Breaking Point [Immigration]

[gilliam]

An interview with my congressman. He pretty much tells it the way it is:

Arizona congressman J. D. Hayworth on immigration.

Q&A by Kathryn Jean Lopez
“If Congress should ever send a guest-worker plan to the president for enactment, I think it may just seal our doom come November.”

So warns Arizona Republican J. D. Hayworth, now in his sixth term in Congress, in an interview with National Review Online Editor Kathryn Lopez. Hayworth is the author of Whatever It Takes: Illegal Immigration, Border Security, and the War on Terror, written with Joseph Eule.

Kathryn Jean Lopez: How bad is illegal immigration in Arizona?

nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/interrogatory/hayworth200604030731.asp

 

[davy39]

gilliam:

An interview with my congressman. He pretty much tells it the way it is:

Arizona congressman J. D. Hayworth on immigration.

Q&A by Kathryn Jean Lopez
“If Congress should ever send a guest-worker plan to the president for enactment, I think it may just seal our doom come November.”

So warns Arizona Republican J. D. Hayworth, now in his sixth term in Congress, in an interview with National Review Online Editor Kathryn Lopez. Hayworth is the author of Whatever It Takes: Illegal Immigration, Border Security, and the War on Terror, written with Joseph Eule.

Kathryn Jean Lopez: How bad is illegal immigration in Arizona?

nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/interrogatory/hayworth200604030731.asp

A very good interview! This should be required reading for everybody on this forum, that favors the “come one, come all” border policy we seem to have now. As I said in a previous thread, most of these people are not interested in learing english, signing up for anything, taking background checks, or any of the gibberish proposed in some of the upcoming legislation. We are being invaded by people from a foreign country, plain and simple. I wonder how long an american flag would fly down in Mexico?

 

[mary_bobo]

davy39:

A very good interview! This should be required reading for everybody on this forum, that favors the “come one, come all” border policy we seem to have now. As I said in a previous thread, most of these people are not interested in learing english, signing up for anything, taking background checks, or any of the gibberish proposed in some of the upcoming legislation. We are being invaded by people from a foreign country, plain and simple. I wonder how long an american flag would fly down in Mexico?

Since most of us do not live in a border state, we have no idea just how this illegal immigration is affecting those states. It is easy to sit back and say what we think should be done, but unless we live it day after day, I don’t think we are in a position to offer constructive criticism. True, illegals migrate to other states, but not in the numbers that are experienced by the border states. It is a problem and needs to be addressed NOW. The fact that our immigration laws have been allowed to be transgressed is a crime.

 

[CinciMom]

mary bobo:

Since most of us do not live in a border state, we have no idea just how this illegal immigration is affecting those states. It is easy to sit back and say what we think should be done, but unless we live it day after day, I don’t think we are in a position to offer constructive criticism. True, illegals migrate to other states, but not in the numbers that are experienced by the border states. It is a problem and needs to be addressed NOW. The fact that our immigration laws have been allowed to be transgressed is a crime.

I live in Ohio which is not a border state, but it does effect where I live. Our town has 40% Hispanic population and an estimated 70% of them are illegal. My husband is from Omaha, Nebraska and they have a huge Hispanic population there too.

I love JD Hayworth and he is right on the money!

 

[Vaclav]

We are being invaded by people from a foreign country, plain and simple.

Why should we not take them in? A church in a community very near to where I work holds a Spanish Mass, which is likely the most well-attended mass in the area. Some of them may well be illegal immigrants, but are they not human beings, with needs?

I frankly do not see the problem. They speak Spanish? That isn’t much of a reason to call them “invaders.”

 

[wabrams]

Vaclav:

I frankly do not see the problem. They speak Spanish? That isn’t much of a reason to call them “invaders.”

No one said they were invaders becuase they speak Spainish; they are invaders because they come here illegally and expect our country to bend to their rules.

 

[sadie2723]

mary bobo:

Since most of us do not live in a border state, we have no idea just how this illegal immigration is affecting those states. It is easy to sit back and say what we think should be done, but unless we live it day after day, I don’t think we are in a position to offer constructive criticism. True, illegals migrate to other states, but not in the numbers that are experienced by the border states. It is a problem and needs to be addressed NOW. The fact that our immigration laws have been allowed to be transgressed is a crime.

Good point. I lived in Florida and we had a lot of illegal Cubans there. Here is the point that we all need to remember. It does not matter how the media spins this thing, the facts are that these people have broken the law. It is a felony to enter this counrty illegally. There can be no “guest worker” plan. We must protect the border of the United States. Nobody gets in this country without going through proper channels.

So, how do we deal with it. You do not go after the illegals. There are too many of them. Here is the plan that Washington does not want to hear. You go after the people that hire the illegals. Per incident, if you are found to be harboring a felon (illegal alien) and employing that person, you get five years in prison and a 250,000 dollar fine. Trust me, if there is no work for these people, they will stop coming here to find it.

