Breaking the door

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laszlo

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I my territorial parish when the RCIA candidates are coming to the Holy Mass, they are required to pound loudly on the door, as if they would want to break in.

Is it some required ritual, or just a specialty in this particular Church?
 
Pretty sure it’s not required - they don’t do that in my church but I have heard of it before. Do they do that every single time? How disturbing I would find that!

:eek:
 
TheRealJuliane said:
Pretty sure it’s not required - they don’t do that in my church but I have heard of it before. Do they do that every single time? How disturbing I would find that!

:eek:
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I am not sure, I believe this is only on the first time.

My wife was shocked when she learned that they had to do that. In our world the ‘acting out’ (speaking on tongues) was abandoned in the time of St Paul (1 Cor 14), and replaced by the solid teaching. She born as Lutheran and recently converted to Catholic, she was prepared for the Confession and Holy Communion in very rational way, she needs only confirmation.

She will survive somehow this in Saturday night, and will come with me on Sunday to our Church, where Jesus Christ is the center.
 
If I am understanding it right, it is probably intended to show their desire to become members of the Ecclesial community.

I can tell you it is not required, but if you think about it in the right light (kind of squinty with your head cocked just right) you will see that it is a pretty good physical show of what should be occurring interiorly with regard to the faith.

If it upsets your wife, have her talk to the priest privately about it, then suffer through it. Its only a moment on the journey.
 
Our parish has the candidates do this. Knocking on the door and asking permission to be received in.

It was part of the Rite of Initiation in the Early Church.

google.com/search?q=rite+of+initiation+early+church+knocking+on+door&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

"This is the first rite that takes place at the beginning of the general Sunday Mass in front of the parish community.

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_Christian_Initiation_of_Adults

"The outline of this Rite is as follows [Paragraphs 48 - 68]:

Receiving the Candidates

Greeting (often with the RCIA teacher knocking at the door of the church and asking the congregation to allow the Catechumens to enter)

Open Dialogue

Candidates First Acceptance of the Gospel

Affirmation by the Sponsors and the Assembly

Signing of the Candidates with the Cross:
  • Signing of the Forehead
  • [Signing of the Other Senses] - optional
  • Concluding Prayer "
 
Why feel bad about this? We turn off the lights of the parish and light candles during Easter Vigil. There are many symbolisms in our faith, we should learn them and appreciate them.
 
Barbkw said:
From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_Christian_Initiation_of_Adults

Greeting (often with the RCIA teacher knocking at the door of the church and asking the congregation to allow the Catechumens to enter)
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This makes a big difference. If the RCIA teacher knocks in the door asking humbly for acceptance, and this is answered by the priest, the representative of the hierarchy, that is according to the Christian faith: the grace, including the acceptance to the Church is gift, given by God and his representatives; and not some right to be demanded.

If all the candidates pound on the door as if requesting their right, that is an attempt to change the faith about our insufficiency and God’s grace, it is an attempt to disseminate the concept of the people’s Church.

Lex credendi ==> lex orandi. This was the original Christian principle. The Christian faith is based on the teaching of Jesus Christ on only on that, the community just received that, not formed that.

In the end of the 19th Century the modernist reversed that: Lex orandi => Lex credendi; according to them the primary was the common prayer, the liturgy, and that formed the faith and even the New Testament books…

This is what they are using now too: change the rituals, to influence the change in the faith.

It is unfortunate that some traditionalist are using this upside down sequence (lex orandi lex credendi) too. In the Christian faith the center is Jesus Christ, his (written and oral) teaching determines the faith and the faith shall determine the rites.

No rite opposing the faith, in this case the role of the hierarchy, shall be allowed.
 
Rites are actions of commitment and spoken vows. An establishment of connection between the parish and the new converts.

In a large Church, the knocks upon the doors need to be loud in order to be heard.

I believe our RCIA instructor has all the candidates knock in unison upon the door in a combined effort. Everyone within the parish hears their request and turns to witness their entrance.
 
Barbkw said:
Rites are actions of commitment and spoken vows. An establishment of connection between the parish and the new converts.
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I rather go with the definition of our Pope (Spirit of Liturgy):

Rites are rules set by the Church controlling the worship.

The Church here is the Apostolic See and the National Conferences of the Bishops with the approval of the Apostolic See, as the XXI Ecumenical Council clearly defined. The role of the parish is to obey, to make rites in parish level is abuse.

Does anyone has access to 1976(?) document establishing the RCIA, and the initiation rite?
 
The zeal of the first Christians is the standard by which we all should guide our own conversions toward Christ.

For well over 200 years, the first converts to Christianity meet secretly in catacombs.

These faith filled Christian converts were hunted, imprisoned, tortured and killed.

In imitation of their spirit, catechumens / candidates are asked to display a zeal for Christ.
 
laszlo said:
I my territorial parish when the RCIA candidates are coming to the Holy Mass, they are required to pound loudly on the door, as if they would want to break in.

