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GKC
Guest
Nope. Not relevant. But the gracious Kathrine did precisely that. And other things.Me too. I just remember an earlier discussion about the nature of the TEC, w.r.t. HG Katherine seeking the extend the authority she wielded over dioceses.
Perhaps it’s not even relevant here. (Wouldn’t be the first time I’ve felt silly on this forum.)
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ChurchSoldier
Guest
Sort of. Several of the member organizations, but not all, of the ACNA such as CANA or PEAR are missionary Diocese connected to African Churches (Nigeria, Kenya) which ARE members of the Anglican Communion. This is one reason the ACNA and Gafcon have such a strong relationship. These “Missionary Diocese” were begun as lifeboats for Biblically orthodox Anglicans who wanted to be in a parish connected with Canterbury.It is an ACNA parish (I had checked this morning
I was just making sure that I understood that you can’t really overlay two different Anglican churches in the same geography. If you are theologically conservative in the US you currently have two choices. Suck it up and just bear what TEC proclaims or attend an Anglican church that is not in the communion. In many ways, that’s not any different than the RC in that you can’t simply go down the street and join a Catholic church that proclaims divorce, adoptionism, and 5 sacraments if that fits your leanings. I guess the main difference is in Anglicism one could go to a different region and have different canons and doctrines then over the border.
Again my apologies if I am misunderstanding how the communion and geographies work.
Don’t worry, no test will be given at the end of the thread
.
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ChurchSoldier
Guest
As with any family feud, there are more than enough pain and tears on both sides of the isle.I am a cradle Episcopalian with 16 years of Episcopal church schooling. I am also a catechist in our smallish (800 people) parish. Our youth formation is vibrant and devout, well-attended and well-supported, so I wouldn’t count the next generation of Episcopalians out just yet!
I appreciate those on this thread who have acknowledged the human hurt involved in the “wet noodle slap” from the Anglican community. Bishop Curry summed it up beautifully. I have seen some of that hurt up close and personal, tears down the faces and tears on the hearts of fellow Christians I love with all my soul.
Some years ago, there was a similar painful stretching surrounding TEC’s decision to allow women to serve as priests. But today, even those Episcopalians who were once horrified at the thought of women in the priesthood love our women who have answered God’s call. I suspect this issue will follow a similar path.
I feel blessed to be a member of the Episcopal Church. It has given me the world, which is to say it has given me the face of Jesus in the faces of all my fellows.
I understand that this is a devout Catholic board and that our ways are not exactly your ways and I am not here to change any minds. Much like the Anglican community, I consider the Catholic community our Christian brethren in all the ways that truly matter. In my mind, there’s no need small differences should separate us from the heart of a merciful God, lived out in the hearts of each other.
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CopyBoy
Guest
Anglican Split Is Really About Scriptural Authority, Not Gay Marriage
Read more at christianpost.com/news/anglican-split-is-really-about-scriptural-authority-not-gay-marriage-154734/#0emLR0FKfaz3jS6g.99
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Thorolfr
Guest
This probably is a big part of the disagreement. As the article says:
Unfortunately for the African bishop’s position, Scripture does need to be interpreted. It’s not all self evident.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
Welcome Little Sheep. What a great post!I am a cradle Episcopalian with 16 years of Episcopal church schooling. I am also a catechist in our smallish (800 people) parish. Our youth formation is vibrant and devout, well-attended and well-supported, so I wouldn’t count the next generation of Episcopalians out just yet!
I appreciate those on this thread who have acknowledged the human hurt involved in the “wet noodle slap” from the Anglican community. Bishop Curry summed it up beautifully. I have seen some of that hurt up close and personal, tears down the faces and tears on the hearts of fellow Christians I love with all my soul.
Some years ago, there was a similar painful stretching surrounding TEC’s decision to allow women to serve as priests. But today, even those Episcopalians who were once horrified at the thought of women in the priesthood love our women who have answered God’s call. I suspect this issue will follow a similar path.
