALLY screwed up in making the “brain-dead” determination…

(That said, there’s a lot about this story that I don’t know.)

D
 
“The doctors were so certain of their diagnosis that his mother signed the paperwork to have his vital organs harvested for donation. Now to qualify for such donation, an individual must have died; this is the meaning of the “dead-donor rule” that prevails in the United States”
 
Here’s my Criteria for Death:
  • No Brain Activity
  • No Breathing
  • No Pulse
There, you’re dead and can proceed with organ harvesting.

Honestly, I never understood how people were buried alive. Just Set them out and wait for decomposition??
 
I studied brain death a lot last year. I think it’s possible to make an error in the determination of brain death. It’s rare though. Usually, they have two doctors make the determination a specified period of time apart. The tests they do are outlined in youtube videos.

I followed the Israel Stinson case and was really swept up in the emotions surrounding it. While one can say he had some life left in him, it was very very little. Essentially, he was kaput. That’s the best word I can use.

It’s different when somebody is in a coma. It’s also different if somebody is in a vegetative state. But if a person can’t breathe on his own and needs a ventilator, AND displays all the signs of brain death, I would say it’s best to let them go.

If you had a clock that was right two times a day, but otherwise not working, it really is best to admit that your clock is kaput and can’t function as a clock. Yes, Israel Stinson had some reactions, and I don’t agree with the doctors who think it’s all reflexes, for it’s not, but we’re talking such a low low level of liveliness. It takes a lot of medical expertise to keep people on a ventilator; in some cases the patient can get a tracheostomy, but the question is, “Is this person even aware he’s alive?”
 
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So… I guess you could say he was

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Consider that the abortion industry is a billion dollar one. The harvesting of human organs has the same potential. How many others out there believe like I do that the $$$ will trump all philosophical and theological arguments when it comes to a final definition of human death?
I wouldn’t hold my breath for the pro life side of this argument to win.
 
“Mostly dead,” or “nearly dead,” or dying, might be more apt. The fact is that a “brain dead” patient is not actually dead. The question is whether being dying or mostly dead is sufficient reason to take his organs, since it is the removal of vital organs that causes actual death.
 
Even though some mistakes are made–and some miracles really do happen with people lifted by God from the dead–you have to consider how the medical profession is to proceed. There are hundreds if not thousands of cases of brain dead people. Doctors do their best to identify which people are brain dead. Even if their error ratio was 2:1000 they’d still have to go on with business as usual. Right now, we just don’t know enough about the brain to fix it. Hospitals couldn’t function if all the beds were taken up by the brain dead whose families were hoping beyond hope for their revitalization.
 
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Cruciferi said:
Honestly, I never understood how people were buried alive.
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It is very, very possible to have a heartbeat and technically be “alive”, yet that be undetectable with late 19th century medical equipment. It was a lack of technology that got people tragically buried alive.
 
JimG said:
The fact is that a “brain dead” patient is not actually dead.
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I’m sorry, but if there is no brain activity at all, if the brain has completely ceased functioning, if you’re disconnected from life support, you will stop breathing - because you weren’t breathing on your own in the first place.

A brain dead patient is indeed dead. You cannot live without parasympathetic nervous system function - and that is controlled by the brain stem. If the brain stem is dead…
 
JimG said:
This boy was brain dead
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I am not sure why you say that. Apparently someone suspected that he was brain dead, and the doctors intended to determine whether he was brain dead, but before they had a chance to make that determination he recovered.
 
Yeah, so let them sit out until they bloat a little. :man_shrugging:t2: What’s the rush in burying?
 
He was dead. But it was not his destiny to stay dead. So he is alive.
 
So often(particularly in countries with socialized medicine), being “close to brain dead” is enough to get you a brain dead diagnosis. That is why supposedly brain dead patients continue to respirate on their own (off the ventilator) for several days. If they were truly brain dead, they would asphixiate pretty much immediately. So with this in mind, I can totally see why a “brain dead” person could recover. Its a diagnosis for lazy doctors who are too proud but don’t know how to treat his condition.
 
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