Breaking free from Sedevacantism

[commenter]

I try to walk a fine line between Liberalism and Traditionalism. I appreciate the Latin Mass but usually attend the OF in my parish. My pastor is solidly orthodox. Sometimes you need to go to another parish in union with the diocese to find orthodoxy.

Many today are caught up in a movement I call Solo Traditio. This means Tradition alone is the guide, and that any Catholic can interpret Tradition, without the current Magisterium.

St Pius X encyclicals are useful today. He is often quoted regarding orthodox doctrine but also described orthodox practice - the Laity and pastors united with their bishop ordinary, Catholic communications united with the bishop ordinary, the bishops united with each other (not just sacramental ministers), and with the Holy See.

 

[Cruciferi]

However, my family (who is deeply and staunchly sedevecantist) does not know of my decision, and I dread telling them

Are you an adult living on your own? In which case, you don’t need to discuss this issue with them.

I feel confused because I do not know who to turn to.

You should contact your Diocese and begin meeting with a Priest in good standing with the Catholic Church.

And there are no decent churches nearby where I live.

But there are Catholic Churches?

I have a lot of questions, so I would appreciate it so much if somebody would help me with them.

That’s why I strongly recommend getting in contact with your Diocese. I’m sure that if you explain your situation, they can get you in contact with a Priest who can sort out these questions and concerns.

 

[phil3]

Just because Jesus made that promise, doesnt mean Francis is a good pope. Lots the problems in the church today are due to bad decisions made by JPII, Benedict, and a huge heaping for Francis. Had, JPII and Benedict done more to expose the child molestation. Hundreds of thousands if not millions would not have left the church. If Francis would stop with the “it’s my way or the highway”. More Catholics would feel welcome in the church.

We have had several terrible popes and many just poor at the job. If there is a split and I believe there will be if francis keeps up his anti traditionalist rants, it still will not damage the faith. Didnt destroy it the first time and wont the second time

 

[ELCore]

Sedevacantism was anathematized by the Vatican Council, July 18, 1870 (emphasis added):

Si quis ergo dixerit, non esse ex ipsius Christi Domini institutione seu iure divino, ut beatus Petrus in primatu super universam Ecclesiam habeat perpetuos successores; aut Romanum Pontificem non esse beati Petri in eodem primatu successorem; anathema sit.

If, then, anyone shall say that it is not by the institution of Christ the Lord, or by divine right, that Blessed Peter has a perpetual line of successors in the primacy over the universal Church or that the Roman Pontiff is not the successor of Blessed Peter in this primacy; let him be anathema.

(Pastor aeternus, Constitutio dogmatica prima de Ecclesia Christi, Caput II, “De Perpetuitate Primatus Beati Petri in Romanis Pontificibus”)

 

[Bataar]

What is it about the Novus Ordo that appeals to you more than Sedevacantism?

 

[DisorientingSneeze]

What is it about the Novus Ordo that appeals to you more than Sedevacantism?

You can attend Extraordinary Form Masses where the priest and parishioners do not reject the pope. It isn’t either or.

 

[BlueMaxx]

Jesus said things were going to get worse…so why is it a surprise?

Most the letters Paul wrote to the various churches was correcting them already on bad teaching and sinfulness, and Christ hadn’t even been gone long.

His promise will not be broken, hell will not prevail against the church.

Stay the course, and practice what Christ taught us.

 

[Randolph]

What also bugs me about the Sedevecantists is their saying that the Church is an apostate, a false, evil, heretical Church, etc… ummm…is that what they are calling the Holy Mother Church? They dare to call the Church that Jesus established false and evil?

What???.. The current Catholic Church, with a validly elected pope in Pope Francis, is “an antiChurch and not a real Roman Catholic Church that was founded by Christ”??? What an arrogant and pompous statement!!! Who are they to declare that?? These people are no than a schismatic group of individuals who chose to disobey the Holy Father and the Holy Church. They chose to separate themselves from the Catholic Church. These people have authority on Church matters other than a fake authority they conveniently grant to themselves—which is nothing…

It is true that there was a confusing time during the Western Schism where there were “popes” who claimed to be the valid pope. But, in the end, the Church sorted it out and restored the rightful pope, and maintained the papal succession. This was yet another example where Christ kept His promise to protect the Church—His faithful bride. Currently, it is true that the Church is facing serious dangers and confusions in matters of doctrines and faith, and that history has also shown there were problematic/bad popes. But the faithful has always chosen to remain obedient and faithful to the Holy Catholic Church and to the Holy Father—while entrusting their hope and faith that God will guide the Church.

 

[TMS1213]

I think in the case of the validity issue, it isn’t a matter of whether it is valid or not, but whether it feeds the faith. Valid, doesn’t necessarily equal beneficial. Look at all of the other accepted Rites of the Church. I don’t believe that any others have two ‘forms’ of their liturgy. Undoubtedly, the EF of the Mass expresses the faith in greater depth.

 

[TMS1213]

I think that we, as Catholics, in a sense, get what we deserve from our leadership due to the fact that there are a great many among st us who do not live Catholic lives, or choose 'cafeteria" style Catholicism as their religion. Catholicism, in it’s truest sense, is not for the weak kneed. It is and can be difficult to live by, but on the other side of the coin, it is THE means to eternal salvation. One must ask themselves what is important in their life.

 

[TMS1213]

As it regards the priest facing the altar; it is he who is leading us, the congregation, in prayer, thus he face the altar, God Himself.
From a perspective standpoint, if you closely observe depictions of the Last Supper, Christ is not facing away from the Apostles, but they are somewhat at his side, rather than directly across from Him.

