Brandy for the Eucharist

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MilesVitae

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So, this evening I was drinking a glass of port given to my sister by her priest, and I noticed that the bottle says “approved for sacramental use.” This surprised me a little at first, since my understanding is that only grape wine may be used for the Eucharist, but port is fortified by the addition of brandy or something along those lines… except, of course, brandy is distilled from grape wine.

Which leads me to question - since the addition of brandy is acceptable for sacramental wine, could brandy itself (in theory) be used for the sacrament, as it is itself simply distilled from wine with no further additives?

Hmmmmmm
 
I know Anglicans are often using port in their Eucharist. It isn’t approved in the GIRM for Roman use, however.
 
No. Brandy cannot be used in place of altar wine.

Only true wine can be used. It is acceptable to take the alcohol from brandy and add it to the natural grape wine to increase the alcohol level (for different reasons). The only reason why this is possible is because that alcohol originally came from some kind of grape wine.

On the other hand, brandy is not wine. It’s wine that has been altered in such a way that it is no longer wine; as such it cannot be used for the Eucharist.

Some wines are labeled with the name “port” as a descriptive term, but they are not true Port Wines (true Port must come from Portugal). Some American makers of altar wine have versions they call “port” or that have that word in the name. It means more that it is “port style.” The naming is similar to burgundy. Only a wine that comes from Burgundy France is true burgundy, but sometimes that word can still be used on the bottle if the vintner has been using the name for over a century, or something like that, before the word became proprietary.

I’m going to venture a guess that the label doesn’t say “Port” all by itself, but rather has a name like “California Port” or “New York Port” or “St Peter Port.”
 
LoyalViews said:
I know Anglicans are often using port in their Eucharist. It isn’t approved in the GIRM for Roman use, however.
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A valid Eucharist requires both a validly ordained priest and valid matter. Since their orders are not valid, it makes no difference what kind of liquid they use.
 
LoyalViews said:
I know Anglicans are often using port in their Eucharist. It isn’t approved in the GIRM for Roman use, however.
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That’s not true. Port wine (unless it was somehow adulterated in which case it would no longer be port wine) is most certainly acceptable for Mass.

“Sacramental wines” are such a scam! The rules say nothing may be added to the wines made from grape juice yet 99% of all wines (including “certified” sacramental wines) contain added sulfites to reduce spoilage. That’s precisely why brandy was added to sacramental wine in the past – to make the wine less prone to spoilage.

It makes no difference anyway as there are approved ways around adding both sulfites, brandy and other chemicals to keep sacramental wine from spoiling.

A prime example of a wine that wouldn’t be acceptable for communion would be Champagne as sugar is added to it during the wine making process.
 
FrDavid96 said:
A valid Eucharist requires both a validly ordained priest and valid matter. Since their orders are not valid, it makes no difference what kind of liquid they use.
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Suppose the Episcopal priest has been ordained by an Old Catholic cleric or an Orthodox. The orders of the Old Catholics and the Orthodox are considered valid. Does that make a difference?
 
Shirtless said:
Suppose the Episcopal priest has been ordained by an Old Catholic cleric or an Orthodox. The orders of the Old Catholics and the Orthodox are considered valid. Does that make a difference?
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It a man was validly ordained within Orthodoxy or the Old Catholic Church they could indeed confect the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ under the appearances of wine and bread so long as it was their intent, so long as they followed the rubrics of a valid liturgy and the matter (bread/wine) was legitimate.
 
JuniperoSerra said:
That’s not true. Port wine (unless it was somehow adulterated in which case it would no longer be port wine) is most certainly acceptable for Mass.

“Sacramental wines” are such a scam! The rules say nothing may be added to the wines made from grape juice yet 99% of all wines (including “certified” sacramental wines) contain added sulfites to reduce spoilage. That’s precisely why brandy was added to sacramental wine in the past – to make the wine less prone to spoilage.

It makes no difference anyway as there are approved ways around adding both sulfites, brandy and other chemicals to keep sacramental wine from spoiling.

A prime example of a wine that wouldn’t be acceptable for communion would be Champagne as sugar is added to it during the wine making process.
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Brandy may be acceptable to Protestants but it is NOT permitted in a Catholic Mass. As Father David said it does not matter anyway for Protestants as their priests/ministers do not have valid orders.
 
Shirtless said:
Suppose the Episcopal priest has been ordained by an Old Catholic cleric or an Orthodox. The orders of the Old Catholics and the Orthodox are considered valid. Does that make a difference?
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The point is that what they use (edit: meaning “what are their rules”) when they recall the Last Supper has nothing to do with the question the OP asked, because there’s no validly ordained priest present anyway.

If you want the answer to your question, by all means ask away, but it should be in its own thread.
 
