Breaking: pope declares troubling interpretation of al ‘authentic magisterium’

[Maximilian75]

You characterize the upholding and sanctity of marriage in the face of the assaults of a society that desparately wants to destroy it as a molehill? Utterly absurd.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m wondering how people defending AL have family members or friends who are in invalid relationships on here hoping the Pope will give them the excuse they need to allow them to receive because they think it’s the easy thing to do and we should just go along with.

I can answer this for myself. I know exactly zero people in this position, whether in my family or not. The only two people in my extended family remotely in such a situation (husband had left wife for another woman) died 25 years ago and they reconciled before they died.

I don’t see AL as giving people a free pass to do what they want. It’s just telling everybody involved to use some common sense, which is likely what’s been going on for decades anyway.

 

[graciew]

Precisely.
This is the Pope,and the Bishops.

Not a bunch of irresponsible and ignorant conspirators .
Not a bunch of inexperienced, out of touch with reality, who do not know their Church " employees"
Let me hold them in my highest and dearest esteem,because I do.
And read Amoris Laetitiae,to begin with,and it will help you out of many of these doubts of yours.
God bless you,Maximilian.

 

[Boler]

You characterize the upholding and sanctity of marriage in the face of the assaults of a society that desparately wants to destroy it as a molehill? Utterly absurd.

Is that what I said? Please stop with the hyperbole.

 

[Maximilian75]

1 Corinthians 11 29

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord

Clear, no?

 

[Boler]

The pope is not referring to people who are “trying to keep people in the dark about their sin”. The pope is not referring to people who have full knowledge and full will. So why are you characterizing it that way?

 

[Maximilian75]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[pnewton]

1 Corinthians 11 29

For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord

Clear, no?

1 Corinthians 11:28
But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

And should we fast before Mass?

1 Corinthians 11:34
But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment.

Just joking. That last was clear proof-texting. The intent is clear that one does not use Communion as a meal. That’s all.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Many priests do this already and do not just hand out communion if they know the person isn’t in a position to receive.

The ones who make “exceptions” didn’t wait and pore over the wording of AL before they started doing it.

 

[Maximilian75]

That examination must be done with the moral teachings of the church in the front of ones mind though.

 

[Boler]

In the majority of situations, yes. But there may be situations where it is not prudent.

That’s not what we’re talking about.

Whole document??

Does it come off as a way to give everyone a free pass? Really? Or is that just more hyperbole and “the sky is falling”?

 

[pnewton]

That examination must be done with the moral teachings of the church in the front of ones mind though.

Yes, and sometimes spending time with a priest as spiritual director can help…
…and we’re back.

 

[graciew]

I will tell you what is mind boggling for me.
This Pope lived following in obedience other Popes.
People like me lived following previous Popes and moreover,taught and learnt to love and respect them,through our Bishops and in turn our priests.
In the case of the Archidiocese of Buenos Aires,under Archbishop Bergoglio,now Pope Francis.
Cardinals chose him at the Conclave…
How can anyone think this was a jungle /free-pass anarchy under our Archbishop and the Conclave chose an unknown chaotic anarchist?
He had a long story behind him and presided CELAM also…
The fact that the Pope is an unknown character or was for many,doesn t mean that he was unknown to the Conclave…
What kind of concept does one have of the Cardinals at the Conclave also?
AL is the fruit of Synods,not a game…
It is enough that he is the Vicar of Christ.
He was chosen by our own Church. In all her wisdom and love.and prayer and trust in the Holy Spirit .
This is sharing but I really think of this too…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I see it the same way that sentencing laws might let a judge use discretion in sentencing, rather than give a mandatory sentence. It doesn’t mean the judge will let all the defendants who committed felonies just get away with their crimes. It does mean the judge has some leeway to be more lenient in a case he considers difficult or unfair.

The only difference here is that if the judge in court lets a felon go, that could cause a serious harm to society and/ or to other people if he reoffends. By contrast, if your neighbor receives communion when they shouldn’t (at least in your opinion), this impacts your own spiritual life not at all, and isn’t likely to have a big effect on anyone else except the neighbor himself.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Their political positions say otherwise.

Just more appeal to authority, and my guess is a lot of excuse-making to boot.

Which BTW doesn’t fool anyone

 

[Boler]

In certain “complex circumstances” it may not be prudent. It is entirely possible that there are lives in such an innocently tangled mess to which a priest may be more prudent to temporarily leave in a state of merely material sin rather than attempting a potentially futile and shattering rebuke.

Then they are clearly and directly contradicting the pope. And again, I caution you against similarly mischaracterizing him. I share your concern of the potential for abuse, but that’s not license to skew things.

 

[SuperLuigi]

this impacts your own spiritual life not at all, and isn’t likely to have a big effect on anyone else except the neighbor himself.

Ah, the usual American liberal rhetoric “how does it affect you” line. Heard that with just about every sexual sin, and now people are being forced to use made-up words and participate in invalid weddings which in some cases last less than 2 years.

 

[SuperLuigi]

None of the commentary surrounding this is surprising in the least. People just don’t take the Faith seriously enough and that’s exactly why the Church bleeds out members and money everyday.

The following factors:

1. Censorship. This technique is used by radical left-wing SJWs.
2. Excuse-making
3. Lack of knowledge about basic human incentive. This is the primary reason for all of the appeal to authority. For those who don’t understand, it’s “because Vatican said so” and that’s how the Protestants “lost” the culture war.

 

[graciew]

This is a particular perspective of all those who prefer to wear political glasses through which to see people.
That would be your problem to deal with,not the Pope’s.
The political and the labels is so entrenched that is seems very hard if not impossible to watch life without them for very many.
Many barely cannot speak without saying liberal,conservative,right,left,and the list gets to the unbearable…
Take them off and perhaps you can see nobody is trying to fool you.
If you want…

 

[TOmNossor]

In the majority of situations, yes. But there may be situations where it is not prudent.

In certain “complex circumstances” it may not be prudent. It is entirely possible that there are lives in such an innocently tangled mess to which a priest may be more prudent to temporarily leave in a state of merely material sin rather than attempting a potentially futile and shattering rebuke.

Sin is sin because it is damaging to us. Ignorance of sin MAY reduce sin from Mortal to Venial, but it does not change the fact that sin is damaging to humans and creates distance between man and God.
I believe it is a huge error to suggest that keeping folks ignorant of their sin in ANY situation is what a confessor/pastor/priest should do.
I also do not see AL as suggesting that pastoral care involves keeping people ignorant of their sins.
AL claims that some folks in irregular relationships may lack sufficient “deliberate consent” such that their adultery is a mortal sin and in those situation partaking of the Eucharist is not prohibited. This position may be problematic, but it is not as problematic IMO as the intentional darkness (ignorance) advocated in the passages quoted.
Charity, TOm