Breast augmentation

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DaveBj said:
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HomeschoolDad:
They have been nothing but a pain in the tuchas for 41 years!
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Did they perhaps put the crowns in the wrong place? Asking for a friend.
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You know, now that you mention it, I have always had a deep-seated feeling that there just wasn’t something quite right about that procedure…

I suppose the tooth will come out in the end…

At that point, I’d better leave it alone, both for reasons of good taste, and to avoid the dreaded “off-topic police”. I’ve noticed a few times, during particularly heated discussions when someone gets offended, all of a sudden my posts start getting tagged left and right for being “off-topic” — I’m an old-school raconteur, never could resist a good story, and I guess that’s a problem for some.

As I said the other day, when I become rich and famous, I’ve a mind to start my own blog (“ourvirtualparish.com”?), same basic idea as CAF, but with free-flowing discussions allowed, possibly, as the nuns used to tell the teenage couples at school dances, “leave room for the Holy Ghost”.

Or I might just buy Newsmax. Oh, wait…


Good-night :sleeping_bed:
 
HomeschoolDad said:
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DaveBj:
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HomeschoolDad:
…pain in the tuchas …!
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You know, now that you mention it, I have always had a deep-seated feeling that there just wasn’t something quite right about that procedure…

I suppose the tooth will come out in the end…

At that point, I’d better leave it alone, both for reasons of good taste, and to avoid the dreaded “off-topic police”. I’ve noticed a few times, during particularly heated discussions when someone gets offended, all of a sudden my posts start getting tagged left and right for being “off-topic” — I’m an old-school raconteur
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So you’re saying you’re just a big ham?
 
I have no clue about the catholic moral perspective on this tbh, just on a personal thought though. Every surgery is a risk. When I think about someone opening themselves up there would need to be a good reason.

Additionally it seems like a vain/carnal type of endeavor. Could there be other reasons, possibly… but I honestly can’t think of any at the moment.

Finally we are stewards of Gods gifts…money in this case (and our body). Is this the best use of funds? To me it would be much more healthy to spend it on the poor, taking a class to better yourself, sponsoring a child for college… or even travel… my guess is she would feel better and not care so much about these things.

Total opinion on my part.
 
Servant31 said:
Additionally it seems like a vain/carnal type of endeavor. Could there be other reasons, possibly… but I honestly can’t think of any at the moment.

Finally we are stewards of Gods gifts…money in this case (and our body). Is this the best use of funds?
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Couldn’t that just as easily apply to a person who buys a Brooks Brothers suit or tie? Invariably, he/she could more equitably leverage funds for another purpose. Ultimately, it’s up to each person to evaluate how funds are spent.
 
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I don’t see it as equivalent honestly. I think you bring up a great point, and I do think a lot depends on the intent of the individual. However with breast implants they don’t have many uses other than lust. A suit could be used for interviews, or other occasions not related solely to sexual reasons. Also a suit can be removed easily, and doesn’t require surgery to accomplish.

Again all my opinion, I would be curious to hear actual doctrine on this.
 
Servant31 said:
However with breast implants they don’t have many uses other than lust.
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That’s a pretty short -sighted view. Men in Western culture think of breasts as objects of lust. Women may think of them as body parts, and simply want their body to look a certain way, without being focused on turning men on. Some women don’t like the effect of age or illness on their bust, and some women might have always wanted a certain kind of figure that they didn’t naturally get. Women’s clothing is also often made in a manner that expects a woman to have two similarly sized, reasonably upright breasts, and if you don’t have that for any reason it might be difficult to look good in certain clothing styles without some kind of prosthesis or implant.

I don’t doubt that some women are motivated by wanting to look good for men, but to claim that a woman’s body parts don’t have any use other than lust is denigrating to the woman inhabiting that body. It’s her body. It’s not the property or concern of some man. Her body may have a physical or psychological effect on her without a man needing to be in the picture.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
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Servant31:
However with breast implants they don’t have many uses other than lust.
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That’s a pretty short -sighted view. Men in Western culture think of breasts as objects of lust. Women may think of them as body parts, and simply want their body to look a certain way, without being focused on turning men on. Some women don’t like the effect of age or illness on their bust, and some women might have always wanted a certain kind of figure that they didn’t naturally get. Women’s clothing is also often made in a manner that expects a woman to have two similarly sized, reasonably upright breasts, and if you don’t have that for any reason it might be difficult to look good in certain clothing styles without some kind of prosthesis or implant.