Is it some required ritual, or just a specialty in this particular Church?
Click to expand...
Knocking at the door is in several rites of the Roman Church:
  1. Candidates asking to enter the Church knock at the door, usually with a hammer
  2. A new bishop or abbot also has to knock at the door, with a hammer
  3. In some religious communities the new postulants must knock at the door
In the USA the rite for the candidates is optional. I’m not sure why it’s optional in the USA. I would imagine that it’s not the only country where it’s optional. I did see it used at St. Peter’s too. I had never seen it, though I had read about it. They use a huge hammer-like thing. Heck, those are huge doors.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
Knocking at the door is in several rites of the Roman Church:
  1. Candidates asking to enter the Church knock at the door, usually with a hammer
  2. A new bishop or abbot also has to knock at the door, with a hammer
  3. In some religious communities the new postulants must knock at the door
In the USA the rite for the candidates is optional. I’m not sure why it’s optional in the USA. I would imagine that it’s not the only country where it’s optional. I did see it used at St. Peter’s too. I had never seen it, though I had read about it. They use a huge hammer-like thing. Heck, those are huge doors.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Would you so kind to provide reference to the sources?
 
laszlo said:
Would you so kind to provide reference to the sources?
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Go to the Rite for Christian Initiation of Adults. It’s in the ritual itself. As I said, to the best of my knowledge, in the USA it’s not a requirement.

Go to the Rite for Installation for an Archbishop or an Abbot. That is still in effect for the USA.

As to the religious postulant, that is going to be in the ritual for each religious community. The major religious orders have their own rituals: Franciscans, Dominicans, Benedictines, Carmelites, Carthusians, O’Praem, Jesuits and Augustinians.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Barbkw said:
Our parish has the candidates do this. Knocking on the door and asking permission to be received in.

It was part of the Rite of Initiation in the Early Church.

google.com/search?q=rite+of+initiation+early+church+knocking+on+door&rlz=1I7ADBR_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7

"This is the first rite that takes place at the beginning of the general Sunday Mass in front of the parish community.

From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_Christian_Initiation_of_Adults

"The outline of this Rite is as follows [Paragraphs 48 - 68]:

Receiving the Candidates

Greeting (often with the RCIA teacher knocking at the door of the church and asking the congregation to allow the Catechumens to enter)

Open Dialogue

Candidates First Acceptance of the Gospel

Affirmation by the Sponsors and the Assembly

Signing of the Candidates with the Cross:
  • Signing of the Forehead
  • [Signing of the Other Senses] - optional
  • Concluding Prayer "
Click to expand...
That’s correct…or at least what is supposed to happen this Sunday for us. I was baptized Catholic, had first Holy Communion…but wasn’t confirmed.

But…there is only one person in our group that knocks on the door…and only loud enough for the congregation to hear…and it isn’t me…😃
 
Annabelle_Marie said:
That’s correct…or at least what is supposed to happen this Sunday for us. I was baptized Catholic, had first Holy Communion…but wasn’t confirmed.

But…there is only one person in our group that knocks on the door…and only loud enough for the congregation to hear…and it isn’t me…😃
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Bold is mine.

:rotfl:

I should hope that only one person knocks on the door. Can you imagine this group of people beating down the door? :eek:

To be honest, I did not know that it was still done in the USA. I’ve never seen it here. I’ve seen it abroad. There is a beautiful symbolism involved.

I hope that you and your classmates have a beautiful ceremony. BTW, if the door is glass, take it easy on the knocking. 😃 I don’t think that they had glass doors when this was instituted.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
We do the Rite of Acceptance by the door but we don’t knock, although I have seen it done here in the USA. In our church the doors are very thick and I don’t think anyone would hear someone knocking (I guess that is why they use a hammer). The symbolism is very strong however. They are asking to be let in…they are not coming in simply on their own without an invite. The priest has to allow then entrance, just like anyone would have to allow someone in who is knocking on the front door of their home. Also, one of the first questions asked is the person’s name and what they want, also showing that they have to be let in based on their answers and the fact that they have someone with them to vouch for them, so to speak (AKA a sponsor).

However, since most of the inquirers have been in church already and are probably attending Mass, this is not the first time entering the Church, so it can lose some meaning. Still the symbolism on entering is there and it is very dramatic and gets the attention of those inside the church.

This is also why in the baptism of an infant, it should begin in the vestibule of the Church symbolizing first entrance into the Church.
 
JReducation said:
I should hope that only one person knocks on the door. Can you imagine this group of people beating down the door? :eek:

To be honest, I did not know that it was still done in the USA. I’ve never seen it here. I’ve seen it abroad. There is a beautiful symbolism involved.

I hope that you and your classmates have a beautiful ceremony. BTW, if the door is glass, take it easy on the knocking. 😃 I don’t think that they had glass doors when this was instituted.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Thanks! There is quite a group in my RCIA class…and the doors are glass…😃

I’m just worried about the parish not understanding why I will stay for the Eucharist and not go to early dismissal…
 
I’m a symbolism nut and I have to say I think this is one of the most beautiful things I have ever heard.

I can also say that as a person entering the Catholic Church as an adult, you’d better be ready to pound on that door for all you are worth…

…because the angry mob behind you that’s trying to pull you away from it is not going to let up and relent easily.

I love this physical example of coming into the Church from the outside - if only they supplied a mob of angry Protestants, Aethists, and family members on the other end to grab at you and pull you away! 😃
 
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