Something people need to know about what constitutes valid matter for the Eucharist, with regard to the wine:

It does not matter what kind of descriptive words are used on the labels. What does matter is what product is actually in the bottle.

For all kinds of different reasons, wine companies use descriptive words in naming their wines which sometimes match names that are otherwise protected or reserved under national or international laws.

Under European law, the word “Port” is reserved to a certain kind of altered wine originating in a region of Portugal. The U.S. has no such law–meaning that U.S. vintners can label a bottle with the word “Port” (they just cannot export it to an EU country).

Whether or not a wine is valid matter for the Eucharist does not depend on the name printed on the label. That means that no one can say “American port is valid matter” and neither can anyone say “American port is not valid matter.” Such generalized statements simply cannot be made because the true answer depends on exactly how each vintner produces its own version of what it calls by the name “port.”

Generally speaking, the process of making port wine means that it is not valid matter for the Eucharist. However, because it’s entirely possible that a particular version of American port could meet the standards for valid matter, it’s possible (indeed it’s a fact) that some producers of sacramental wine have varieties that use that word “port” on the label.

Usually, the bishop in whose territory the winery is located will be the one who gives official approval for the wine to be used at Mass. It is customary for vintners to label their approved wines so that priests can be certain that what we use is valid matter. That typically means adding something like this to the label “Approved for Sacramental Use” followed by the name of the bishop or of the diocese. There is no required wording here, and it does vary.

Sometimes it is not cost-effective for smaller wineries to have special labels for approved altar wines. In that case, they can provide a copy of the letter from the bishop certifying which of their wines can be used at Mass. I know of one company that uses small computer labels which state that the bishop has approved this wine. If a priest buys this wine for use at the altar, they will simply add these labels to the bottle (the local bishop requires this as a condition of his approval). That means that they don’t label the wine as altar wine until the point-of-sale.

What people need to understand here is that the criteria for determining if a wine if valid matter or is not valid is “what is in the bottle?” not “what words are used to name or describe the wine?”

There are some American wines that happen to have the word “port” on the label. That simply means that the wine is port-style or that it somehow resembles true Port Wine from Portugal; even though a true, authentic “Port Wine” is not valid matter. If these wines meet the standards for valid matter, then the local bishop might approve them for use at Mass and they can be labeled as such for sale to churches. In no way does the approval of one version of American Port either include or exclude other versions of American Port. Every version must be evaluated (by the local bishop or his vicar) based on how it is made, and not on the name itself.
 
Fr David,

IIRC, true Port is made by adding wine spirits to the wine to arrest fermentation.

That seems in accord with what is stated in the Catholic Encyclopedia
To conserve weak and feeble wines, and in order to keep them from souring or spoiling during transportation, a small quantity of spirits of wine (grape brandy or alcohol) may be added, provided the following conditions are observed (1) The added spirit (alcohol) must have been distilled from the grape (ex genimime vitis); (2) the quantity of alcohol added, together with that which the wine contained naturally after fermentation, must not exceed eighteen per cent of the whole; (3) the addition must be made during the process of fermentation (S. Romana et Univ. Inquis., 5 August, 1896).
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newadvent.org/cathen/01358a.htm

That seems to fit in with my understanding of how true Port is made.

So what makes true Port not valid matter?
 
Brendan said:
Fr David,

IIRC, true Port is made by adding wine spirits to the wine to arrest fermentation.

That seems in accord with what is stated in the Catholic Encyclopedia

newadvent.org/cathen/01358a.htm

That seems to fit in with my understanding of how true Port is made.

So what makes true Port not valid matter?
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From what I understand, true Port Wine (from Portugal) typically has more than the maximum 18% alcohol. I did a very quick internet search for the term and clicked on the first retailer I found. I quickly checked the most popular true Ports. Every one I found had at least 20% alcohol. I was not thorough, and that was not a scientific or scholarly search. Just a quick check to have some references.

Once again, the question misses the point.

It is not about what name is given to the wine. It’s not about what is written on the label. It is about the wine itself. It is about how it was made, and from what ingredients, and how the process has been altered (or not),

If a wine is certified by legitimate ecclesiastical authority (usually the local bishop) then that wine can be used at Mass in good conscience. This is true no matter what kind of name it has, nor whatever else is printed on the label (“blackberry notes” or “hints of strawberry” etc.). When a bishop (or his vicar) investigates a wine for use at Mass, there are several criteria involved, not just one or two.

So once again, it is not the name of the wine or the label that determines if it’s valid matter.
To anticipate another question: I know many readers are asking “why 18%”? The answer is that yeast can survive in an environment of 18%. Beyond that, the alcohol kills the yeast. For that reason, if alcohol is above 18% it’s a situation that cannot happen naturally.
 