I don’t doubt that some women are motivated by wanting to look good for men, but to claim that a woman’s body parts don’t have any use other than lust is denigrating to the woman inhabiting that body. It’s her body. It’s not the property or concern of some man. Her body may have a physical or psychological effect on her without a man needing to be in the picture.
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A point very well made, with the articulateness and intelligence I have come to admire in your writings. We may not always see eye-to-eye on each and every subject that comes up in these forums, but you do an excellent job of stating your point, and stating it very well.

Your comments above were something that simply had to be said by someone, and not to let the comment about “don’t have many uses other than lust” just go by without objection. I was similarly rankled by it.
 
I’m really uncomfortable with the idea because I think it means your wife has some body issues. I mean NO offense by that, but I think I’m right. People who are generally happy with their bodies don’t undergo drastic plastic surgeries.

Now, having said that, just because I’m uncomfortable with that hardly means it’s immoral or against Catholic teaching.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
That’s a pretty short -sighted view.
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I disagree. If a woman wants to have breast augmentation surgery, that’s her prerogative. But from a purely spiritual perspective what other functions do increased breast size have (I’m asking)? You stated that clothes hang more to their liking, I hadn’t considered this. It’s an interesting point. As I stated in response to another poster I’m guessing the morality depends on the intent of the person. But I also wouldn’t, myself, plan on rhinoplasty without a compelling reason (reduced airflow, being a significant social outlier).

But breast augmentation is also not like cleft palate surgery, which has both a cosmetic, but also a significant biological function as well. Or liposuction which has a cosmetic component, but also the physiological function of reducing blood sugar, BMI, and all the associated risk factors which go with it. I didn’t say “any” uses, I said “many” uses, I probably should have thought that part through more before stating it. But there are risks associated with any surgery.

I have the “long view” in mind making this statement. We are called to care for our bodies, also our money, and to store treasures in heaven. I think it depends heavily on the intent of the person, but it’s worth thinking through.
 
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Servant31 said:
But from a purely spiritual perspective what other functions do increased breast size have (I’m asking)?
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That’s up to the woman involved. You’d have to ask them and take a poll.

I think I said all that needs to be said in my last response. If you want to continue with a view that to me is shortsighted and borderline offensive, that’s your prerogative. I don’t feel it needs any further discussion.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Women’s clothing is also often made in a manner that expects a woman to have two similarly sized, reasonably upright breasts, and if you don’t have that for any reason it might be difficult to look good in certain clothing styles without some kind of prosthesis or implant.
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But really that’s nothing a mid-price push-up bra or air bra can’t fix.
 
Maybe some women don’t want to be bothered with that. Maybe some would rather have an actual breast than a prosthesis. The prosthesis might be uncomfortable. It might remind them of traumatic events when they have to put it on and take it off.

You can’t assume that just because you think it’s no big deal, the woman in the situation thinks it’s no big deal. People often have emotional reactions involving their bodies. I personally probably wouldn’t have plastic surgery but I can understand why other people sometimes do. And it’s not alway about being an object of someone else’s lust.
 
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I have always seen implanted breast augmentations similar to joint replacements in that they need to be replaced. When a person is young it could be that will need many surgeries over their lifetime whether it be a joint replacement or implant replacement.

There are other types of breast augmentation such a autologous fat transfer or autologous fat-grafting. However like implants they too have their risks.
 
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I thought this over last night. I don’t appreciate you characterizing my argument as saying
Tis_Bearself said:
but to claim that a woman’s body parts don’t have any use other than lust is denigrating to the woman inhabiting that body. It’s her body. It’s not the property or concern of some man.
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To me this stands as a straw man, that’s not what I meant at all. I think I could have worded it better, and thought it through more regarding the way it would be perceived, surely. And I apologize if it came off as anything other than respectful.

But then again you could have interpreted it better as well. The last thing I want to do is be “telling anyone what to do with their body”, or “women’s bodied are only for lust”. I tried to explain it but then you continue with.
Tis_Bearself said:
I think I said all that needs to be said in my last response. If you want to continue with a view that to me is shortsighted and borderline offensive, that’s your prerogative. I don’t feel it needs any further discussion.
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The typical throw a grenade, and then run off. That’s what I find offensive. This may gain you a few forum likes, but I don’t appreciate it. I would appreciate it in the future if you consider others’ opinions as something other than immediately malicious. Like I have done for you, repeatedly…and repeatedly…and repeatedly…for…years.

Now I have nothing more to say. Best.
 
I have know women who have had augmentation and reductions. As long as it is done for medical/cosmetic/psychological/self confidence in appearance reasons, I don’t have an issue. Of course as with anything, there is the value it brings to the person. My opinion would be that it should be as natural looking as possible - not to the extreme. As long as the family can afford it and not impact others, go ahead.
 
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