 

[Mac]

As a former sedevacantist I can tell you why I left the position

Sedevacantism is an opinion. Privet individuals do not have the authority to depose a pope.

After 60 years of no Pope, we have no bishops with ordinary juristiction (authority to teach and govern) this is impossible because the Church must always have the mark of FORMAL apostalic succession.

With no legitimate Bishops left and no true Cardinals left, the Church. Lost its entire hierarchy.

Therefore it’s no longer a visible Church, no longer a Church with the attribute of Authority.

These conclusions are contrary to the doctrine on the Church. Read about the Mark’s and atributes of the Church in the Baltimore Caticism #3

Another reason I left sedevacantism is I realised that I’m perfectly FREE to believe and practice the Catholic faith inside the institutional Church.

Inspite of all the crazy things that happened after V 2, not one of them has been placed on me as an obligation of faith.

I still believe EXACTLY as I did before, and still exclusively attended the TLM

 

[Mac]

Sorry for the double post , just want to add,
I was a devoted sedevacantist for nearly 20 years. Once I started to question sedevacantism,

It took me 3 years of prayer and agony , countless hours of research to break the hold that it had on me.
Near the end of my struggle,
I got my hands on John Salza s book True or False Pope.

It confirmed my research and opened my eyes to many other points I didn’t know about.

Every Traditional Catholic should have a copy of this book as a resource.

Also this change in position happened only a few months ago, so I’m right there with you Send me an email and we can talk sometime, this is a HARD thing to go thru by your self

 

[ELCore]

Sedevacantism was anathematized by the Vatican Council, July 18, 1870

Yes, it was. Most, if not all, sedevacantists think the last valid pope was Pius XII. He died the year I was born, and I am 61. Thus, they think six decades have passed since we had a real pope. Thus, according to their way of thinking, all of the real cardinals, who could have voted for a real pope, have been dead for decades. Though both popes St. Paul VI and St. John Paul II made some changes to the law concerning the election of a pope, the substance of the law is still, and has been for centuries, that the pope is elected by the cardinals. According to sedevacantists, there cannot be any real cardinals left, and there is no real pope to appoint any real cardinals — and, consequently, there never will be. If they equivocate about what they think, it’s because they know their position was anathematized by the Vatican Council in 1870.

 

[Margaret_Ann]

Near the end of my struggle,
I got my hands on John Salza s book True or False Pope.

It confirmed my research and opened my eyes to many other points I didn’t know about.

Every Traditional Catholic should have a copy of this book as a resource.

This book (+ the grace of God!) actually saved me from falling into sedevacantism.

I heartily second your suggestion. This book is essential reading in my opinion.

 

[Randolph]

Possibly. I’m not one of them, so I won’t say they’re right. But I will say that they would just respond:

“You are a schismatic who choses to disobey the Holy Church by recognizing an anti-pope.”

I understand your point. So in their world without the pope, their “schismatic” bishops continue to ordain bishops and priests, and they maintain their “catholicity” that way…

 

[tori2323]

Oh, no! Don’t worry: I didn’t get that impression from you.

 

[tori2323]

For me personally, I try to hold a balance between liberalism and conservatism in the religious sense. Yes, we should preserve the beauty of the Tradition of the Catholic Faith, and on the other hand, the Church should evolve (in a way that does not affect the Faith, of course!)

 

[tori2323]

tori2323:

However, my family (who is deeply and staunchly sedevecantist) does not know of my decision, and I dread telling them

Are you an adult living on your own? In which case, you don’t need to discuss this issue with them.

I am a young adult who currently lives with my family. I do not have my own car yet so I cannot drive myself to a different church.

I feel confused because I do not know who to turn to.

You should contact your Diocese and begin meeting with a Priest in good standing with the Catholic Church.

And there are no decent churches nearby where I live.

But there are Catholic Churches?

Yes, there are other Catholic Churches, but they are not very reverent. They seem to be the more modern, mainstream type of churches that I do not enjoy attending.

I have a lot of questions, so I would appreciate it so much if somebody would help me with them.

That’s why I strongly recommend getting in contact with your Diocese. I’m sure that if you explain your situation, they can get you in contact with a Priest who can sort out these questions and concerns.

I will see if I can do that. I pray that God will direct me in the right path. At this time in my life, trusting in God is high on my list of priorities

 

[tori2323]

For me, Sedevecantism is a form of escapism, living in the 1958 bubble (since they believe that Pius XII, who died in 1958, was the last true pope), therefore, for them, everything, and I mean everything has to be what it was like in 1958, before “everything fell apart”. I feel like they are stuck in the past and do not seem to realize that the Church has always moved forward with the times. If you look at the history of the Church for 2000 years, you will see that. And the Faith was not affected in any way. The Church has always adapted to the changes in the world, without endangering the Faith.
I have difficulty understanding why Sedevecantists, to cite a minor example, do not like the Mass being said in one’s native tongue. I know this is an example I’ve used before, and I know this is a small example compared to others, but the Church is allowed to make a change like that. That type of adaption can be allowed. Now, women priests, for example, now that is a big fat NO. That “adaption” or “change” can never be allowed by the Church. I hope you see the point I am trying to get across here.

Now, I myself am heartbroken at what is going on in the Church today, with the scandals, the liturgical abuses, and so on, and trust me, I am not one of those “Vatican 2 did absolutely no wrong” type of people. However, I am also not one of those “Vatican 2 is evil and false” type of people. (I believe that the Vatican Council did some good, and indeed, had a lot of potential, but alas, it was greatly abused which resulted in the crises which we see today)

I hope I answered your question well.