I am from Portugal and many Parishes there use real Port Wine specifically made for the Mass.
It usually is within 15-18% alcoholic rate and it is usually white.
By the way, the “fortification” done to Port Wine isn’t with Brandy, it’s with a neutral “Firewater” (aguardente vinica) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguardiente#Portugal

@FrDavid, most of the Port wine above 20% alcoholic content is red.
White Port Wine can range from 16 to 20%.

God bless,
D.
 
dskysmine said:
I am from Portugal and many Parishes there use real Port Wine specifically made for the Mass.
It usually is within 15-18% alcoholic rate and it is usually white.
By the way, the “fortification” done to Port Wine isn’t with Brandy, it’s with a neutral “Firewater” (aguardente vinica) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aguardiente#Portugal

God bless,
D.
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“Specifically made for the Mass” is important. The ones typically exported to the U.S. are for general consumption; they’re not intended for use at Mass.

It does not surprise me at all that a place known for its fine wines would use local wines for Mass (I would be surprised if they did not).

But once, again, the criteria is what’s in the bottle, not what’s on the label*.
I’m referring to names and descriptions. Obviously, if the label includes a statement authorized by the bishop that the wine is valid matter for use at the altar, that is very relevant.
 
FrDavid96 said:
“Specifically made for the Mass” is important. The ones typically exported to the U.S. are for general consumption; they’re not intended for use at Mass.

It does not surprise me at all that a place known for its fine wines would use local wines for Mass (I would be surprised if they did not).

But once, again, the criteria is what’s in the bottle, not what’s on the label*.
I’m referring to names and descriptions. Obviously, if the label includes a statement authorized by the bishop that the wine is valid matter for use at the altar, that is very relevant.
Click to expand...
To be honest the “specifically made for the Mass” doesn’t necessarily mean that the process in making them is different than the normal one. In Portugal it was just a way for some Winemakers to make more money from the Church.
This led to the Bishop of Braga (35 miles north of Porto) to lead the creation of a new Wine generally called “Vinho de Braga” that is a lot cheaper (5.5 euros vs a 12 euros mark for the Port).

God bless,
D.
 
dskysmine said:
To be honest the “specifically made for the Mass” doesn’t necessarily mean that the process in making them is different than the normal one. In Portugal it was just a way for some Winemakers to make more money from the Church.
This led to the Bishop of Braga (35 miles north of Porto) to lead the creation of a new Wine generally called “Vinho de Braga” that is a lot cheaper (5.5 euros vs a 12 euros mark for the Port).

God bless,
D.
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Regardless of the reason why they started doing it, the wine meets the criteria of the Church for valid matter. That’s what is important. In one way or another, that message has been communicated to the priests: “this wine is valid for use at Mass.”

In contrast to that, the typical true Port that is exported to the U.S. is likely to be something different. That’s why, generally speaking, true Port (typically red, unless it’s labeled as “white port”) that one might find in a typical wine shop is not valid matter. That’s what prompted the OP’s question—the fact that it’s widely known in the U.S. that true red Port from Portugal is usually not valid matter.
 
dskysmine said:
To be honest the “specifically made for the Mass” doesn’t necessarily mean that the process in making them is different than the normal one. In Portugal it was just a way for some Winemakers to make more money from the Church.
This led to the Bishop of Braga (35 miles north of Porto) to lead the creation of a new Wine generally called “Vinho de Braga” that is a lot cheaper (5.5 euros vs a 12 euros mark for the Port).

God bless,
D.
Click to expand...
Reading you comments is making me want to taste some of that 👍
 
thistle said:
Brandy may be acceptable to Protestants but it is NOT permitted in a Catholic Mass. As Father David said it does not matter anyway for Protestants as their priests/ministers do not have valid orders.
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I said port wine, not brandy. While port does include brandy as a fortifying agent, it can also be 100% natural. Same with something like “Angelica” wine It too is fortified with brandy and was originally formulated for use during the celebration of the Mass to keep from spoiling.

No prohibition against using port wine during the celebration of the Mass.

Your Protestant comment is a red herring in this context.
 
FrDavid96 said:
"Specifically made for the Mass" is important. The ones typically exported to the U.S. are for general consumption; they’re not intended for use at Mass.

It does not surprise me at all that a place known for its fine wines would use local wines for Mass (I would be surprised if they did not).

But once, again, the criteria is what’s in the bottle, not what’s on the label*.
I’m referring to names and descriptions. Obviously, if the label includes a statement authorized by the bishop that the wine is valid matter for use at the altar, that is very relevant.
Click to expand...
No, it’s not. “Sacramental wines” are a rip-off. It needs to be wine made from grape juice. It can even include sulfites (which almost all do.) It cannot be sake or apricot wine for instance.

If the wine has additives (like sulfites), it must be noted on the label in the US. I don’t know of too many sacramental wine that are “authorized” by a bishop.
 
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