 

[Geldain]

wabrams:

No one said they were invaders becuase they speak Spainish; they are invaders because they come here illegally and expect our country to bend to their rules.

You are correct!

 

[TarAshly]

you people have absolutely zero clue what really goes on down there. what it is really like, what they are escaping. and since most people dont leave the tourist traps how could you? there are two books I would recommend to anyone who really wants to grasp the reality of the situation, the first is “Enrique’s Journey” by Sonia Nazario, an American journalist who has a profound grasp on the gravity of the mexican and central american plight. The second is Lives on the Line: Dispatches from the border. you either have to be severly cold hearted or ignorant not to see whats happening to these people and want in some way to help. some of you talk about hispanic populations and how that such a problem?! I dont get it. I live in Houston Texas and the hispanics here add nothing but flavor to our state, we wouldnt be Texas without them. Illegal or Legal, they all have their reasons for coming here, and until the system is made affordable and easier and more mainstreamed we will continue to have death trains, and countless bodies in the desert, and drowning victims the Rio Grande, these truths are unescapable, I do not blame them for coming illegally and I hope they continue to do so, the ones who want to work, the ones who want to earn money for their families should be allowed to come. of course we need to do something to keep the criminals out, but a fence and deportation are not the answer here. The rich ones can come over, but the poor are left to starve, trust me if you can afford to get out of Mexico, most people do.

 

[sadie2723]

TarAshly:

you people have absolutely zero clue what really goes on down there. what it is really like, what they are escaping. and since most people dont leave the tourist traps how could you? there are two books I would recommend to anyone who really wants to grasp the reality of the situation, the first is “Enrique’s Journey” by Sonia Nazario, an American journalist who has a profound grasp on the gravity of the mexican and central american plight. The second is Lives on the Line: Dispatches from the border. you either have to be severly cold hearted or ignorant not to see whats happening to these people and want in some way to help. some of you talk about hispanic populations and how that such a problem?! I dont get it. I live in Houston Texas and the hispanics here add nothing but flavor to our state, we wouldnt be Texas without them. Illegal or Legal, they all have their reasons for coming here, and until the system is made affordable and easier and more mainstreamed we will continue to have death trains, and countless bodies in the desert, and drowning victims the Rio Grande, these truths are unescapable, I do not blame them for coming illegally and I hope they continue to do so, the ones who want to work, the ones who want to earn money for their families should be allowed to come. of course we need to do something to keep the criminals out, but a fence and deportation are not the answer here. The rich ones can come over, but the poor are left to starve, trust me if you can afford to get out of Mexico, most people do.

It is a problem when you work here and reap all of the benefits of citizenship without paying taxes and making a proper contribution. It is also a problem that they are breaking the law to get here.

Brad

 

[Geldain]

I still wonder why the outrage in these immigration discussions are only one way: the US is the bad guy here.

From where I sit, if those who try tug at our heartstrings while calling some “heartless” or “coldhearted” exerted half as much effort to assist Mexicans in improving their own local and federal governments and the local and national economy as they do name calling–we wouldn’t have an immigration issue as we do now.

 

[TarAshly]

Your really need to do some reading my friend. or talk to an immigrant, talk to someone who knows whats really happening. They are reaping very little benefit. They are hired at horrible wages, but these wages are better than what they earn in Mexico, they live in places you wouldnt leave your dog in. They are cheated by land lords, employers, people posing as lawyers and they cant tell anyone or else they risk being deported. they do all of this so their kids can get an education and eat, did you know in Honduras, that school is not free, most people cant send their kids to school because they cant afford it. even in Mexico, education is for the wealthy. They want their kids to have a fighting chance at survival. Like I said, read the book, learn something.

sadie2723:

It is a problem when you work here and reap all of the benefits of citizenship without paying taxes and making a proper contribution. It is also a problem that they are breaking the law to get here.

Brad

 

[TarAshly]

well what would you like me to do? I have worked in the orphanages to help the children, I have written letter to statesmen after statesment after statesmen explaining what I saw in the orphanages and in the city streets. Even so far as to writing a letter to President Bush and President Fox, from Bush I got nothing, from Fox I got a letter thanking me for my time as a student and worker in his “Beautiful” country. I work in my Church food bank, we know that a lot of them are illegals, through the Legion we come across them as well, so I am doing my part, the best I can, but as usual the US seems to have no desire to want to help them out, just keep them out.

Geldain:

I still wonder why the outrage in these immigration discussions are only one way: the US is the bad guy here.

From where I sit, if those who try tug at our heartstrings while calling some “heartless” or “coldhearted” exerted half as much effort to assist Mexicans in improving their own local and federal governments and the local and national economy as they do name calling–we wouldn’t have an immigration issue as we do now.