I feel blessed to be a member of the Episcopal Church. It has given me the world, which is to say it has given me the face of Jesus in the faces of all my fellows.
I understand that this is a devout Catholic board and that our ways are not exactly your ways and I am not here to change any minds. Much like the Anglican community, I consider the Catholic community our Christian brethren in all the ways that truly matter. In my mind, there’s no need small differences should separate us from the heart of a merciful God, lived out in the hearts of each other.
I’m not Episcopalian but from what I have gathered, the nearest Episcopal church to me has vibrant youth as well. They take mission trips and are involved in parish life. There is a school and the parish offers a variety of services from the traditional ones Rites 1 and 2 on Sun morning to a Sat evening reflective healing service to a contemporary service which wraps up their weekend offerings. The mid Sun morning Rite 2 family service and the contemporary are their most attended. Another mission church nearby has an extensive outreach program for the homeless and needy. I was blessed to discover them after my mother passed and I needed a place to donate her clothing and was searching for a place where those in need would not be charged even a nominal amount. A Catholic parish near me collected items for the Goodwill store but it just wasn’t the route I wanted to take.
I love TEC along with other faith communities which stand for the inclusiveness Bishop Curry spoke of and in all aspects of the life of their faith communities. I currently listen to a podcast of a female Episcopal priest’s sermon and find her to be for me an inspirational speaker.
I agree. In my mind too, those believing in one God and in one Christ are united on the one most important of all, Whom breaks down walls, and there’s no reason why we can not be part of the same worshiping family even if we have our differences on something like homosexuality. I actually had another female Episcopal priest tell me that. As I see it, family members have their many differences but are still family. It is going to be interesting to see what the AC does in regard to TEC in the future. In any case, my heart is with all of you in TEC at this time and God’s continued blessings along whatever future direction the path takes. Peace be with each of you along the way.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
That’s something I don’t understand about TEC repenting. If TEC doesn’t interpret something to be sin, why would they repent?
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Sy_Noe
Guest
I had missed this before my previous post.Yes, indeed. Answering Christ’s call stretches us all. I can’t opine where this might all “end.” Will TEC pull away or join the Lutherans or repent? These are questions for the Ages, I suppose…until the Ages are here.
I will opine that, imho, TEC will not “repent” of something it does not perceive as sin. The rest of it is in God’s hands. I only know that the decision of the Anglican primates will not change the day to day life of my parish in any meaningful way. And, for me, that’s a good thing! We have bigger fish to fry!
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Sy_Noe
Guest
You forgot UCC.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
I’ll leave it to our Episcopalian friends if they would repent, for instance, robbing and murdering someone walking down the street.
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sps49
Guest
Ahh, a reasoned reply. Well, no matter. The Episcopal Church will double down on their victim and modern progressive prophesy and elastic scriptural interpretation narrative so keenly honed by Katharine Jefferts Schori. The TEC extended train wreck will linger on for a bit longer.You forgot UCC.
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ChurchSoldier
Guest
I think one of the major issues is in the thought expressed at the beginning of paragraph 11. “Doctrine is a matter for each province…”. While proscribed by tradition, classic Church teaching and the 39 Articles, it is this type of reasoning which must be made to fit TECs teaching within the bounds of Christian or Anglican faith.
archbishopcranmer.com/anglican-primates-pronounce-but-the-holy-spirit-prevails/
archbishopcranmer.com/anglican-primates-pronounce-but-the-holy-spirit-prevails/
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GKC
Guest
The Articles, per se, are not normative for any Anglican (except, in theory, for clergy of the CoE, per the Subscription Act/1571. Any Anglican entity may adopt whatever approach to them they wish (and many of them are basically Trinitarian Christianity), but they are not an Anglican Confession.
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Peter_J
Guest
I know you’re kidding, but something like that did come up. link
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Peter_J
Guest
At the risk of eliciting groans, with all this talk about repentance maybe I should ask the Anglicans here when they will repent of being non-Catholic. 
