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TevereNauta
Guest
For you Anna
God bless you for your courage! Hang in there, be the leaven, and the Lord will be with you!
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Peter_J
Guest
ACNA?
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jwinch2
Guest
I have come to believe that the best hope for those members of the Anglican Church who wish for tradition is reunion with the Catholic Church via one of the Ordinariates or the Pastoral Provision. The other option is Western Rite Orthodoxy I suppose, but from what I have seen, there is not as much emphasis on Anglican spirituality as there seems to be in the Anglican use parishes who have come into the Catholic Church.
I don’t see even a strong and traditional Archbishop of Canterbury being able to make enough headway to stem the bleeding, let alone begin the healing. Things have gone too far astray and the Communion is too decentralized to make the kind of sweeping change which is needed.
I don’t see even a strong and traditional Archbishop of Canterbury being able to make enough headway to stem the bleeding, let alone begin the healing. Things have gone too far astray and the Communion is too decentralized to make the kind of sweeping change which is needed.
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Marybeloved
Guest
How right you are, TeveraNuata! And I’ve also wondered the same thing you have about England’s (and now, Canada’s as well) attitue towars traditional Christianity. My Country is Christian because of mostly British missionaries, who just about a century ago came here and evangelized the entire population and built excellent schools and hospitals. I can’t believe how much the world has changed in such few short decades! I tell you, the world wars did more than kill a large number of people- They literally destroyed Christianity (with the help of communism and its off-shoots, of course).My prayers are with you in your fight to preserve Christianity within the Church of England Anna (and TEC & TAC to boot). For all our doctrinal disagreements, the Church of England did great work in evangelization in her day…though, naturally, I cannot really be enthusiastic over her genesis. I also notice how Dr. Williams seems to have a very close relationship, friendship, with the Holy Father – the Ecumenical Service in Westminster was one of the most beautiful events I’ve ever seen. I will take my lead from Benedict XVI, the Vicar of Christ, and do all I can to foster unity and friendship with my Christian brothers and sisters.
I would caution my brothers and sister in the Roman Church not to take pleasure in the Church of England’s distress, in fact Christians of every type are being savaged by secularism, anti-theism, and a kind of radical atheism embodied by Dawkins and his ilk. In America the Episcopal Church was once known as the Republican Party at prayer…that was a while ago now I think. I hope that our common distresses will help foster an Ecumenical spirit, however. We are all Christians, and if we don’t hang together we shall certainly hang apart…I say that because I saw a radical goth type on the street the other day with a t-shirt that read: “So many Christians, so few lions.”
Indeed the new Archbishop will have nothing les than herculean tasks before him. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, what on earth is going on in England, Britain, to turn people against Christianity so? And I’m not speaking of Muslim immigrants, but of the native secularist crowd. For all the secularism here in the states, the rank and file folks still treasure their Christianity. At least, for now. I’m not optimistic about the future. The West has gone from ‘Happy Days’ in the 60s to the Days of Noah redux in but a few generations.
:nope:
I am definitely NOT cheering what is happening in Anglicanism today. Indeed it makes me very sad. Tendencies of thought seem generally to spread between Christian communions. I think that every time there is a radical liberal take-over of a traditional Christian communion, it serves to normalize the bizzare stuff they (liberalism) teach and then soon, it becomes everyone else’s problem in the Christian world.
I even remember that Archbishop William was under a lot of pressure from the Late Blessed John Paul II the Great to preserve the Holy scripture from erroneous interpretations within his communion when the Anglicans nearly spilt over the ordination of an openly homosexual Bishop back in the early 2000s. I think that this was the reason. The Pope recognized that a defeat of Orthodoxy to radical heterodoxy within Anglicanism is a problem for all Christendom. Honestly, heading that communion in this day and age is one tough job.
A renewal within that communion (of traditional Christian beliefs and values) can’t come fast enough for me.
Peace and Prayers to all Anglicans.
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liturgyluver
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Lest we Catholics get complacent… let us not forget that mass attendance in the UK has fallen by 49% between 1989 and 2005 ( the comparable figure for the CofE was 31%). This was a much bigger drop than the preceeding 15 years. And how many new priests were ordained into the Catholic Church in England and Wales last year? …19.
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Peter_J
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Ah yes, the “scavengers” discussion again.
But I don’t know why you say “The other option is Western Rite Orthodoxy”. Don’t you think ex-Anglicans also become Eastern Rite Orthodox?
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tomarin
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(post shortened by Tomarin)
A lot of the write-ups on this story (well I’m talking about National Review so perhaps this is not surprising) go further than that and portray him as a sort of Pope of Relativism who reflexively despises the West and is therefore a poor caretaker of its values. Just for the sake of balance I’ve been wanting to read a take on Williams and his legacy from a more sympathetic source.