 

[Vaclav]

I lived in Florida and we had a lot of illegal Cubans there.

Cubans have had a special exemption that allows them refuge once they reach shore. It was only recently that immigration quotas were placed upon Cubans as on other nationalities due to a Cold War policy.Cubans still have a different set of standards under the law due to numerous acts including the CAA 1996.

they are invaders because they come here illegally and expect our country to bend to their rules

That doesn’t make them “invaders,” which is a word that has connotations of trying to conquer a sovereign state.

It is a problem when you work here and reap all of the benefits of citizenship without paying taxes and making a proper contribution. It is also a problem that they are breaking the law to get here.

They clearly do not reap all the benefits of citizenship. Breaking the law is likely their only choice as I doubt we are going to allow all of them entry.

From where I sit, if those who try tug at our heartstrings while calling some “heartless” or “coldhearted” exerted half as much effort to assist Mexicans in improving their own local and federal governments and the local and national economy as they do name calling–we wouldn’t have an immigration issue as we do now.

I never engaged in namecalling, so I’ll assume this is directed elsewhere.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

davy39:

A very good interview! This should be required reading for everybody on this forum, that favors the “come one, come all” border policy we seem to have now. As I said in a previous thread, most of these people are not interested in learing english, signing up for anything, taking background checks, or any of the gibberish proposed in some of the upcoming legislation. We are being invaded by people from a foreign country, plain and simple. I wonder how long an american flag would fly down in Mexico?

From the forum guidelines:

It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs​

It is never acceptable to assume or say you know what another person thinks or needs.​

Why is this acceptable for you?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

sadie2723:

Good point. I lived in Florida and we had a lot of illegal Cubans there. Here is the point that we all need to remember. It does not matter how the media spins this thing, the facts are that these people have broken the law. It is a felony to enter this counrty illegally. There can be no “guest worker” plan. We must protect the border of the United States. Nobody gets in this country without going through proper channels.

So, how do we deal with it. You do not go after the illegals. There are too many of them. Here is the plan that Washington does not want to hear. You go after the people that hire the illegals. Per incident, if you are found to be harboring a felon (illegal alien) and employing that person, you get five years in prison and a 250,000 dollar fine. Trust me, if there is no work for these people, they will stop coming here to find it.

It is NOT a felony to enter or be in the United States unlawfully, it is a civil infraction that is only punishable by deportation. Sorry, try again.

 

[wabrams]

LCMS_No_More:

From the forum guidelines:

It is never acceptable to question the sincerity of an individual’s beliefs​

It is never acceptable to assume or say you know what another person thinks or needs.​

Why is this acceptable for you?

Because he was speaking the truth. Go look at pictures from the protests and interviews with protesters; many were saying it’s already their country and some were saying they shouldn’t have to learn English. Last time amnesty was offered (1987), hardly any of the then 2.5 mil illegal immigrants took it, so I think it’s safe to say a great many won’t take it this time either.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

sadie2723:

It is a problem when you work here and reap all of the benefits of citizenship without paying taxes and making a proper contribution. It is also a problem that they are breaking the law to get here.

Brad

False. They cannot vote. They cannot travel by air. They cannot obtain health insurance or driver licenses. They pay taxes (albeit with false documentation…which would be solved through a normalization process) and social security and will never, ever benefit from it. They are reviled and blamed for all the social problems in the country…

Wanna try again?

 

[wabrams]

LCMS_No_More:

It is NOT a felony to enter or be in the United States unlawfully, it is a civil infraction that is only punishable by deportation. Sorry, try again.

It might be a felony soon.

 

[Wolseley]

Fred Reed, who lives in Guadalajara, makes a very pertinent point on this topic:

"Who then are the emigrants?

For starters, they are not doctors, chemists, and airline pilots. Successful Mexicans do not want to go to the United States. Mexicans who are merely comfortable do not want to go to the United States. They like Mexico. This is very difficult to explain to most Americans, who know beyond doubt that Mexico has lesser malls. But it is a fact.

The Mexicans who go north are the losers, the failures, the barely if at all literate, those with little to offer. They go because the Mexican economy is wretched, because the jobs that left the United States for Mexico are now leaving Mexico for China. Money. The United States can run a first-world economy. Mexico cannot. Why is debatable. The fact isn’t.

While Mexicans are good people, their dregs often are not. On average the immigrants are uncultivated, uneducated, and of low intelligence. One may not mention the matter of intelligence, but it is well known among people who pay attention to such things, and has implications for the future. America is getting those Mexicans least worth getting, the least assimilable, and getting them in circumstances that do not encourage assimilation. Unlikely to prosper, they show signs of becoming another unsalvageable underclass."
(lewrockwell.com/reed/reed43.html)

Just an observation.