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theropod
Guest
I think you mean repent of not acknowledging Papal supremacy.At the risk of eliciting groans, with all this talk about repentance maybe I should ask the Anglicans here when they will repent of being non-Catholic.
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GKC
Guest
I would have thought you knew me better than that.At the risk of eliciting groans, with all this talk about repentance maybe I should ask the Anglicans here when they will repent of being non-Catholic.
GKC, Anglicanus-Catholicus
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Graceful_Lamb
Guest
I’m planning on being on the River Swim Team for Easter Vigil 2017.At the risk of eliciting groans, with all this talk about repentance maybe I should ask the Anglicans here when they will repent of being non-Catholic.
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Sy_Noe
Guest
The Rev. Gay Clark Jennings, president of the Episcopal Church’s House of Deputies, sent the following letter to deputies and alternate deputies concerning the actions taken by the Primates Meeting to impose consequences on the church for its actions on same-sex marriage.
January 15, 2016
Dear Deputies and Alternate Deputies:
Many of you have received the news that the meeting of Anglican primates that has just concluded in Canterbury has voted to issue what it calls “consequences” to the Episcopal Church for our full inclusion of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people in our common life.
This news may be painful for some of us, particularly for LGBT people who have been excluded too often and for too long by families, churches, schools, and other institutions mired in homophobia. It may also be hurtful or unsettling to those of us who value our mission relationships with Anglicans across the Communion.
I want to assure you that nothing about what the primates have said will change the actions of General Convention that have, over the past four decades, moved us toward full inclusion and equal marriage. And regardless of the primates’ vote, we Episcopalians will continue working with Anglicans across the globe to feed the hungry, care for the sick, educate children, and heal the world. Nothing that happens at a primates’ meeting will change our love for one another or our commitment to serving God together. I commend to you Presiding Bishop Michael Curry’s powerful statement on just this theme.
The practical consequences of the primates’ action will be that, for three years, Episcopalians will not be invited to serve on certain committees, or will be excluded from voting while they are there. However, the primates do not have authority over the Anglican Consultative Council, the worldwide body of bishops, clergy and lay people that facilitates the cooperative work of the churches of the Anglican Communion. I serve as a representative to that body, along with Bishop Ian Douglas of Connecticut, a four-time deputy before his election as bishop, and six-time Deputy Rosalie Simmonds Ballentine of the Virgin Islands, and I am planning to travel to Zambia for our scheduled meeting in April and to participate fully.
The people most likely to suffer from this news are faithful LGBTI Anglicans and their allies, especially in Africa. I count many of them as my friends and colleagues, and today I am especially praying that this new message of exclusion does not fuel more hatred and homophobia and make them even more vulnerable to violence and discrimination than they already are. In their communiqué, the primates: “condemned homophobic prejudice and violence” and “reaffirmed their rejection of criminal sanctions against same-sex attracted people.” I was heartened to read these words, but mindful that I have read a similar statement from a previous primates meeting. I hope that this time, the primates mean what they have said.
Please join me in renewing our commitment to General Convention Resolution A051 which calls us to use resources developed by African Anglicans working to curb anti-gay and anti-transgender violence and discrimination; to build relationships with and learn from African Anglican scholars whose biblical interpretations affirm the dignity and humanity of LGBTI people; and “to pray for the safety of our LGBTI sisters and brothers, their families and communities, and for the scholars and activists who tirelessly work on their behalf.”
Three times in the last five years, I have traveled to Africa to study and pray with Anglican Africans and African LGBTI activists. These consultations, held in South Africa in 2011, Kenya in 2013, and Ghana in 2015, have given me the gift of friends and colleagues across Anglican Africa who are deeply committed to our communion, to the dignity and inclusion of LGBTI people in the church, and to justice for all of God’s people. Today, as we adjust to the news that our stand for God’s all-inclusive love will have some consequences, I am mindful of the statement that my colleagues and I released at the end of our time together in Ghana a few months ago. In it, we pledged “to make safe the road from Jericho to Jerusalem that is walked by everyone who strives for just and fair societies and full inclusion in the Body of Christ.” Today we are walking the road from Jericho to Jerusalem together, and we are doing so in the company of Christ.