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Anna_Scott
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Marybeloved,
I think you are absolutely correct in saying that a defeat of orthodoxy to radical heterodoxy within Anglicanism is a problem for all of Christendom.
I often wonder what the state of the Anglican Communion would be like, if all conservative Christians remained in the Communion to fight for a restoration of orthodoxy.
As it is now, the orthodox are leaving and more liberals are coming in.
I fear that those of us remaining to fight for orthodoxy are fighting a losing battle. Only time will tell.
Thanks for your prayers for Anglicans. We desperately need them.
Peace,
Anna
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dcointin
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I have a very dear friend I went to college with who is now an Anglican priest. We attended the same college for Lutheran pre-seminary studies, but when I decided not to attend seminary and become Orthodox, he went on to seminary and there decided to become Anglican. He finished his studies at Nashotah House, and is now a priest in Louisianna. We share exactly the same faith, although in different communions, and I have the utmost respect for his work to promote orthodox Anglicanism from within it. I had the pleasure of meeting Bishop Ackerman with him, who is an absolutely wonderful man. He actually had a bit of fun with me: my friend was helping him unvest after liturgy, and Ackerman handed me his vestements, knowing that I couldn’t take them without a blessing. When I froze with a confused look on my face he started laughing then blessed me to touch them
While he’s retired now, I pray that God would strengthen his brothers in the good fight.
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GKC
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I thought you might be. And 2-3 others wonder, if I go a few posts without saying it, I bet.
GKC
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jwinch2
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Call if what you like. I don’t see it so much as scavengers but rather than I see Anglicanism as having reached a point of no return in terms of their beliefs and practices.
Anglicans can certainly become Eastern Rite Orthodox should they like. However, if they wish to retain aspects of their liturgy which are familiar to them, they would be able to do this more effectively through the Western Rite.
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Peter_J
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Please clarify: do you use “Anglicanism” interchangeably with “Anglican Communion”?
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Peter_J
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I suppose you’re right, especially considering that with respect to Anglican parishes becoming Catholic, I’ve never once heard of one becoming EC. (Although perhaps someone else here has.)
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jwinch2
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I haven’t either, but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. There are two Western Rite Orthodox parishes where I live that both used to be Anglican. In addition, here is a thread on the subject in case you haven’t seen it yet and are interested.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=634569
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jwinch2
Guest
Not really, or if I did, it was unintentional. I see the Anglican Communion as a body called to perpetuate and protect Anglicanism. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that I feel that at large, the Anglican Communion has not done so and thus, Anglicanism itself is in grave danger.
I recognize that is a oversimplification of a complex issue.
I also think it is important to note that I certainly do rejoice in the return of Anglicans to the Catholic Church, but I take no pleasure in seeing the things which have happened in the Anglican Church at large, take place.
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andrewstx
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I think the CofE and TECUSA are making themselves close to extinction by their own policies.
Mark this up to the Elizabethan settlement where QEI decided she wanted everyone of her subjects in the same church regardless of their beliefs.
So you have Orthodox and heterodox in the same ecclesial body, and none with more authority than the other.
Anglicans can belive in transubstantiation or a symbolic Lord’s Supper and they both can use the same Book of Common Prayer to back themselves up.
Mark this up to the Elizabethan settlement where QEI decided she wanted everyone of her subjects in the same church regardless of their beliefs.
So you have Orthodox and heterodox in the same ecclesial body, and none with more authority than the other.
Anglicans can belive in transubstantiation or a symbolic Lord’s Supper and they both can use the same Book of Common Prayer to back themselves up.
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Cavaradossi
Guest
Slightly off topic, but if you don’t mind sharing, what made you decide not to go into seminary once you became Orthodox? Was it related at all to coming into Orthodoxy? The Antiochians make great use of convert priests, from what I have noticed.I have a very dear friend I went to college with who is now an Anglican priest. We attended the same college for Lutheran pre-seminary studies, but when I decided not to attend seminary and become Orthodox, he went on to seminary and there decided to become Anglican. He finished his studies at Nashotah House, and is now a priest in Louisianna. We share exactly the same faith, although in different communions, and I have the utmost respect for his work to promote orthodox Anglicanism from within it. I had the pleasure of meeting Bishop Ackerman with him, who is an absolutely wonderful man. He actually had a bit of fun with me: my friend was helping him unvest after liturgy, and Ackerman handed me his vestements, knowing that I couldn’t take them without a blessing. When I froze with a confused look on my face he started laughing then blessed me to touch them
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Peter_J
Guest
Consider this quote: “Neither Moscow nor Rome will give us unity”.
Now hold on a sec before you say :yawn: or :coffeeread:. The reason that is interesting is that it was not said by an Anglican (though I imagine many Anglicans applauded enthusiastically). It was said by Lubomyr Cardinal Husar.
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