Faithfully,
Gay Clark Jennings
President
episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2016/01/15/on-the-primates-meeting-a-letter-from-the-house-of-deputies-president/
January 15, 2016
Dear Deputies and Alternate Deputies:
Many of you have received the news that the meeting of Anglican primates that has just concluded in Canterbury has voted to issue what it calls “consequences” to the Episcopal Church for our full inclusion of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people in our common life.
This news may be painful for some of us, particularly for LGBT people who have been excluded too often and for too long by families, churches, schools, and other institutions mired in homophobia. It may also be hurtful or unsettling to those of us who value our mission relationships with Anglicans across the Communion.
I want to assure you that nothing about what the primates have said will change the actions of General Convention that have, over the past four decades, moved us toward full inclusion and equal marriage. And regardless of the primates’ vote, we Episcopalians will continue working with Anglicans across the globe to feed the hungry, care for the sick, educate children, and heal the world. Nothing that happens at a primates’ meeting will change our love for one another or our commitment to serving God together. I commend to you Presiding Bishop Michael Curry’s powerful statement on just this theme.
The practical consequences of the primates’ action will be that, for three years, Episcopalians will not be invited to serve on certain committees, or will be excluded from voting while they are there. However, the primates do not have authority over the Anglican Consultative Council, the worldwide body of bishops, clergy and lay people that facilitates the cooperative work of the churches of the Anglican Communion. I serve as a representative to that body, along with Bishop Ian Douglas of Connecticut, a four-time deputy before his election as bishop, and six-time Deputy Rosalie Simmonds Ballentine of the Virgin Islands, and I am planning to travel to Zambia for our scheduled meeting in April and to participate fully.
The people most likely to suffer from this news are faithful LGBTI Anglicans and their allies, especially in Africa. I count many of them as my friends and colleagues, and today I am especially praying that this new message of exclusion does not fuel more hatred and homophobia and make them even more vulnerable to violence and discrimination than they already are. In their communiqué, the primates: “condemned homophobic prejudice and violence” and “reaffirmed their rejection of criminal sanctions against same-sex attracted people.” I was heartened to read these words, but mindful that I have read a similar statement from a previous primates meeting. I hope that this time, the primates mean what they have said.
Please join me in renewing our commitment to General Convention Resolution A051 which calls us to use resources developed by African Anglicans working to curb anti-gay and anti-transgender violence and discrimination; to build relationships with and learn from African Anglican scholars whose biblical interpretations affirm the dignity and humanity of LGBTI people; and “to pray for the safety of our LGBTI sisters and brothers, their families and communities, and for the scholars and activists who tirelessly work on their behalf.”
Three times in the last five years, I have traveled to Africa to study and pray with Anglican Africans and African LGBTI activists. These consultations, held in South Africa in 2011, Kenya in 2013, and Ghana in 2015, have given me the gift of friends and colleagues across Anglican Africa who are deeply committed to our communion, to the dignity and inclusion of LGBTI people in the church, and to justice for all of God’s people. Today, as we adjust to the news that our stand for God’s all-inclusive love will have some consequences, I am mindful of the statement that my colleagues and I released at the end of our time together in Ghana a few months ago. In it, we pledged “to make safe the road from Jericho to Jerusalem that is walked by everyone who strives for just and fair societies and full inclusion in the Body of Christ.” Today we are walking the road from Jericho to Jerusalem together, and we are doing so in the company of Christ.
Faithfully,
Gay Clark Jennings
President
episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2016/01/15/on-the-primates-meeting-a-letter-from-the-house-of-deputies-president/
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